Generator PTO vs Gas Engine Generator

[SeaBiscut]

I was wondering if I could get some opinions about what would be a better generator type to purchase. A PTO or gas engine generator? My father wants to purchase a generator.
I currently have a Winco WC6000H generator. I have only used it one time for a power outage that lasted 6 days. It ran from 5:00 am until 11:00 pm. It powered the refrigerator, well pump, lights, TV, 1 desktop computer and 3 laptops. The power outage happened in early Sept. so the heat was not on. If the heat was on the generator would of been running 24/7. I do have a oil boiler with 2 zones. I did cycle the grinder pump for the septic pump by turning off the well pump and turning on the septic pump. Other times that I have used the generator has been for powering power tools at job sites and monthly tests. The generator is about 10 - 12 years only and has about 77 hours on it.
I have a Kubota B3200 tractor 23hp at the pto and a Ford 1715 also 23 at the pto. The Kubota is a 2010 and is used for mowing grass and other chores at my house. I use it during the spring,summer, and fall weekly and in the winter when I need to plow the driveway. The Ford is a 1995 and is at my fathers house and is used mostly for snow removal. It is hardly used during the spring, summer, and fall.
My father wants to power two houses which are 100 feet apart. The items that he wants to run are: refrigerator(2), some lights(both houses), gas steam boiler(1), gas fireplace with a blower(1), gas hot water heater with a power vent(1), laptop computer(2).
I live in the country and my dad is in a small town.
I do not plan on purchasing anything until early next year. The state has a farm show in early January and plan on seeing what deals they have. If I do find a good deal on a used one I may purchase a used one earlier.
What are your thoughts on running my tractors 24/7 (only shutting them down to fuel up; also the gas engine ones) and leaving them unattended while at work and sleeping?
The two that I am considering are:
Winco W15PTOS - will do 15kw. I know my tractors are not able to do the full power only about 12kw. I am fine with that. A dealer is 15 minutes away from both my father and I. The dealer suggested that pto one (he does sell both pto and gas; I purchased my gas engine one from him).
Baumalight TX12 - my tractors will full power this one. A service center is 30 minutes away from both of us.
So what are your thoughts and ideas? Thanks

 

[nybirdman]

Boy!Lots of debate already on this one.I made my choice and it was a PTO powered 10k for my use.Pros/Cons for either choice.My reasons;I know my tractor will start,I know I have plenty of fuel on hand,I am home to hook up and to purchase a 10k stand alone would be a lot more money.If there is snow to remove,trees down or I need the tractor,just shut down for a while.Only reason to run 24/7 would be for life saving equiptment.

 

[TerryR]

In my view a prime issue when considering a standby generator when there is potential for outages over a few hours is availability of fuel. The current news stories from the northeast about the difficulties people are having obtaining gasoline highlight the issue. At least where I live, you can't depend on getting out for fuel after a major storm, nor that it would be available if you can. That drove me to buy a tri-fuel generator, and run it on propane. Our 1000 gal. underground propane tank, which we make sure is filled each December, provides a dependable fuel supply.

For that reason I don't see a gasoline fueled generator as adequate, nor a PTO one unless you can maintain a week's supply of fuel on the premises.

Terry

 

[Verticaltrx]

I'm thinking about the same thing, but also am factoring in that I might want to be off the grid someday. In addition to the house we also have a barn where we need to run a milker. Currently we have oil heat, so I've got 200 gal of #2 off-road diesel available as long as I keep the tank topped off. The way I see it is as follows:

-PTO generator. Very reliable, fairly easy to hook up, our smallest tractor (B3200) would power most everything and I think would still be fairly efficient. Good supply of fuel on hand. Not good for much other than powering the home and farm.

-Stand Alone diesel generator. Once in position it should be easy to hook up. Reliable as long as it is maintained and run. Very expensive per KW compared to the PTO model, but would probably use less fuel. Plenty of fuel on hand. A reasonably sized one could also be used around the farm and job site for powering tools, etc.

-Welder/Generator (10K, 200amp welding). Would be looking at Gas powered as a Diesel version is big $$$. Reliability and ease of use should be the same as the stand alone diesel. Don't have a ready supply of fuel on the farm, but could keep several cans of gas on hand. Would definitely get the most use between the three options and might be the best value.

Granted, these observations are pertaining to my situation, but the thought process is the same. Balancing needs vs wants, costs vs returns, and ease of use vs reliability(which includes availability of fuel.) In the OP's situation I'd go with either of the PTO models, if the only thing it would ever be used for is backup power. Also, don't worry about putting a lot of hours on a tractor by running one. I doubt that even 5% of members on this site will ever 'wear out' a tractor from extended use.

 

[RoyJackson]

This is a decision I'll be making in 2013...
I'll be watching Craigslist for deals on gas powered gennys right after the new year. Since a lot of folks around here bought them as a precaution for Sandy, I expect there'll be some good deals on low hour gennys.
Little bit longer term, it'll be a PTO driven genny between 12kW and 15kW.

My opinion is a diesel genny is the best bet, and I have a nice diesel in a Deere 4400. I'm not going to be running the machine 24/7 and if I do need the tractor for another task, I'll just disconnect the genny as required.

I don't mind keeping diesel fuel around...but I really don't want to be holding more then 5 gallons of gasoline.

 

[nybirdman]

I'm thinking about the same thing, but also am factoring in that I might want to be off the grid someday. In addition to the house we also have a barn where we need to run a milker. Currently we have oil heat, so I've got 200 gal of #2 off-road diesel available as long as I keep the tank topped off. The way I see it is as follows:

-PTO generator. Very reliable, fairly easy to hook up, our smallest tractor (B3200) would power most everything and I think would still be fairly efficient. Good supply of fuel on hand. Not good for much other than powering the home and farm.

-Stand Alone diesel generator. Once in position it should be easy to hook up. Reliable as long as it is maintained and run. Very expensive per KW compared to the PTO model, but would probably use less fuel. Plenty of fuel on hand. A reasonably sized one could also be used around the farm and job site for powering tools, etc.

-Welder/Generator (10K, 200amp welding). Would be looking at Gas powered as a Diesel version is big $$$. Reliability and ease of use should be the same as the stand alone diesel. Don't have a ready supply of fuel on the farm, but could keep several cans of gas on hand. Would definitely get the most use between the three options and might be the best value.

Granted, these observations are pertaining to my situation, but the thought process is the same. Balancing needs vs wants, costs vs returns, and ease of use vs reliability(which includes availability of fuel.) In the OP's situation I'd go with either of the PTO models, if the only thing it would ever be used for is backup power. Also, don't worry about putting a lot of hours on a tractor by running one. I doubt that even 5% of members on this site will ever 'wear out' a tractor from extended use.

Gas welders are very tough on gas.Better have more than a couple cans.

 

[dex3361]

We had a 9 day power outage that took nearly the whole state out of power. I learned that when the few gas stations that were open ran out of gas they still had diesel. I now keep 100 gallons of diesel on hand. So I am going to make sure that my system and back up is diesel powered. I have a small air cooled 6.5KW that I will normally use. If I need more power or my primary fails my back up is going to be the HF PTO generator.

 

[90cummins]

I'd go with the PTO unit for several reasons.
First I would not hesitate to run my tractor 24/7, BUT not unattended unless I installed a safety shutdown system for over-temp/low oil pressure. This could be done rather easily & fairly cheap (in my opinion).
My Ford 1720 is always ready to run and I have 275 gallons of diesel in the garage for it and also my heating oil tank in the house is also between 3/4 & full.
The price per KW for a PTO unit is much cheaper than a stand lone gas, propane or diesel unit.
You have 2 tractors available in the very unlikely situation 1 should go down.
12kw is a lot of power & most likely more than you could use unless you had electric heat.
Your portable could be used for those instances when the tractor is needed for jobs such as moving snow or maintaince.
A portable gas unit is subject to fuel issues if you let it set too long. And storing Gasoline is unsafe; it also has very short shelf life unlike diesel which will keep for years.
As we have seen gasoline quickly becomes an issue when there is a widespread power outage or disaster, but diesel appears to be still available.
The engines in your tractors are designed for many thousands of hours of use and running them at PTO rated speed of approx 2400 rpm on the Ford is not going to hurt them or decrease the service life by any measurable account.
The above opinion is based on my personal experience as I have a 25kw pto Generac unit and 2 Generac portables and 1 diesel portable.

 

[MikeInEburg]

I also have this decision in the very near future. I expect to go with PTO for the reasons given in earlier posts. The next decision is which PTO generator. My goal is 10K watts. I'd prefer quality voltage regulation and I fear that Harbor Freight or Northern Tool units may be lacking. I like the unit by IMD (imdllc.com) - but they're a touch out of my budget. Because of how my electrical system is laid out, my only viable interconnection choice is a Generlink meter-base transfer switch, with an "installed" price tag of over $1100.00. In the end, she REALLY likes the ability to flush...

 

[SeaBiscut]

Thanks everyone for the good input. This past summer I built a shed just to store fuel in. It is not near any other structures. In the winter I keep 30 gallons of gas on hand (2 days worth for my gas generator). I label the date purchased and treat it with Sta-bil Marine Formula. I will keep the fuel for 3 months and then use it either in my truck or car. In the summer I only keep 5 gallons treated unless there is a storm forecasted. Then I will have 15 gallons. I never did think of the heating fuel in the basement as a fuel source until you all mentioned it. Thanks.
90Cummins how would I go about installing a low oil/over temp shutdown on my tractors?

 

[90cummins]

Thanks everyone for the good input. This past summer I built a shed just to store fuel in. It is not near any other structures. In the winter I keep 30 gallons of gas on hand (2 days worth for my gas generator). I label the date purchased and treat it with Sta-bil Marine Formula. I will keep the fuel for 3 months and then use it either in my truck or car. In the summer I only keep 5 gallons treated unless there is a storm forecasted. Then I will have 15 gallons. I never did think of the heating fuel in the basement as a fuel source until you all mentioned it. Thanks.
90Cummins how would I go about installing a low oil/over temp shutdown on my tractors?

I would have to think out the details but here is my quick version;
Low oil pressure, there are adjustable & preset pressure switches that will open when the pressure drops below a predetermined value.
First I would monitor you pressure with an accurate guage to find the lowest normal operating pressure and set the switch to open the fuel circuit perhaps 10 or 15 psi below that.
Over temp would need a temp switch that many vehicles have used in the past to operate an over temp light but in this case it would also shut down the fuel supply.
I think I would install a multi-pin electrical connector (found under the hood of any vehicle in a salvage yard) and wire it to interface with the tractor engine wiring harness when unattended operation is required.
I would design this device as a plug in add-on when necessary.
In a nut shell you want low oil pressure or high coolant temp to interrupt the fuel circuit to shut the engine down.

 

[NC4AB]

I went with a trailer mounted Welder / Generator, 10KW continuous output (Miller Bobcat 250) for back up power and mobile welding of all the stuff that breaks in the field. The Bobcat will run pretty much our whole house if needed, and frees up the tractors for other uses.

As previously stated it is not very fuel efficient, ~ 1/2 - 3/4 gallon of gasoline / hr from my experience when running in generator mode. The Diesel powered models are much more fuel efficient but cost much more.

Check out your local Craigslist, the Miller Bobcats / Lincoln Rangers / Hobarts show up sometimes at decent prices.

 

[bobmisi]

I have a 13000 watt pto generator from Northern, and it's about ten years old. I have it mounted on on a 3 point carrier with the heavy duty air filled casters so I can push it up to the tractor and put it away by myself, rather than backing the tractor into the shed etc. Makes it mush easier that way. My tractor is a Branson 3820i. I have nothing but good to say about the generator. I run it on and off during outages. I never run it after we are in bed for the night, as we have a wood stove that heats the whole house. I run my computers as well as my big screen tv while the generator is on with no problems to them. That said, I am now looking at an Isuzu diesel powered 14 KW generator so I can just push the button and go. Sometimes you have to run a generator while its raining or other bad weather and it's hard keeping everything dry. Any generator will do the job to keep you out of trouble during an emergency, so get something. that something will depend on your needs and your budget. PTO generators are very good. They have come a long way. I don't want to run my tractor that long, as where I live, when we go out, we never get it back quick. A week long outage is not unusual.

 

[alco141]

i had one question, do you have propane or natural gas available. i bought the winco trifuel and have had no problems , it is a 9 kw generator, and has low harmonic distortion <.5% so is clean enough for electronics, hook it to the nat gas line and i have no fuel issues, and it will run on gasoline as well. with the wheel kit and electric start my wife or daughters can connect and run this generator easily.

WINCO Tri-Fuel Generators WiseSales.com

this model will run all your house easily.

alex

 

[Soundguy]

all i'll say is that you can buy more wattage if you go pto.

and

I expect a tractor engine to be more reliable than a 'lawnmower' engine.

past that.. power generation is not new technology.. moving electrons and balls of wire, and spinning bits..

lots of variables.

load vs hp

governor accuracy

overall wattage need.

plenty to think about

 

[davel8257]

Is it feasible to mount a PTO Generator on a carry-all platform (similar to Nortrac carry-all sold by Northern)? One theory I've heard is that the torque will twist or rotate the 3-pt arms. I'd like to make some kind of a portable power setup and pull a farm wagon behind the tractor at the same time.

 

[Soundguy]

my northern tools pto genny is mounted on a KK caryall.. with a pallate inbetween them...

twist the 3pt arms? really? 3pt arms size will be compariable to pto hp.. IE.. more pto hp = bigger tractor = bigger arms. thus if your pto genny and thus laod will be sized for your tractor.

whoever told you it will twist the 3pt arms off must have ever actually used one.

 

[Piston]

Regarding the PTO generators, does the PTO have to be run at 540RPM?

Or, can you run the tractor at less than 540 if you don't need the full load? For instance, if I have a PTO generator that puts out 10kw continuous at 540, can I run it at say half that if I only need 5kw? Or does it have to be run at 540 to keep a constant 60hz or something?

 

[PILOON]

Last week B4 the storm, a guy showed me a 7500 watt genset that was going to the recycle pile.He offered it to me for $50.00.
Compression was non existent when hand turning and some decals showed that it came from a building contractor so I guessed that it had been worked to death.
But for $50.00 I took it figuring I'd modify and run it off of my PTO. I have a 1000 rpm out put so a couple of pulies a shaft and a pallet etc would do the trick.
I even had a PTO shaft to couple it up.
Well first off I decided to find out what ailed the genset.
Pulled the head and to my surprise the piston and rings were as new, valves perfect. Further examination proved to be simply a very bad exhaust valve adjustement, so bad that the valve stayed open.
A simple valve adjustment and she runs like new. Carb was not even gummed up. To add to my joy the battery holds a good charge as well.
Due to the tightness of the valve adjuster I guess it left the Chicom factory the way I found it.
So much for my PTO genny plans. Runs too good as it is.
The genset has lighted dash, freq and volt meter as well as time run for oil changes.
Great find! ( the guy was going to scrap for the copper).

 

[Soundguy]

rpm determins hertz

so yeah.. pto needs to be run at whatever the ptogenset gearbox input indicates. might be anything from 536-near 550 for proper freq.