Question For Connecting Double Lever Control Valve

[ampa]

<>Your the man J_J...... and know way more about hydraulics than I'll ever know.....but I'm learnin' alot these last few days from you and others on TBN here..isn't this why these forums are here in the first place..and I think I'm very lucky to have clever people like you J_J around to take time and help with these little hurdles we sometimes get hung up on.

<> As for the return..... the large steel line seems to remain intact from my veiw point of a diagram that Donnie posted earlier....this return was never ever mentioned as bein' spliced into the control valve......but then again..... what do I know....so I'll ask you about this as well <>

<<<>>>Once again J_J I'll give credit where it's due....Thank you kind sir...take care______Ampa :thumbsup:<>

 

[ampa]

<>Your the man J_J...... and know way more about how hydraulics work than I'll ever know.... thanks to you sir .....I've learned alot these last two weeks from you J_J and OP..isn't this why these forums are put here in the first place..and I think I'm very lucky to have clever people like you J_J to take time to help with these little hurdles we sometimes get hung up on.

<> As for the return..... the large steel line seems to remain intact from my veiw point of a diagram that Donnie posted earlier....this return was never ever mentioned as bein' spliced into the control valve......but then again..... what do I know....so I'll ask you about this as well<>

<<<>>>Once again J_J I'll give credit where it's due....Thank you kind sir...and take care______Ampa :thumbsup:

 

[J_J]

The return line/hose or tank line, goes back to tank with little pressure. If it is large enough, it can carry the fluid from more than one valve. That is the one line you can tee into. The purpose in teeing into existing hose/lines, is to keep things to a minimum, and have one hose going to the tank inlet. .

 

[DonnieP]

On the top of your valve there are four ports, two for each handle, two are labeled A and B - plumb these to your double acting cyclinder. Then the two beside them are for the other valve, plumb one of them to the single acting valve and plug the last port. (Have a look at the picture on the second posting.) Give that a try, and if you're popping the safety too much you can plumb the plugged port into the 'T' line.

 

[DonnieP]

Ampa,

I was looking for something else in Princess Auto and came across these 'additions' for the BM20 valves. One is the 'Single Acting Spool'. This maybe just what you need for the valve you're using on the blade hoist. I see they have a 'motor spool', don't know what is different about that.

http://www.princessauto.com/view-all-products-in-shop?keyword1=bm20

Info on spool: http://www.blbhydraulic.it/codici/560076.html

 

[ampa]

Hi Donnie....the valve you mentioned is for hydraulic motors....these are installed for someone buildin' a tracked crawler.....I think....if it was for my application it would have mentioned ram or cylinder.

I don't know if there is a difference between a ram or cylinder...I gather it
can be called either...maybe someone else can chime in here.

J_J has given us lots of info...so it shouldn't be too much longer before we have our hydraulic projects completed......at the moment I'm in no great hurry......as I'm down to the nitty gritty on funds,

looks like I'll have break open my piggy bank.......I just noticed PRINCESS AUTO has a sale on a 5 amp 4" Hitachi grinder for only $29.

I picked up my 3 QD today also on sale.... both the male and female ends....I'll need some help on where to install these.

maybe bring the rubber HP hose to the front of the tractor and add short hoes to the two rams/cylinders I guess....I'm wonderin' if there is a bracket available to mount to the side of the tractor 3 or 4 QD.....if not I have a 1/4" piece of aluminum I could make up my own bracket..... first I'll check if one is available.

It's a real pain in the butt to run out of money before the projects even half finished........gettin' the info ahead of time helps alot.....anyhow Donnie.... keep goin'.....I'll just have to tag along behind for a bit.....till I find something to sell.....

I'll take some more pics of my progress up to to-day...I done some more work on the plough and I'm goin' back down to the garage to do some manual hack sawin'....it's good exercise for the hands....

would you believe I'm usin' a couple of mini hack saws from PRINCESS AUTO.....I thought I'll be sawin' till Christmas....but I got fooled only took me a couple of minutes to cut what I needed to

it's no fun bein' on a fixed government pention.....I worked all my life....just didn't stay at one place too long....bein' a truck driver of straight single and double axle rigs....

I had to shift around from place to place.....although at the time I was licenced to drive tractor trailers...it wasn't my bag....too much responsibility for me and too dangerous....anyhow enough about what I should and shouldn't have done that chance is gone forever.....take care....Ampa

 

[ampa]

Hi J_J.....the large return is connected from the front engine mounted hydraulic pump straight back to the rear axle internal tank....so you would suggest I tee into this line. Hmmmm. I need a diagram shownin' how to do this...what! about the the HP line(small 12 mm ).....

doesn't this one go into the inlet port .....and the other cut off end from the axle into the tank outlet port on the side of the valve to complete the circuit like in (electrical circuit)....

I don't know how else to explain it....this can become confusin' after a while....but don't worry us old soaks/folks will get it sooner or later...it just takes longer to sink in J_J.....

my memory is failin' me...to-night I laid something down and could not find it no where....I happened to look under an old cloth I had just wiped my hands on before supper and there it was....my work bench looks like a toranado recently struck it.... lets face it ....I'm just a messy untidy forgetful old man.....for now thanks a bunch J_J and take care......Ampa

 

[J_J]

Do not confuse the large suction hose with the return hose. The return hose from the valve is the one you want to tee into.

 

[ampa]

I don't knowif this good news or bad news on my part !....stat the bad news first....which is.... the Myers ram/cylinder I bought is for a 1/4 " or more heavy gauge steel 7'-8' snowblade designed for a heavy duty 4x4 pickup truck....

My little ATV 4' made from approx 1/8" gauge does not have enough weight to pull down the Ram/cylinder even with all my 145 lbs standin' on it......so back to PRINCESS AUTO and get a double actionram/cylinder.

.....now I'll be usin' two double action rams/cylinders....and usin' all 4 ports....so maybe this will remove all the confusin' thats been a sort of an issue from the start of my hydraulic setup....

I finished up cuttin' and drillin' then connectin' the hoist frame(short boom) and this is when I found out I had added problems with the Myers ram/cylinder....anyway guys I'm off to return the ram and buy another QD...cause I only bought 3.....maybe everything will come together now with the new changes....

just posted two Pics of the new double action ram/cylinder plus the completed chain lift (short boom setup) ( as you can see I still need to weld the side brackets....plus 2 pic's of the 4 fitting QD bracket..... first QD fitting is installed the others are just sitting on the 1/4" aluminum plate....I forgot to pick up the other 3 swivel connection fittings.....I never dreamed there were so many extra parts to buy...seems like it's never ending.....take care<<<>>>>>>Ampa

 

[ampa]

<>The young guy at Princess Auto told me yesterday.....that with the double lever control valve I bought from them ....I will have to use the side input and ouput and tee off the end two after the A+B back into the system.....he didn't know my tractor all ready had a factory equipped workable internal hydraulic system....till I mentioned it to him yesterday.

<>Is it safe to take his advice....he finishes his classes this week for his lengthy course on hydralics...meaning he's now a qaulified hydraulic engineer <> .....if you guys think he's givin' me the correct info...let me know....

To me he's still just a kid...I do think he knows a little more than the other guy who works in the same dept....just my opinion or 2 cents....who am I to judge these young people of today... by rights...they still know tons more than I'll ever know.....did you notice.....I just learned recently how to break up my paragraphs <> Hmmmmmm <> ......take care guys<<<<<>>>>Ampa

 

[DonnieP]

I don't know what you mean by "tee off the end two after the A+B back into the system". There are four ports in the centre of the valve, One is labeled A and one is labeled B. A will go to one end of one cyclinder, B will go to other end of same cyclinder. Two are not labeled, the one to the right of A will go to one end of the other cyclinder and the one to the right of B will go to the other end of that same cyclinder. That's your four output ports.

Now the supply pressure can go in either the top port labeled P or the side port beside it. It's the same port, stick a pencil in one hole and you can see it's the same, your choice, what ever one fits best the installation. Plumb this back to the supply side of the line you're cutting the chunk out of and plug the other.

The T or Tank fitting on top is tied directly to the side fitting beside it, a pencil is too big to fit in the slot, stick a darning needle or a crochet hook in it and you can see it's the same. If you're going to hook it up WITHOUT Power Beyond, then take either back to the other end of the line that you cut the piece out of and plug the other.

If you're going to hook it up WITH Power Beyond, you have to buy a Power Beyond adapter, and install that in the side port. The line from the Power Beyond adapter will have to go back to the line you cut the chunk out of., You will have to run a third line, this one from the T port on top and Tee it into the return line. You will have to find that return line and put a tee in it. What I am going to do with mine is the return line goes into a 90 deg elbow into the transmission case, I will remove the 90 deg elbow and put a tee in it's place so I don't have to cut anything.

Donnie

 

[J_J]

If I remember right, you don't have a return hose now, so you have to run a hose from the new valve to the tank.reservoir. Even though you said you are not going to be using the 3pt, the fluid from the new valve could pass through the 3pt system, but you still have the 3pt valve, and if you accidental raise it, and leave it there, the 3pt valve will start to relieve.

You could bypass the 3pt and in this case you don't need the PB, and could just plug it. Just run a hose from the return port on the new valve to tank/reservoir. When you are finished with everything, write and copy everything that you have done so the next person that gets your tractor can figure things out, and redo everything to original.

When you are finished, you may have something like this. If no 3pt, pump output fluid would go to the new valve, and out the T/return port new hose to tank. There will be no or very little pressure on the return line to tank. Plug the PB port.

You can use the PB port if the 3pt is still in the circuit. The PB out would connect to the 3pt line that you cut, and a hose from T port to tank/.reservoir.

Instead of plugging the extra P port, why not add a 3000 psi gage.

 

[ampa]

I've inclosed the same pic of my tractors hydraulics...the system my tractor came equipped with when I bought it.....the only lines I can see is the small one and the big one....here is not a 3rd......I'm not familar with other tractors.....like Kubota e.t.c.....maybe these have two small lines and the one large one....this large one is the one I think I'm confusing as the return....as it is connect to the one and only front hydraulic pump and runs from the pump back into the hydraulic system....

now J_J referred this as the suction line on one of his many replies on tryin' to help me get this issue ironed out in my confused brain of mine.....thanks J_J I appreciate your patience up to this point...but with me it's just not sinking in....then I have those young fellas at Princess Auto telling me their side of it....I think maybe a true driagram of what I need to do.....usin'....the pic I just posted to this reply.....I think if I see the way it's got to be connected then it will sink into this memory losin'/confused brain of mine....

Thanks a bunch guys for all your patience on this hydraulic issue....I Finally managed to do some wire weldin' with my new little 120 volt Lincoln 125....the first try was terrible....as I had the feed set to 8....."wow"....I had a weld that looked like a moutain....I then set it to about 2 the control set to E ......mine has ABCD and E if I remember correctly....

so I'm not sure if I have it on the highest settin' or the lowest.....it seem to have a strong arc and the sound was there....like that kind of steady sizzle sound....I first had to dust the cobwebs off it....but after the final adjusting....

it done a great job....well at least I'm happy with it.....thats if it holds up..... I was able to see the puddle and looked like I was creatin' a bead......anyhow this info be best left to the weldin' forum.....I'll go bug them with my issues on this wire weldin' crash course......I may become a home do it welder after all....I really like my new DC 125 Lincoln....take care guys<<<<<>>>>>Ampa<> :thumbsup:

 

[J_J]

Here is my recommendations. Obtain two fittings for the small hyd line from the pump. Install the two fittings, one to put on the cut line going back to the 3pt. Cap that small line going back to the 3pt, since you will not be using it.

The other fitting should connect to the small pressure line from the pump. If you will not be using high pressure downstream, plug the PB port.

Obtain a 3000 psi pressure hose that will have fittings to connect to the pressure line fitting, and then connect the other end to the "P" port on the valve. Either add a gage to the other "P" port, or plug it. Obtain 4 hoses for the work ports of the valve to the hyd cylinders up front. Obtain a return hose, could be the same pressure of the other pressure hose. The return hose connects to the "T" port, and goes back to the tank/reservoir.

If you are going to use the 3pt for anything, do this.

Install the PB sleeve, and connect a 3000 psi hose. The other end of the hose from the PB port, will go to the fitting that you installed and will carry hyd fluid to the 3pt. Install a 3000 psi return hose from the "T" port to the tank/reservoir, this will carry the expended fluid from the cylinders.. After connecting hoses to the front cylinders , the circuit will be complete.

Just a basic circuit below.

 

[David Devuono]

I would like to see some more pictures of the side of your tractor plumbing. You said you had a lever to control flow for your 3pth that you removed. Before you go cutting any lines (princess auto told me they only crimp fittings on new hose) make sure that you don't have a selector valve. I have a little 12 hp Kubota and it had a lever that switched fluid between the 3PTH and what ever you connect to the plugged port. I used that to supply my 2 spool valve and then used the tranny fill plug location to return fluid. Princess Auto had all the fittingsl

 

[David Devuono]

What kind of tractor is it. Look for a lever that you don't use that has a plugged port on the transmission housing. I would bet that 4x4 tractor that looks very similar to my Kubota already has a provision to connect remote hydraulics.

 

[ampa]

What kind of tractor is it. Look for a lever that you don't use that has a plugged port on the transmission housing. I would bet that 4x4 tractor that looks very similar to my Kubota already has a provision to connect remote hydraulics.

<> Hi David....the tractor in question is a greymarket BOLENS/ISEKI G174 3cyl. diesel 4x4 for which I've owned for about the past 3 years.this is a great little tractor...the 4 wheel drive is the cats meow....there has not ever been a problem with clearin' snow no matter how deep or wet e.t.c......and you know as well as I we get all kinds of bad snow storms.....okay I'll make this short....last 3 winters I used a 12 volt cheap CANADIAN TIRE winch....always had a problem bein' way too slow plus breakin' the cable...this year I bought a brand new ATV type
48"snowblade.....much better qaulity/built than the 42" CRAFTSMAN snowblade

I sold this 42" CRAFTSMAN snowblade and winch plus a small lawn tractor a week before we moved into this townhouse complex....this winter I decieded to tap into the old ISEKI's hydraulics....as well as bein' an exspensive venture over the 12 volt electric winch....it's also gave me a bad headace and lots of problems...but I'm not about to give up at this point...in fact I'm goin' to PRINCESS AUTO today and buy the other cylinder/ram for the second stage operation(snowblade angle) I'll be posting pic's as I go....this is goin' to be one very long issue...I first had this hydraulic issue posted on the greymarket ISEKI forum....

I was told my best bet was to post my hydraulic problems and issues here....so here I am...I'm going to follow the basic diagram J_J posted for me....my tractor has only one small diameter 12 mm. steel P line from the hydraulic pump(which is mounted on the front left side of the engine and goes directly back to and into the rear axle of this tractor...the 2nd. much larger steel line is what J_J described as a suction line only...I'm confusing this line with the return line....could be that these tractors may be different...I wouldn't know this...I do know that if and when I get this together and workin' it will help someone else out without any of the problems I'm having.....you guys are a great help and I need all the help I can get... once again...I really appreciate all the interest and input from all you guys... take care<<<<>>>Ampa <> :thumbsup:

 

[David Devuono]

I am also building a 4 way blade for my tracked dumper. I am suggesting that you may not have to cut any of those lines. I suspect your tractor may have a port you can tap into. Look around where the pressure line goes into the rearend. Know what all the levers do? Picture is fuzzy but almost looks like a shaft sticking out with no lever on it? It may control a plugged off port. For example on my Kubota I have two levers. One to raise and lower the 3PTH and one that switches the hydraulic flow between the 3PTH and an auxillary output. In my case, my front end loader. To operate, I switch a lever on the transmission housing to remote outlet and then operate the 3PTH lever putting it in the up position to complete the circuit to my Front End Loader. Post a few more pictures of the transmission, close ups where the high pressure line goes in, front under the seat, left side of transmission housing. My little 12hp had one.

 

[ampa]

Hi David.....that shaft stickin' out.... is where I removed the lever....this one and only lever controled the up and down operation...there is no auxillary on this tractor..*NOTE* that large bolt on the side of the rear axle housing with the small "P" line connected to...can be removed and the bolt has a hole in it and an "O" ring on it.

<> I'll not be usin' the internal hydraulics ever again..... perhaps I should just buy a recommended size externeral tank and plug the P line running to the 3 pt hitch. plus the suction line..having it's own tank should have all the return ports etc. I'll need to use.

Maybe then I'd only need to use regular grade # 90 oil in the transmission and rear axle.... different model 80's greymarket tractors made in Japan only require #90....mine states hydraulic type oil...maybe someone could chime in here and explain the difference....I have just posted the same question on the ISEKI forum as well.

I earned some extra $$ this past weekend so I decieded I'd buy the other cylinder/ram I needed for the angle part of the blade @ PRINCESS AUTO while it was still on sale for $102 tax included....so total price of these two cylinders comes to only $204 including tax (@ only 13 % HST)...

some people refer this new HST as the Harpers Sales Tax..... I think we really get shafted with a higher rate of tax % on everything...and I do mean everything....which now applies to our services/heating/electricity etc. here in Canada.

whats the tax % cost on goods in the USA these days?... anyhow now I can go ahead and completely connect the whole system up rather than wait till later.. now there be no need to install plugs and maybe eleminate some or most of the confusion I've created on this hydraulic issue....I'll post some pic's installing this second cylinder/ram...Thank you David.......take care<> Ampa

 

[DonnieP]

Ampa, I'm going throw another curve ball at you. Looking at the picture you posted, there looks to be a plate with a channel under it. On my Kubota to install the FEL, you remove a plate like this and replace it with one that has two threaded holes drilled into it, one for pressure and one for return. I've seen tractors that when you remove the plate, the ports in the side of the tractor are threaded and you screw the fittings into these and throw the cover plate away.

Donnie