puffs at high idle

[Crog]

Greetings,

I have a Hinomoto E2304 with 780 hours. I have been operating it for about a month, and it has been running great. I filled the tank this weekend, and noticed something different. When I set the throttle to 2000 RPM or higher, there seems to be a miss. Every time it sputters, I get a puff of white (could be bluish or grayish but it's hard to tell) smoke.

The higher the RPMs, the more it does it. Starts fine, and no problems below 2000 RPM.

I suspect bad fuel, but I could be wrong.

Will it do any harm to just burn through this tank, or should I take more drastic measures. Are there any other conditions that could explain this problem.

thanks,
Jeff

 

[jray]

Hey Crog I have a Shibura and sometimes it smokes a slight grey if I don't let it warm up before I start using it. Any way I am by no means a desiel mech. nor can I spell /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Well blue smoke would mean your getting oil blow bye into the cylinder which I don't blieve would be good. I believe that Grayish white smoke would mean that your not burning all of your fuel upon detonation. I don't know but maybe check the injectors are nice and tight and all the fittings in the fuel system as well. Man I hope its something simple for you, we buy these tractors hoping nothing is wrong with them but I knew I was taking a chance. So far so good with mine. Hope everything works out. Jray /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Crog]

Thanks,

I'm betting it's not a big deal. Probably some clogged injector caused by some gunk in the fuel tank. It was running perfectly before I filled the tank last weekend. Someone sugggested adding some ATF to the fuel. It is supposedly very good at cleaning injectors.

Jff

 

[normde2001]

I would put some real diesel injector cleaner in the tank and check/replace fuel and air filters, also use a diesel fuel stabilizer if not already.

 

[EFC]

The puffs of white smoke is water in the diesel. Do not put ATF in, buy some Diesel fuel water/algae conditioner and add to the tank per manufactures recommendations. It will make the water molecules very small so your diesel will burn them up without damage and kill anything else growing in your tank. Never put anything alcohol based in to get rid of the water.

 

[PJR]

Crog,

I sugested using ATF in your fuel. Eveything I own is diesel, Dodge truck 225,000 81 VW diesel pu 230,000 2002 Vw diesel Jetta, JD970 and had a Chinese tractor that had the puffing problem alot.

I have never had a injector replaced in any of my diesels, ATF works for me.

PJR

 

[EFC]

I don’t think ATF will hurt injectors but it will restrict fuel flow and lower power output. Diesel conditioner is a certified fix that we know will not lower power output, kills algae and is cheaper than ATF.

 

[PJR]

EFC,

I have used high dollar injection cleaner, Diesel Pro 5.00 qt, Cummins injector cleaner 7.50 qt you can buy injector cleaner for.99 But ATF works the Best for cleaning injectors.

It will not remove water thats what a water trap is for.

If your tank is full of alge that will clog your fuel filter, ATF will not help that but if you have injector problems. Dirty, sticking, lots of smoke ATF is the best I have found. You will not lose power it will run great.

I know lots of people that use it also and they are amazed at the results.

Give it a try EFC you might be surprised at what it will do for dirty injectors.

PJR

 

[EFC]

I did not recommend any injector cleaner, if your injectors are dirty then you have bigger problems than cleaner can solve. I recommended fuel conditioner to get rid of water. His hinny does not have a water separator and if there is water then there is algae. I have talked to guys that use ATF and I'm positive it will not shorten the life of your diesel but it has almost 0 flammability so I can’t see it not decreasing power. Of coerce if it is smoking without ATF is sounds like your down on power anyway so it doesn’t matter.

 

[PJR]

EFC,

This is what I do for my diesels to keep the injectors clean. I have had people with smoke problems use ATF and it fixes the problem.

SO do what you want. But if you try it you might like it. It will make those Grey Yanmars run their best!

But back to this guys Problem, try some ATF if it is dirty or sticky injectors it will help!

PJR
P.S I am a bad Speller

 

[Crog]

I have been looking at diesel fuel treatments on line, and came across Kinetic K-100-D. As described, it emulsifies the water in the fuel so it can burn through, kills algae and cleans injectors. It is about $20 per quart. Has anyone had any experience with this product?

There was both water and algae sludge in my fuel filter when I cleaned it out. I am going to replace the filter itself today. I have no objection to draining the tank other than that I don't know of a good way to dispose of the old fuel.

I am open to suggestions regarding any products that are good for dealing with water and algae.

THakns

JEff

 

[Crog]

FYI,

Spent most of the day Saturday troubleshooting over the phone with Bill of Barnett Tractor Co. which is where I bought the Hinomoto. He has been very helpful and patient.

Unfortunately we narrowed it down to a problem with the injector pump. We hoped it was just the timing, but I removed a shim to no avail. The problem is getting progressively worse.

The good thing is that Bill gives a 6 month warrantee on the gray market tractors he sells, and he is going to have the pump rebuilt for me. I'm shipping it off tomorrow.

Thanks for all the good advice.

Jeff

 

[JerryG]

I don't know anything about that brand of fuel treatment. But I do know that I like PowerService. I use about 450-500 gallons of diesel a year and I have not had any kind of fuel problems since I started using PowerService.

 

[JohnMiller3]

<font color="blue"> diesel fuel treatments... is about $20 per quart...</font>

Even at a current high price of $2. / gallon... Ten gallons of diesel fuel seems to be a much wiser and better choice... vs. $80. / gallon of questionable additives...

 

[EFC]

I use 911 diesel treatment. One 10 dollar jug treats 200 gallons of fuel. It does not contain injector cleaner in it. The best way to keep injectors clean is to not run dirty fuel through them and run the engine under load with as little idling as possible. Once they are dirty either rebuild or replace. I sure would have treated the diesel for water before I rebuilt an injector pump. But hey it wont hurt /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Crog]

Thanks,

I am going to drain the tank completely tomorrow and go get some fresh diesel to try it out. The pump is out right now, but it is easy to put back in.

I will have to be sure to bleed the air out of the system well. What are the indications that there could still be some air in there? Will it idle rough, smoke, etc.?

 

[normde2001]

Be sure and inspect/clean the inside of the tank thoroughly. Green plantlife tends to grow in there if there was water. If you have air in the system, it won't start.

 

[EFC]

"Will it idle rough, smoke, etc.? "

It won’t start period. It is almost impossible to get all the fuel/water out of the whole system so you will want to treat the new fuel also. This is a common problem we see everyday. They come from Japan where they are soaking wet and the farmers are not careful about how or what fuel they put in. If you can get a rebuilt injector pump out of the deal I would go for it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Just curious was the oil low or old in the injection pump?

 

[Crog]

I went ahead and drained all of the fuel from the tank. As the last of it was draining, there was quite a bit of water that came out with it. When it was about empty, I shined a light in the tank and could see some white milky stuff draining out.

I went to a 24 hour truck stop this morning and got a fresh tank of fuel. I added a little to the tank on the tractor as it was draining to try to get the rest of the water out. I really tried to remove the tank to clean it out thoroughly, but could not get it out. The steering wheel has to come off to remove the sheet metal that all the gages and such are attached to. I must not have the right tool because I could not get the wheel off.

Anyway, I put in a new fuel filter, reinstalled the pump, and filled the tank about half way with the fresh fuel (no additives). Runs smooth as silk at all throttle settings.

Obviously water is the culprit. I just don't know if the water was in the fuel I added, or if it is water that cannot be removed from the tank. Could be that when the fuel gets near empty in the tractor, it pulls more of the water in with the fuel and jams up the fuel filter. That would not explain why I still had problems on Saturday after replacing the filter. Hopefully it was just a bad batch of fuel.

Thanks for your help. I'm really glad I stepped back and tried this before sending in the injector pump.

 

[EFC]

I am sure the water came from Japan. Good job getting it out of there. Enjoy your beast!!