PTO???

[greenmule]

Yeah,thats your next step,going to a dealer,setting on them,starting them,driving it a little. You'll see this hst/gear/shuttle stuff right away.
And thats right about not needing to constantly shift a gear tractor like a truck,you start out in the gear you are going to be running in for hours sometimes[like brushhoging].
They all have a high and low range and sometimes mid range,than you got 3-4 gears in that range.

You must have alot of back hoe work if you can't hire a guy with a little rubber tire hoe cheaper than buying a hoe. And remember,the front end loader on these are not a dozer blade,you can do a lot with them,but they ain't a dozer[repeating my self just so's you will know that for future.]

And check out all the brands,I ruled out deere and kubota myself cause of price,[they are both top of the line tractors,but you are paying a few thousand for that name] I bought a ck30 kioti,considered mahindra but no dealers close.massy is another to consider,just saying,read the posts in the individual sections here,there are many makes and they all have their problems from time to time,first time buyers , it shouldn't matter which one as far as brand loyality.

 

[Diamondpilot]

One other big factor once you pick the tractor is the tires. There are 3 choices. They are R1's or ags. These are standard tractor tires like you seen on the rear of the old tractors in you past. There are R4's and are much like the tire on a BobCat. Then there are Turf Tires much like a car tire.

This is a Ford Chevy fight but I always recomend R1's 95% of the time. R4's have a place but in my opion not on a tractor. Remember its a tractor, not a lawn mower and the root word of tractor is traction, which is what you want. The last opion is the turfs which are good for lawn mowers and thats about it. You see them used on Golf Courses and such but really are not what you want or need.

Last but not least I would love to have a Backhoe but they are so limited on these machines. Dont get me wrong they do a good job but only dig about enough dirt to fill a 5 gallon bucket at a time. Around me my neighbor tried to widen a pond like you are wanting to do. He worked an entire week then hired a excavator at $125 per hour. This guy did more work in the first hour than he did in a week. Right tool for the job thing! As for burrying cables and water lines you can use a potato plow with adapter to feed cable and such for under $200 investment. Search this site and look for examples many have made.

Chris

 

[flusher]

I've spent the last 48 hours learning as much as I can and this site has been invaluable!!! Things are starting to make sense to me As a good wife, I've shared all of my new found info with my husband.... You can imagine how well that goes over!

He is absolutely against the HST. He hates automatics and hates the fact I have to take my Ford to the dealer to be worked on. He can work on the manual transmissions, so the need for a good service station is not much of a factor. Price on the other hand is always a factor. Hubby was anticipating the need for a riding lawn mower.... until we signed the papers and took a really good look around the place. I knew a tractor was an investment but I still got sticker shock!


QUOTE]

I guess I was the one in this thread who recommended that you take a look at HST tractors . If you or hubby haven't driven an HST tractor, I recommend you do so before spending your hard earned $$ on a shuttle shift tranny. I've owned an HST tractor (the Kubota B7510HST) and now have a 2008 Mahindra 5525 (54 hp engine, 45 hp pto, 2WD, partial constant mesh type gear tranny). I need the larger tractor since I've decided to replace 6 acres of native pasture grass (aka weeds) on my 10 acre spread with a hay crop (winter oats). Both can do the same types of jobs. The larger 5525 allows me to do some jobs faster (e.g. brush hogging weeds on my 10 acres is a 4 hour job with the 5525 instead of 8-10 hours for the 7510HST).

If your hubby can wrench a manual tranny, he probably can fix an HST tranny. They're not that complicated and are certainly simpler than an automatic transmission on a car. HSTs are not completely bullet proof (what is?), but they're not unreliable junk either.

You and your hubby need to log seat time on at least 3 tractor brands and 3 tranny types (HST, shuttle shift, straight gear) as part of your due diligence to become an informed tractor buyer.

 

[Altex]

...He is absolutely against the HST. He hates automatics and hates the fact I have to take my Ford to the dealer to be worked on. He can work on the manual transmissions, so the need for a good service station is not much of a factor....

Just so you and your husband know - HST does NOT work like an Automatic Transmission on a car.

"Hydrostatic transmissions transmit all power hydraulically, using the components of hydraulic machinery. There is no solid coupling of the input and output. One half of the transmission is a hydraulic pump and the other half is a hydraulic motor, or hydraulic cylinder. Hydrostatic drive systems are used on excavators, lawn tractors, forklifts, winch drive systems, heavy lift equipment, agricultural machinery, etc."

Just check out all the different transmissions from the dealer, as flusher said. It won't cost anything to look at. And at least you'll know the real reason why you don't like HST, instead of comparing it to your car, Ford Automatic.

 

[greenmule]

It must not be that good,[hst] if these salesmen gotta keep preaching its vertures!?

Seriously speaking though[well],you got gear with shuttle,you got automatic[hst],transmissions,both work fine for most people who have either,but I'm like the ladys husband,I'd prefer geared/clutch transmissions on my tractors.

Some don't,thats fine.

 

[Altex]

It must not be that good,[hst] if these salesmen gotta keep preaching its vertures!? ...

Huh?? I don't work in Tractor Sales. Just sharing information like Y'all. Tractoring is my weekend hobbie. Which I try to learn as much as possible.

... but I'm like the ladys husband,I'd prefer geared/clutch transmissions on my tractors...

I see your opinion. But, Are you saying they should Not even test drive an HST and Not understand how it works?

Have you tried HST? If yes, then maybe you're not like the ladys husband, who hasn't tried it yet. I did say "try all transmissions". I was just giving info that they seemed to not know about HST. Isn't giving info the purpose here?

 

[SilverHawk]

Well, I'm trying to take the advice that I've received on this site and make some use of it. My husband and I found a MF dealer near our MD home and gave them a visit this morning. They didn't have anything in the 1528- 1533 range. The smallest they had was the 1547 so we played with that. It's a nice tractor, but the ground clearance seems low and it's a bit wide and long for the existing paths on the farm. I think we'll keep it in mind if we ever have to upgrade.

We then went to a JD dealer near Annapolis. After telling the dealer what size we wanted (30-35 hp) he showed us one with 65hp!! His smaller tractors didn't have the hp we wanted/ needed but he did show us some nice features to use as comparison for when we go out again this weekend. We'll be visiting a different JD dealer also as he tried to sell us a gator, a skid loader and a mower instead of a tractor!

Both dealers said that a standard gear holds it's value better if we decide to upgrade.

My husband is still set on a backhoe. I guess he's entitled to his toys! I'm on the fence. If he gets his backhoe, I get my TR3!

Thanks for all the advice. I appreciate the input from those that actually use their tractors and not just sell them.

SilverHawk

 

[Gittyup]

The HST v. gear debate seems to always rear its head. I have both HST and gear. So, not biased. I do believe the HST is safer and more convenient. It's safer because it's easier for a mistake to get you into trouble with gear. My gear is a shutttle shift. Let's say you're moving dirt a good distance, and then pushing over a steep embankment. You move the dirt in a high gear until you get close to the embankment edge. Then you shift to a slower gear for safety. You might even switch ranges from high to low rather than change gears. When finished you then shift the range back to high and prepare to go get another load, but you forget to put the shuttle in forward! When you let out the clutch over the embankment you go. One might say, yeah if you're that dumb you shouldn't be driving a tractor. Well when you are operating a gear shifter, range selector, shuttle lever, clutch, and 3PH lever, it's easy to forget one or the other. This doesn't happen with HST because you always have infinite speed control from your foot. No fooling with all that other stuff. Now you could press on the reverse pedal when you meant to press on the forward (or visa versa), but that is less likely. In fact, I can't recall ever doing that.

Another example: You're loading mulch into the bed of your pickup. Your feet are wet from dew or rain or whatever. As you ease up to the truck with your gear-powered load, your clutch to stop and your foot slips off the clutch and you slam into the side of your pickup. Won't happen with HST.

There are uses where a gear tractor is better suited. But, there are more uses where an HST is better. However, you may have to up size in hp if you are marginal to begin with due to the extra power loss of HSTs. My advice: get HST if you can afford it.

Now on the PTO thing. I don't see much difference between live v. independent in reality. One is operated with your foot and the other is usually controlled with a switch by hand. Sometimes the foot is more convenient. Sometimes the hand. I am a little concerned about the electric actuation mechanism of independents. But, mine is still going strong after 15 years. So, that might be unfounded.

I have a backhoe and love it. It moves a lot of dirt fast enough for me. I would say that mine has almost paid for itself.

If your primary chores are digging and loading, then you should be looking at specs that affect performance of such tasks. Look at tractor weight, hydraulic pump capacity, and loader lift performance. This is what I did. My conclusion was that Kioti and Branson were the best "diggers" for the money and by spec., and I bought the Kioti.

HP is less an issue for the tasks you have spoken of. However, if mowing is also a primary usage, then HP is important. You could do a tremendous amount with something like a 27 HP CK27. But, this will limit your bush hog and mower size to 5' and 6' respectively. Depending on how much you plan to mow, this may or may not be good enough. A CK27 TLB in HST is extremely value priced, probably around $21-$22K.

There are several dealers near you. Massey in Glenwood (Mullinix - good people) and Frederick (off rte 15); best selection in Frederick. Deere all over the place (I like Finch in Eldersburg). Kubota everywhere, including Marathon in Friendship near Howard County Fairgrounds, and another just north of Frederick. Kioti is in Lineboro, PA just east of Manchester. I think there is another one over by Cecil County too. Or buy from Wallace and save big! (See Kioti forum).

 

[greenmule]

Well you got a start at it,some of these tractor dealers[even the big names like deere],ain't nothing but used car salesmen,so,you learned your first dealer lesson. Get an understanding to what you want,than just look at the ones from each make,you want,and,go to a kioti dealer.

gittyup,this is what the hst guys always come back to,[the only thing possibly the hst's might have an advantage over geared tractor,fel work],believe me now or here me later[like that saying],most people use their fel way less than there 3 point,way less,in fact,so less,I ain't got a fel,didn't want one if it cost me 3 grand more,[didn't want one period really],I brush hog,I till,I scrape,I pull stuff,fel would come in handy maybe twice a year for me,and all the other times,it would be sticking out in the way.

 

[Altex]

Greenmule, Here's a HST advantage for Brush Hoggin (using the 3PT) that really helps me out. I've got obsticles like trees and rocky areas. It's great to back and Brush Hog between the trees, corners or tight areas. I can move back and forth like a pendulum, fan it out, and hit all those hard spots with speed and ease. I could stop and shift every time I move forward or backward with a regular trans, but it would take alot longer. The HST makes my Hoggin' very efficient.

I can understand if you've got land with no obstacles, no trees, and just going mostly forward. HST is not for you.

You're right though, it's great with the FEL. My right foot is on the pedal. Pedal back and you go reverse. Pedal forward and you move forward. The more you press either way the faster you go in that direction. Left hand on steering wheel and right hand on the FEL controller stick. No changing hands shifting. Easy as pie and can lift and move alot of dirt fast.

But, if shifting really floats your boat, I understand.

 

[MarkV]

SilverHawk congratulations on the land purchase and we will look forward to having you here in Georgia.

I don't care if you buy HST or Gear, I have both. [don't want to get greenmule going] You do owe it to yourself to try both. As far a repairability of one vs the other, if you are buying new for maintenance on a small tract of land the likely hood of having to work on either in your life time is very small.

I also understand your husbands desire for a backhoe, it is a guy thing, I have two. You do need to understand the limitations of the small backhoes that are used on compact tractors. It is unlikely you will do any major work on a pond with one unless it is drained and dries for a long time. They just don't have the reach to get more than a few feet from the bank. And, when you say develop a swampy area into a creek, I think stuck with a compact tractor. For a leach field you better investigate if the local authorities will allow you to install you own septic system. Many counties require you use a licensed septic installer. For water and power lines a day rental of a Ditchwith trencher will get it done faster and leave much less damage than a backhoe.

I am not saying don't get a backhoe but do understand the limitations before spending the big bucks.

Good luck,
MarkV

 

[greenmule]

Well,to be honest[now that I've stirred the gear verses hst pot good],they do have their uses[hst I mean of course],and for a newbie,might even be the thing.

Just taking up for the geared tractors with shuttle.And telling her the other side as best I can.

 

[SilverHawk]

MarkV, I totally forgot about a ditch witch!!! A few years back while in WA, a group of us put french drains in 24 paddocks in 2 days. Quite a handy machine. Thanks.

GreenMule, I appreciate your input on the geared tractors. I love the feel of the stick in the Jeep compared to our commuter car. There is a back to basics/ primal feel that just doesn't compare with anything else. I also acknowledge that I like the automatic for pulling a trailer.

Now, I know a tractor is not an automobile. That's where this lively discussion has helped me. Our place is fairly groomed all ready, almost park like. There will be a fair amount of clear mowing and then there is a fair amount of maintaining the path and area under the perimeter trees that will require a brush hog. We each have differing opinions based on preference and experience and that's exactly what I wanted. Thanks.

 

[greenmule]

Well good hunting. You'll know so much after reading all this stuff on here that the dealer will just say,yes mam!

 

[kthompson]

I think I read this fully but if I missed understood this forgive me: There is so much difference between a HST and auto auto transmission it is unreal. One very simple difference is YOU select the range with the HST or gear it is in.

I also join the crowd of owning both and agree each has advantages. My thoughts from using them: for plowing, spraying fields or pasture go gear. For mower work, (hay fields I would use gear) or loader work go HST. There is no way I can not take my HST and cut faster and/or have less turf damage than a gear model will. For any work where you need to change speeds or directions (Forward/reverse) to me HST is just best. For heavy pulling or steady speeds gear is best. Also, if you have any issue that limits your ability to work the clutch such as knee problem or such then HST can be best option.

Something don't think has been mentioned and very seldom is, try getting off of and on the tractors dress ever how you will when operating it. That rules out such as flip flops. Might seem odd but some tractors have levers and platforms that can catch your clothes or as one of my brother's tractors I was on last Saturday, easy on but a real pain to get off of. Had been a few years since last on it and forgot had bad to climb off of. You will also find some brands or models will have steps where they should be to find them as you climb off back wards and others you will have to hurt for them before stepping down. This also goes to trying the tractors as but some may have switch or levers where for you is just not comfortable. An uncomfortable work area will be work and not fun.

 

[Soundguy]

There is no way I can not take my HST and cut faster and/or have less turf damage than a gear model will. .

Hmm.. I'm not sure i see a direct corelation between tranny type and turf damage??

cut faster? I'll race ya.. you in your hst.. and me in my gear... target field 10ac open grass.. pasture.. can you beat 2 hours?

soundguy

 

[Altex]

...cut faster? I'll race ya.. you in your hst.. and me in my gear... target field 10ac open grass.. pasture.. can you beat 2 hours?
soundguy

Open grass pasture (probably flat in FL). The perfect contion for driving steady and straight. Sounds kind of boring guy.

But, if you have alot of obstacles, trees, rocky islands, slopes and patchy pasture where you have to go fwd and back often, Gear will definitly lose to HST.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Open grass pasture (probably flat in FL). The perfect contion for driving steady and straight. Sounds kind of boring guy.

But, if you have alot of obstacles, trees, rocky islands, slopes and patchy pasture where you have to go fwd and back often, Gear will definitly lose to HST.

You do not need a tractor for that work you need a ZTR. My neighbor runs Ferris ZTR's with 37 HP Kawasaki and a 72" deck. Does 7+ acres a hour at 80% efficiency. My place is 3 acres minus my house and drive and he did it in 36 minutes with lots of trees from off the trailer to on the trailer. I timed him because he charges by the hour. Takes me 1:20 minutes with my 28Hp Jinma and 6' Caroni Rear Discharge Finish Mower plus another 30 minutes to trim. But hey, I enjoy the seat time.

IS® 3100Z Series, Ferris® Industries, Zero-Turn, Riding Mowers, Ferris Mowers, Mowers, Mower, Commercial Mowers, Lawn Mowers, Lawnmowers, Suspension, Independent Suspension, Munsville New York, Syracuse, New York, Central New York, Mohawk Valley,

Only cost $14,000.00

Chris

 

[laen64]

Welcome to augusta GA. I'm a Bota man myself. Nothing against JD" but should you consider do See Zimmerman @ jenkins on Hwy 56 and let him know Larry said hi, He'll set you up with the just what you need

 

[Altex]

You do not need a tractor for that work you need a ZTR. My neighbor runs Ferris ZTR's with 37 HP Kawasaki and a 72" deck. Does 7+ acres a hour at 80% efficiency. My place is 3 acres minus my house and drive and he did it in 36 minutes with lots of trees from off the trailer to on the trailer. I timed him because he charges by the hour. Takes me 1:20 minutes with my 28Hp Jinma and 6' Caroni Rear Discharge Finish Mower plus another 30 minutes to trim. But hey, I enjoy the seat time.

ISｮ 3100Z Series, Ferrisｮ Industries, Zero-Turn, Riding Mowers, Ferris Mowers, Mowers, Mower, Commercial Mowers, Lawn Mowers, Lawnmowers, Suspension, Independent Suspension, Munsville New York, Syracuse, New York, Central New York, Mohawk Valley,

Only cost $14,000.00

Chris

That would be nice. But, I'm taking rough cutting, not finish mowing. Anyway, I don't think I can trade my 3PT Brush Hog for a $14K ZTR (unless you know someone). And I do need the tractor for other things.