Question About engaging PTO

[n4khq]

I don't think a blade can contact the opposite pivot bolt.

Mine does, maybe there is a washer missing or something, I don't think the blades are upside down and the mower cuts great.

 

[n4khq]

They won't hit the pivot bolt.

NotForhire & whistlepig mine is hitting the Pivot blot. It sounds like someone is hitting the cutter with a 8 lb hammer every time I enguage the PTO. I have no ideal what would happen if I engaged at high RPMs.

Thanks

 

[n4khq]

Thank to everyone that replied. Below is the email I sent the dealer. let me know if I am missing something.

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I am hoping there is an assembly problem with my LandPride. The blades do not appear to be on upside-down but ever time I engage the PTO at the lowest possible RPMs, the blades slam into the pivot bolts. The seat kill switch only works when the PTO is engaged and must have a safety feature that locks the PTO because it jammed one blade on the pivot bolt andI had to beat it off with a large hammer.

If I disengage the PTO the blades spin down in cutting position. When I engage the electric PTO, I think the inertia of the blades cause them to slam into the pivot bolts sounding like I am hitting the cutter with a large hammer. I am think the blades should rotate 360 degrees.

Thanks

 

[Brad_Blazer]

The blades will backspin and hit each other when the PTO is engaged abruptly even if they are free to spin 360 deg. If the blades on yours are straight with little or no dogleg maybe they can hit the bolts.

Is it possible for you to adjust your idle lower? Maybe it is set at the high end of the spec.

My neighbor had a blade break at the eye and fly off. The direction of the break looked like it was due to the blades clacking together at startup, and both blades had a significant dent at the point where they met each other on the backspin. His tractor is a Ford 4000 and it has a separate PTO clutch that is pretty abrupt.

 

[TripleR]

Here is a previous thread: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/.../177989-disengage-pto-before-idling-down.html

 

[n4khq]

The blades will backspin and hit each other when the PTO is engaged abruptly even if they are free to spin 360 deg. If the blades on yours are straight with little or no dogleg maybe they can hit the bolts.

Is it possible for you to adjust your idle lower? Maybe it is set at the high end of the spec.

My neighbor had a blade break at the eye and fly off. The direction of the break looked like it was due to the blades clacking together at startup, and both blades had a significant dent at the point where they met each other on the backspin. His tractor is a Ford 4000 and it has a separate PTO clutch that is pretty abrupt.

Idle speed is 800 RPM now. I might get it lower but I think the electric PTO will slam it at any speed. The blades have a bend but not enough to clear the pivot bolts. I see what you are saying about the first blade hitting the second but it appears to me with both blades rotating 360 degrees it would not be a solid stop as the pivot bolts and if both were rotating they could avoid the hard slam. Should the blades be hitting the pivot bolts?

TripleR, I read engaging PTO prior to posting

Thanks

 

[Notforhire]

Thanks Bill, my cutter has brakes but at low RPMs they work great and do not tangle blades. Yes probable bad design on the land pride blades causing the lockup. The seat on the L3240 has a kill switch. If you stand up with the PTO engage, the tractor engine is killed. The blade lockup only occurred when I stopped the tractor by standup. I disabled the switch and I think the lockups will not be a problem. I think your reply is correct but still hopping to fine a better solution. Thanks again

my cutter has brakes

I think you are confusing brakes with a slip clutch located between the PTO shaft and the gear box of your cutter. The PTO brake is part of the tractor it stops the PTO shaft from turning when you disengage the PTO.
When you pull up the PTO switch, the PTO brake releases and the PTO drive clutch engages. When you push down on the button the clutch releases and the brake comes on. As far as I know there is no operator control over how fast this happens, just on or off. The only control you have is engine speed as mentioned earlier.

If you stand up with the PTO engaged, the tractor engine is killed.

Then it's working as designed. The safety interlock on the seat switch "knows" that the PTO is engaged. When you stand up it senses that, and shuts off the engine, as designed. Because the PTO is engaged, the cutter is attached directly to the tractors engine. When the engine shuts down it is being back driven by the inertia of the spinning cutter. In this case the engine is acting as a brake. The PTO remains engaged and the PTO brake is disengaged, because there is still power to the PTO switch and as long as things are turning there is still hydraulic pressure on the PTO clutch system.
What I am trying to say, in one thousand words or less is that this is all normal. :laughing:
Sorry for being long winded.
Bill

 

[TripleR]

View attachment 326220View attachment 326221

Idle speed is 800 RPM now. I might get it lower but I think the electric PTO will slam it at any speed. The blades have a bend but not enough to clear the pivot bolts. I see what you are saying about the first blade hitting the second but it appears to me with both blades rotating 360 degrees it would not be a solid stop as the pivot bolts and if both were rotating they could avoid the hard slam. Should the blades be hitting the pivot bolts?

TripleR, I read engaging PTO prior to posting

Thanks

I am at a loss as to your problem or reference to poor design on Land Pride. I have the same PTO switch and use a LP RCR2572 cutter, been using this cutter in heavy stuff for about four years without problems, same with another LP on a different tractor.

I have mine down now putting a new seat in, but will look at the cutter when I get finished later this week sometime, hard to use without a seat.:laughing:

 

[n4khq]

I think you are confusing brakes with a slip clutch located between the PTO shaft and the gear box of your cutter. The PTO brake is part of the tractor it stops the PTO shaft from turning when you disengage the PTO.
When you pull up the PTO switch, the PTO brake releases and the PTO drive clutch engages. When you push down on the button the clutch releases and the brake comes on. As far as I know there is no operator control over how fast this happens, just on or off. The only control you have is engine speed as mentioned earlier.

Then it's working as designed. The safety interlock on the seat switch "knows" that the PTO is engaged. When you stand up it senses that, and shuts off the engine, as designed. Because the PTO is engaged, the cutter is attached directly to the tractors engine. When the engine shuts down it is being back driven by the inertia of the spinning cutter. In this case the engine is acting as a brake. The PTO remains engaged and the PTO brake is disengaged, because there is still power to the PTO switch and as long as things are turning there is still hydraulic pressure on the PTO clutch system.
What I am trying to say, in one thousand words or less is that this is all normal. :laughing:
Sorry for being long winded.
Bill

I am not sure if I have a PTO brake, or a slip clutch or both. I think I have a brake for the following. When I used the seat kill switch, it appeared to lock the PTO immediately. The blades slammed so hard into the pivot bolts, I had to beat one off with a hammer. When I turn the PTO off, it takes about about 30 seconds for the blade to stop turning and the blades never leave the cutting position. I think I have a brake on the PTO to keep it from spinning for ever.

Thanks

 

[n4khq]

I am at a loss as to your problem or reference to poor design on Land Pride. I have the same PTO switch and use a LP RCR2572 cutter, been using this cutter in heavy stuff for about four years without problems, same with another LP on a different tractor.

I have mine down now putting a new seat in, but will look at the cutter when I get finished later this week sometime, hard to use without a seat.:laughing:

I don't think the blades on the LandPride should be slamming the pivot bolts making a noise as loud as a high power rifle. I think the problem is both the electric PTO and the blades not having enough bend to clear the Pivot bolts. Thanks for checking when you get your seat.

 

[Notforhire]

hard to use without a seat.:laughing:

OUCH!

 

[n4khq]

If the PTO stops suddenly, the blades continue and the bend in the blades allows the blades to ride over the Pivot bolts and stick. If the PTO is engaged the blades swing backwards and hit the pivot bolts. The bend in the blades do not allow the blades to slide over the pivot bolts when going backwards for cutting direction. I manually pushed both blades back over the stump jumper and I was able to engage the PTO with the bang. It was a very acceptable start. I assume the blades swung out and the centrifugal force keep the blades from banging into the pivot bolts.

 

[SPYDERLK]

View attachment 326220View attachment 326221

Idle speed is 800 RPM now. I might get it lower but I think the electric PTO will slam it at any speed. The blades have a bend but not enough to clear the pivot bolts. I see what you are saying about the first blade hitting the second but it appears to me with both blades rotating 360 degrees it would not be a solid stop as the pivot bolts and if both were rotating they could avoid the hard slam. Should the blades be hitting the pivot bolts?

TripleR, I read engaging PTO prior to posting

Thanks

Can you rig the tractor to crank with the PTO engaged?
larry

 

[n4khq]

Can you rig the tractor to crank with the PTO engaged?
larry

I am sure I can bypass the switch on electronic PTO to make this happen. I will be in contact with the dealer next week to be sure the blades are correct. I am wounding why the blades are bent down and back up but are not clearing the pivot bolts. I wish I knew if the blades should be clearing the pivot bolts but that is not something people check unless they are having a problem. If I can't get the blades modified, I will consider you suggestion.

Thanks

 

[TripleR]

Check your manual on blade deflection adjustment to see if that might help. It is on page 21-22 on mine.

 

[n4khq]

Mine is a RCR 1272 and I have have read everything I can find on blades. I can't find a blade deflection mention. The manual did say instant on PTO could lock blades. It also said to use the optional soft start PTO if I had the option. I don't think the L3254DT has that option but I will check the manual. Still don't know if the blades are suppose to clear the pivot bolts. The blades are tight against the stump guard and the bolts have lock nuts. Just a little play would allow the blades to clear the bolts. Thanks for the suggestion I found a lot of useful information in the manual.

 

[TripleR]

In the section on assembly: Start by assembling blades without shim (#2). Insert blade bolt (#1) through blade (#3), dish pan (#4) and
flat washer (#5). Temporary secure blade with a used 1 1/8"-12 nut. Draw nut up snug. Do not tighten.

Check blade deflection. If deflection is greater than3/4", remove blade bolt and reassemble as before except include shim (#2) in the assembly. Select shim thickness based on deflection. The greater the deflection, the thicker the shim.

Once blade deflection is correct, replace used nut with new locknut (#6) and torque to 450 ft-lbs.

I cant post pictures,but it seems "possible" this was not assembled djusted properly, just a thought.

 

[RoyJackson]

I have a new Kubota, L3240DT and LandPride 6 ft cutter (bush hog). If I just disengage the PTO and allow the cutter to spin down, the blades to not swing in to the center. The PTO is a 1" inch yellow twist knob. It seems to be on or off with no in-between. The clutch does not disengage the PTO when depressed. With both blades in cutting position and the tractor at idle, engaging the PTO with the cutter attached, It sounds like hitting the cutter with a sledge hammer. I get some bouncing of the cutter like a blade was not in the cutting position. Once started, the LandPride cuts well. I think the problem is the PTO can not be engaged slowly. I know this can't be good for the cutter. Any suggestions?


Thanks

What you're describing is actually quite normal. The cutter's blades pivot and you will feel some vibration (maybe a "clunk" too) until they extend.
Engage your PTO at low RPM (1000 RPM at most) and keep the RPM low for 5-10 seconds, then smoothly increase RPM to PTO speed.
Disengage at low RPM too...it will extend the life of your PTO brake.

 

[Bluegill2]

Normal, like Roy just said.

I have a LP 5' cutter and the blades will not rotate 360 degrees. I engaged and disengaged at idle and sometimes get the shimmy-shimmy-clang-bang, very seldom though. But I have a L3800DT with duel stage clutch and I can slowly engage the pto with the clutch. I do not like a electric pto switch and was one of the reasons I went with the L3800!

I still can't get my head around the fact your clutch doesn't effect the PTO. Don't think I could get used to that at all...

 

[n4khq]

What you're describing is actually quite normal. The cutter's blades pivot and you will feel some vibration (maybe a "clunk" too) until they extend.
Engage your PTO at low RPM (1000 RPM at most) and keep the RPM low for 5-10 seconds, the smoothly increase RPM to PTO speed.
Disengage at low RPM too...it will extend the life of your PTO brake.

Thanks for the reply. I don't think it is normal to hear metal slamming against metal as loud as a high power rifle. With the help of the forum, I think I may have a solution. The blades are tight and disengaging the PTO leaves the blades extended. When I engage the PTO the inertia of the blades cause them to slam back into the pivot bolts. If the blades were not so tight, I think they would swing forward when I disengage the PTO. I have moved the blades forward and I don't have the loud bang when enguaging the PTO. The blades swing out and not back into the bolts.