Pulled the trigger today on a Duramax

   / Pulled the trigger today on a Duramax #111  
Wow, world class rant from BuickandDeere! :hissyfit:

Has anybody tried the new 2014 GM pickup with the 6.2L all-aluminum small block V8? It has cylinder cut out (finally). This is what I was looking for 3-4 years ago, and ended up with Ram 5.7L Hemi.

I think GM came out with a 'quad' cab as well, to extend short bed room bed like Ram did?

Not trying to hijack the thread, just curious since it is about GM trucks, anyway. :rolleyes:

6.2L V-8 Output Figures Released for 2014 Silverado, Sierra

460 ft-lb torque @ ???? rpm.
 
   / Pulled the trigger today on a Duramax #112  
I don't know how much I trust gm's cylinder cutout technology. The way I understand it is their other ones like to drink oil.
 
   / Pulled the trigger today on a Duramax #113  
I don't know how much I trust gm's cylinder cutout technology. The way I understand it is their other ones like to drink oil.

Mike you're right. I had the 5.3L V8 'ACM' engine and it DID start to blow oil past the rings @ ~ 50k miles. Most started at 30k miles, but I ran synthetic oil that kept 'em looser for longer. There are lots of blogs out there about it.

GM's engine design is such you can't deactivate the thing - and the dealer refuses to. On my Ram, I have a tiptronic tranny that I can shut down the 'ACM' when it's cold out.

I think GM solved it by now? Turns out they were spraying oil on all cylinders, including the cutout cylinders. When cutout cylinders were shutoff, they run 'cold', and start sticking piston rings over time, and pumping oil out. Bogus design, & no, I am not 'slamming' a mfg. It is well documented.

GM proposed all sorts of bandaids (including new pistons/rings that developed the same problem after the same mileage). The only thing found to work was using high detergent oil additive to loosen the rings back up.

Some guys were going thru a quart of oil every 500 miles. It was awful.
 
   / Pulled the trigger today on a Duramax #114  
7-11 for a super sized slurpy, a coffee or what ever. So everybody can listen to your diesel idle. For those who don't have a credit in basic high school physics. Torque alone does not do work. Rpm does not perform work. Time does not perform work. It takes torque and rpm together to perform work. It's a calculation of torque and rpm with relation to time to raise a load against gravity and assorted frictional losses "per hour" . To determine which engine can either haul a larger weight uphill in the same period of time. Or raise the same weight in a shorter period of time. If lower rpm was better. Why did Ag manufactures change from a 540rpm pto to a 1000rpm pto to handle higher HP instead of a 250rpm pto? How it a race to haul live stock like a Nascar event uphill faster? As long as the vehicle keeps up with traffic in the right lane, it doesn't matter. How do you need 400HP to haul typical under 10,000lb load and rarely do any real world pickups haul 26,000lbs. A short time ago a 318 used to be considered just fine to haul 40 ton of freight plus the truck across country over two mountain ranges. What era of diesel engine "power" are you comparing to gasoline "power"? Reliability? Reliability or a modern epa diesel? Who are you kidding? It's been a long time since the glory days of the simple reliable 6BT and mechanical pump ISB Cummins diesel trucks. Ever have anything to do with any diesel with common rail high pressure injectors? Ever have anything to do with particulate filters, glow plugs, cooled egr, urea injection, cat converters, variable turbo's, two alternators, two batteries and more expensive filters. I haven't seen a gasser wax up a fuel filter either. Last time I checked gasoline runs 20% or so cheaper than diesel. It's been a while since the mid 2000's diesel price advantage at the pumps. I suppose if you have the money to spend on the luxury of a diesel in 2014. The glory days of diesel pickups and low diesel fuel prices from 1989 to at most 2006 is past. I see the old chev port injected 6.0 with a Crew cab, standard box with single rear wheels:4x4 w/ 6.0L (4.10 axle): 5,897 / 13,000 or....... 4x4 w/ 6.6L (3.73 axle): 5,897 / 13,000. Both 13,000lbs. Crew cab, long box with dual rear wheels:4x4 w/ 6.0L (4.10 axle): 5,987 / 13,200 or........ 4x4 w/ 6.6L (3.73 axle): 10,206 / 22,500 Really just how many pickups out there have the paperwork and driver with a class A to haul a trailer over 10,000lbs ? As for max weight in the pickup box, the gasser wins. Crew cab, long box (2WD) with dual rear wheels: 6.6L: 5,908 / 13,025 gross, 6.0L: 2,833 / 6,245 payload. 6.6L: 5,908 / 13,025 gross, 6.6L: 2,488 / 5,484 payload. As for power, the old outdated port injected gasser still makes more power until any recent diesel.On cheaper fuel. Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 322 @ 4,400rpm Torque (lb-ft @ rpm): 380 @ 4,200rpm Recommended fuel: Regular unleaded or E85 Ratings for the last simple and reliable Cummins. For the 2001–2002 model years, a standard output and high output ISB Cummins engine was offered. The standard outputwas rated to 235 horsepower (175 kW; 238 PS) and 460 pound-feet (624 N·m) when equipped with either a manual transmission or automatic. The high output ISB was rated at 245 horsepower (183 kW; 248 PS) and 505 pound-feet (685 N·m), and only a NV5600 six-speed manual transmission. In 2001-2002 . All that could be heard was just more powerful the diesel was than gasoline. Looks like 235HP and 245HP. With a common rail prior to 2007. Midway through the 2004 model year, the Cummins 600 was introduced, producing 325 horsepower (242 kW; 330 PS) at 2,900 rpm and 600 pound-feet (813 N·m) at 1,600 rpm.


Wow a lot of avoiding stuff here. Biggest point being the gassers are not rated to pull what the diesels are. I use my trucks at or near there max. I have 2 2012 rams with the EPA diesel as you call them not one problem out of either. I guess I should just buy a gasser and use it over it's rated capability a just to make you happy. I'll get right in that. And I never stop to get a big gulp or coffee or anything if that nature just to fuel. And guess what my trucks don't just sit around and idle. Oh and none of my trucks blow smoke either. I will say that everyone that toes does not need a diesel but those of us that tow heavy do.
 
   / Pulled the trigger today on a Duramax #115  
Surprisingly high tow capacities for the new 2014 "half tons" with the 6.2 DI gasser. Allowed load in the box runs 1800lbs too.

Crew Cab Short Box with Max. trailering package: 2WD: 12000lb (6.2L and 3.73 axle)
4x4: 11800lb (6.2L and 3.73 axle)

Power is past what diesels made just a few years ago.

4.3L Compression ratio: 11.0:1 Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 285 @ 5300 (gas)
297 @ 5300 (E85)
torque (lb-ft @ rpm): 305 @ 3900 (gas)
330 @ 3900 (E85)

5.3L Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 355 @ 5600 (gas)
380 @ 5600 (E85)
Torque (lb-ft@ rpm):
383 @ 4100 (gas)
416 @ 4100 (E85)

6.2L Horsepower (hp @ rpm):420 @ 5600 .
Torque (lb-ft @ rpm)460 @ 4100

Running at peak torque rpms of 4100 makes 359HP. If that won't pull a load up the hill. You need a heavy truck, not light truck.
 
   / Pulled the trigger today on a Duramax #116  
ahhh...but therein lies the rub, b&d.......

Note where GM is rating peak torque these days - at a screaming 4100 rpm! Ever run an engine up a hill @ 4100 rpm? Sounds like it is going to climb out of the hood! (like my old 5.3L, which is why I upsized).

GM used to rate at a lower rpm. And, both rpm & torque are directly correlated to engine wear, hence an earlier poster's point these engines WILL wear out sooner if used this way often.

Hence the diesel, which makes peak torque at lower rpm due to much higher peak cylinder pressures.

Many posters have noted if you pull heavy loads often, go diesel, for these reasons.

As for me, I pull heavy loads occasionally, so go with a larger gas engine than I need 70% of the time. As Murph says, it feels good, do it! :thumbsup:
 
   / Pulled the trigger today on a Duramax #117  
Wow a lot of avoiding stuff here. Biggest point being the gassers are not rated to pull what the diesels are. I use my trucks at or near thier max. I have 2 2012 rams with the EPA diesel as you call them not one problem out of either. I guess I should just buy a gasser and use it over it's rated capability a just to make you happy. I'll get right in that. And I never stop to get a big gulp or coffee or anything if that nature just to fuel. And guess what my trucks don't just sit around and idle. Oh and none of my trucks blow smoke either. I will say that everyone that tows does not need a diesel but those of us that tow heavy do.

I'm just saying that the average diesel which is used as a highway commuter vehicle. And occasionally tows a boat, car or horse trailer on a 2-5/16" ball hitch less than 2000 miles a year is the majority of diesel pickup service. The rest is for status.
There is still a place although a shrinking market niche for diesel light trucks. Rare however is the pickup, let alone a diesel pickup rolling off the factory floor that has a 5th wheel or gooseneck hitch and hauls 10,000-26,000lbs for more than 10,000 miles per year.
 
   / Pulled the trigger today on a Duramax #118  
buckanddeere, I hate to say it, but you are correct on a lot of the diesel pick up owners. I also hate to admit, but I'm one of them. To me its not a status thing though, I really don't care what other people think, I've just wanted a Cummins since they first put them in a Dodge in 1988.
 
   / Pulled the trigger today on a Duramax #119  
ahhh...but therein lies the rub, b&d.......

Note where GM is rating peak torque these days - at a screaming 4100 rpm! Ever run an engine up a hill @ 4100 rpm? Sounds like it is going to climb out of the hood! (like my old 5.3L, which is why I upsized).

GM used to rate at a lower rpm. And, both rpm & torque are directly correlated to engine wear, hence an earlier poster's point these engines WILL wear out sooner if used this way often.

Hence the diesel, which makes peak torque at lower rpm due to much higher peak cylinder pressures.

Many posters have noted if you pull heavy loads often, go diesel, for these reasons.

As for me, I pull heavy loads occasionally, so go with a larger gas engine than I need 70% of the time. As Murph says, it feels good, do it! :thumbsup:

So what if the engine is running 3500-5500rpm? It's supposed to run in those rpm ranges for the BRIEF moments out of the engines service life. It isn't going to blowup, really. So get down off the chair and quit screaming. The little mouse in the corner going "squeak" really isn't going to hurt you.
Where do you get the idea the engine runs 4100-5500rpm at 400+HP output every moment it's running. The gasoline truck engine if you ever noticed is coasting down to the stoplight, stop sign or idling . Running at 1800rpm and making 40-50HP when the vehicle is moving. The amount of time making 100+HP and reved up is a very small percent of the vehicles life.
I have no idea why some of you can't tell the difference between light highway vehicle duty cycle and a HD duty cycle on a marine propulsion engine, genset or irrigation pump making rated power 24/7.
If you haven't noticed some time since since vehicles made in the late 80's and using unleaded fuel. The gassers very rarely wear out before the chassis and drive train wears out. A 300,000+ mile gasser pickup engine in corporate vehicles is a boring regularity.
We are living in 2014, not 1970. Not even comparing the then new 1989 Cummins in a pickup to wornout 1970's and early/mid 1980's gasser pickups in 1989.
Again, where do you get the idea that engine life is some sort of critical factor in a car or pickup? It isn't going to wear out. Ever hear tell of a diesel however that washed down cylinder walls and diluted engine oil with failed injectors? The price of new diesel injectors? Ever hear tell of injectors being replaced? Diesel won't start due to failed glowplugs? Ever hear tell of a check engine light on due to diesel emissions problem? A gelled fuel filter?
Try your 2012 diesels in a few years after warranty has expired and thousands of $$$ in engine or emissions systems work is required. Long before the chassis or driveline is worn out. Any "savings" is long gone and will never be recovered burning $4.20 a gallon diesel instead of $ 3.60 a gallon gasoline.
Did I mention the cost of the diesel option?
 
   / Pulled the trigger today on a Duramax #120  
buckanddeere, I hate to say it, but you are correct on a lot of the diesel pick up owners. I also hate to admit, but I'm one of them. To me its not a status thing though, I really don't care what other people think, I've just wanted a Cummins since they first put them in a Dodge in 1988.

:D I'm guilty too, but i do have a camper to pull a few times a year!

I'd still love my 5.9 Cummins, even if it were only a grocery getter!!
Travis
 

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