Putting a Cummins 24V with VE mechanical injection pump into my 2008 F250 with failed Navistar engine

[westcliffe01]

Built Ford tough with Cummins stuff!
Cool project for sure

Any particular reason you went with the VE pump over the P7100 pump?

Yes, a P7100 pump is quite an expensive item, it would need new injector lines at $750 min a set. The P7100 has more performance potential with 1 plunger per cylinder, but does not have injection timing advance like the rotary pump. Thus fuel economy winner is the VE pump which has the timing advance built in. The VE Pump itself is much cheaper and simpler and Im not looking for a boost in power, just long term reliability. I am aware that the P pump is a very popular option with the performance crowd. P7100 core pumps sell for the same price or more than what a brand new VE pump will sell for. Then you still have to pay a Bosch shop ~$2500 to rebuild it.

 

[Snobdds]

I know people at work that paid that exact price. Pull the cab, pull the engine, tear the engine down, install ARP studs, potentially bore block and new pistons, rings, bearings, possibility of valve train damage, new cam, followers rockers, 2x head jobs, new turbos, up pipes, new HP fuel pump, rebuilt injectors + any other fuel system parts. Put it all back together and back in truck, re-install cab along with new cab mounts etc etc. In my case replace DOC and DPF which is already several thousand $...

The block on 6.0 and 6.4 are one of the strongest ever made, I doubt you would need to do anything to it at 117k miles. Emissions killed that engine. The regen was made to dump fuel in 7&8 to burn off in the DPF, but lots of fuel got into the oil. All that extra fuel in the oil made the valve train fail for poor lubrication. It will also take out the turbo for poor lubrication.

The fix is to delete it. The 6.4 is the one truck that a delete is a must.

It's a done deal now for you, but the 6.4 has been figured out. I always refer to the 6.4 as the most powerful diesel engine to ever be put into a truck. It was a beast when fixed and tuned right.

 

[westcliffe01]

It's my understanding those diesels run the cam right in the block, without cam bearings, isn't that, right?

SR

There is at least 1 bushing on the journal next to the drive gear.

 

[westcliffe01]

The block on 6.0 and 6.4 are one of the strongest ever made, I doubt you would need to do anything to it at 117k miles. Emissions killed that engine. The regen was made to dump fuel in 7&8 to burn off in the DPF, but lots of fuel got into the oil. All that extra fuel in the oil made the valve train fail for poor lubrication. It will also take out the turbo for poor lubrication.

The fix is to delete it. The 6.4 is the one truck that a delete is a must.

It's a done deal now for you, but the 6.4 has been figured out. I always refer to the 6.4 as the most powerful diesel engine to ever be put into a truck. It was a beast when fixed and tuned right.

Since one of the common failures was for piston 8 to crack, many 6.4 blocks were ruined by that. Im sure my engine has been rebuilt by someone who wanted to keep the 6.4, I just could not justify the spend needed to replace all the failure prone Navistar parts and still end up with an engine that I for all intents and purposes I still could not work on because of the poor access due to the cab and the cost could never be recovered if I had to sell the truck. While a truck converted to a Cummins is arguably worth more in marketplace than a truck that still has the 6.4 in it.

 

[Snobdds]

Since one of the common failures was for piston 8 to crack, many 6.4 blocks were ruined by that. Im sure my engine has been rebuilt by someone who wanted to keep the 6.4, I just could not justify the spend needed to replace all the failure prone Navistar parts and still end up with an engine that I for all intents and purposes I still could not work on because of the poor access due to the cab and the cost could never be recovered if I had to sell the truck. While a truck converted to a Cummins is arguably worth more in marketplace than a truck that still has the 6.4 in it.

I get the economics of it.

Like I said, everything goes back to the emissions. It was the first heavy emission based engine for Ford and Navistar. They got some things wrong. They learned a lot too. All the first year emission based trucks form all OEM's struggled. The one thing they did get right is how over built the bottom end was. Have you ever seen the bed plate on it?

We had a 6.4 at the ranch that got the DPF and EGR's ripped off with less than 5k on it. It lived a hard life, but damn was it tough and never gave us any problems.

 

[westcliffe01]

I get the economics of it.

Like I said, everything goes back to the emissions. It was the first heavy emission based engine for Ford and Navistar. They got some things wrong. They learned a lot too. All the first year emission based trucks form all OEM's struggled. The one thing they did get right is how over built the bottom end was. Have you ever seen the bed plate on it?

We had a 6.4 at the ranch that got the DPF and EGR's ripped off with less than 5k on it. It lived a hard life, but damn was it tough and never gave us any problems.

So many diesel shops have been busted for doing deletes that no-one will touch it nowadays. I also live within 50 miles of the EPA office in Ann Arbor so no-one nearby will do anything delete related. Its either DIY or nothing. I actually bought a device to change the controller software but the engine failed before I got around to it....

 

[Snobdds]

So many diesel shops have been busted for doing deletes that no-one will touch it nowadays. I also live within 50 miles of the EPA office in Ann Arbor so no-one nearby will do anything delete related. Its either DIY or nothing. I actually bought a device to change the controller software but the engine failed before I got around to it....

The irony here is...

A common rail diesel without emissions will be cleaner burning than as emission compliant 24v with injection pump.

I understand your predicament due to where you live. I on the other hand walk into my local shop and they will delete anything today. It's crazy the polar opposite worlds we live in today. Wyoming is what America was...

 

[Alan W.]

The block on 6.0 and 6.4 are one of the strongest ever made, I doubt you would need to do anything to it at 117k miles. Emissions killed that engine. The regen was made to dump fuel in 7&8 to burn off in the DPF, but lots of fuel got into the oil. All that extra fuel in the oil made the valve train fail for poor lubrication. It will also take out the turbo for poor lubrication.

The fix is to delete it. The 6.4 is the one truck that a delete is a must.

It's a done deal now for you, but the 6.4 has been figured out. I always refer to the 6.4 as the most powerful diesel engine to ever be put into a truck. It was a beast when fixed and tuned right.

My son has an 08 250 with the 6.4.
He changed all that he thought could go wrong and it is one sweet ride. I have thought about finding one to redo myself.

 

[westcliffe01]

The irony here is...

A common rail diesel without emissions will be cleaner burning than as emission compliant 24v with injection pump.

I understand your predicament due to where you live. I on the other hand walk into my local shop and they will delete anything today. It's crazy the polar opposite worlds we live in today. Wyoming is what America was...

1 state south of you in Colorado and its already a totally different world with once a year state inspection of the emissions system on your diesel truck. Even if you have to drive several hours to get it done at one of the approved facilities. No way I would own any diesel there unless it was a model year that preceeded the emissions requirements.

 

[Fixastuff]

Thanks for starting this great thread!