Is the Northern Tool 13kw generator the way to go or is there something better or cheaper I should look at? I'm also wondering how good the waveforms are that come out of these. Any issues running computer equipment? Thanks.
PTO Generator Suggestions
- Thread starter zuiko
- Start date
- Views: 8217
I think Soundguy bought one of those. I know he reported good things about it. I have read a few others that said there was no problem with running sensitive equipment with the Northern Tools gensets. Keep in mind that if you don't have the PTO HP required, you can still get power enough to run many things.
John
John
MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
You can get a tiger power generator with a cart, cord set and PTO shaft for about the same price. The tiger-power has a more advanced voltage regulation system and its weatherized.
Pooh_Bear
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2005
- Messages
- 763
- Tractor
- Early 1949 Ford 8N
Get a UPS for the computer (Uninterruptable Power Supply)
and plug it into the generator. This will take care of any problem power.
A UPS conditions the power and keeps it steady.
Pooh Bear
and plug it into the generator. This will take care of any problem power.
A UPS conditions the power and keeps it steady.
Pooh Bear
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You can get a tiger power generator with a cart, cord set and PTO shaft for about the same price. The tiger-power has a more advanced voltage regulation system and its weatherized. )</font>
Any idea what the approximate cost is on a comparable model? The tiger site does not seem to give any prices.
Any idea what the approximate cost is on a comparable model? The tiger site does not seem to give any prices.
Neil failed to include that his family's business sells Tiger Gen Sets. Here is a link to their site with prices.
Messick Farm Equipment
John
Messick Farm Equipment
John
Dougd
Member
Not entirely true. On low-end UPS's (what I call "switching" UPS's) the AC output of the UPS is connected (via a relay) directly to the AC input (no filtering is done at all) when AC power is applied to the input. Only when you lose the AC input does the relay switch the output to the power produced by the UPS batteries/inverter. UPS's that provide a clean, filtered AC output regardless of the qualtity of the AC input power are significantly more expensive than their low-end brethren, and are much "harder" on their batteries, requiring more maintenance.
jimgerken
Veteran Member
I bought from the guys at Power Connection:
https://ssl.perfora.net/www.powerconnectioninc.net/sess/utn;jsessionid=154464941864b36/shopdata/index.shopscript
Compared to others, these have much better waveform and active voltage control. Something like less than 1% voltage deviation from zero to full rated load, from memory. Mine came already mounted in a very nice three-point cage, with pins. Also came with an imported (Italian) driveshaft, very nice, greaseable, with all gaurds. And the control head box with large easy-to-read voltage and frequency meters and the voltage control circuitry and breakers and recepticals, all in a weather-tite box shock mounted from the main generator chassis. And complete with 10' power cord and plug.
Hints: Ask for a 20 foot power cord, ten just limits you too much.
And remember, buy at least as big a generator as you need, even if it is rated at more HP than your tractor has available. If you upgrade tractors someday, the genny will be ready. And, if you are not using the power, it doesnt take the input HP. In other words, if you buy a 15KW (normally requiring 30 HP) unit and only use 10 KW, you can spin it with 20 HP. Plus, it will be heavier rotating mass and as such will start motors like AC compressor or well submersible pump better than a smaller one, even if HP input is the same, due to the inertia of the spinning armature. The larger unit will be tasked less compared to its full rating, and so it should also last longer.
Be sure to buy a brushless design!
Look for copper windings. Power Connection told me the one I bought was copper.
It would be preferable to have an 1800 rpm unit, over a 3600 rpm unit. You may not be able to find this, I was not able to in the small size I wanted. The slower the alternator spins the longer it lasts. The alternator speed has nothing to do with the tractor, they all (or most) use the standard 540 rpm input, to a gearbox, to the genny.
Hope this helps, its mostly all stuff I learned here, so maybe you already read it. Good luck!
https://ssl.perfora.net/www.powerconnectioninc.net/sess/utn;jsessionid=154464941864b36/shopdata/index.shopscript
Compared to others, these have much better waveform and active voltage control. Something like less than 1% voltage deviation from zero to full rated load, from memory. Mine came already mounted in a very nice three-point cage, with pins. Also came with an imported (Italian) driveshaft, very nice, greaseable, with all gaurds. And the control head box with large easy-to-read voltage and frequency meters and the voltage control circuitry and breakers and recepticals, all in a weather-tite box shock mounted from the main generator chassis. And complete with 10' power cord and plug.
Hints: Ask for a 20 foot power cord, ten just limits you too much.
And remember, buy at least as big a generator as you need, even if it is rated at more HP than your tractor has available. If you upgrade tractors someday, the genny will be ready. And, if you are not using the power, it doesnt take the input HP. In other words, if you buy a 15KW (normally requiring 30 HP) unit and only use 10 KW, you can spin it with 20 HP. Plus, it will be heavier rotating mass and as such will start motors like AC compressor or well submersible pump better than a smaller one, even if HP input is the same, due to the inertia of the spinning armature. The larger unit will be tasked less compared to its full rating, and so it should also last longer.
Be sure to buy a brushless design!
Look for copper windings. Power Connection told me the one I bought was copper.
It would be preferable to have an 1800 rpm unit, over a 3600 rpm unit. You may not be able to find this, I was not able to in the small size I wanted. The slower the alternator spins the longer it lasts. The alternator speed has nothing to do with the tractor, they all (or most) use the standard 540 rpm input, to a gearbox, to the genny.
Hope this helps, its mostly all stuff I learned here, so maybe you already read it. Good luck!
Pooh_Bear
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2005
- Messages
- 763
- Tractor
- Early 1949 Ford 8N
I did not know that about UPS's.
That must be that click I hear when our power "blinks".
I have an APC UPS. Paid about $100 for it 5 years ago.
I get about 4 minutes out of it when the power goes off.
Just long enough to unplug the UPS from the wall and plug it
into an inverter running off a marine battery. I can run my
computer a long time off a big marine battery.
I don't think you run your tractor at idle with a PTO generator.
You still have to bring the PTO up to 540 RPMs which for me is about 2/3 throttle.
I have never worked with a PTO generator so I really don't know.
Pooh Bear
That must be that click I hear when our power "blinks".
I have an APC UPS. Paid about $100 for it 5 years ago.
I get about 4 minutes out of it when the power goes off.
Just long enough to unplug the UPS from the wall and plug it
into an inverter running off a marine battery. I can run my
computer a long time off a big marine battery.
I don't think you run your tractor at idle with a PTO generator.
You still have to bring the PTO up to 540 RPMs which for me is about 2/3 throttle.
I have never worked with a PTO generator so I really don't know.
Pooh Bear
ns_in_tex
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2002
- Messages
- 924
- Location
- East Texas
- Tractor
- Kubota L4610 HSTC, International 2400, Hesston 1280,
My 17 KW pto gen set burns about 1 gal per hour, running central air and the rest of the house & shop. I had it connected to a 39 (46 engine hp) pto hp kubota, but it has to run at near full rpm for pto speed to keep unit at proper voltage.
The governor just feeds it more as the load increases.
The governor just feeds it more as the load increases.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'm assuming these little diesels will 'idle' for long periods without a problem? )</font>
I figured you meant fast idle, and yes, diesel engines run all out 24/7 without a problem as long as lubrication is proper.
As to fuel usage, it just depends of what % of load you're putting on it. A few lights and a refrigertor wouldn't use nearly as much as an A/C and well pump and some lights etc.
It could be as a couple of hours per gallon to 30 minutes per gallon.
John
I figured you meant fast idle, and yes, diesel engines run all out 24/7 without a problem as long as lubrication is proper.
As to fuel usage, it just depends of what % of load you're putting on it. A few lights and a refrigertor wouldn't use nearly as much as an A/C and well pump and some lights etc.
It could be as a couple of hours per gallon to 30 minutes per gallon.
John
Soundguy
Old Timer
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 52,424
- Location
- Central florida
- Tractor
- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Not entirely true. On low-end UPS's (what I call "switching" UPS's) the AC output of the UPS is connected (via a relay) directly to the AC input (no filtering is done at all) when AC power is applied to the input )</font>
Hmm.. I have a hard time believing that. I've been into electronic repair for a good couple decades... I've repaired UPS units from as far back as the late 80's that when you could find things that were still using (yucky) ferro ressonant power supplies. I've yet to -ever- open a unit and not find at least passive filtration in the form of common mode and normal mode filtering or surge suppression.. I.E. some mov's across each leg and / or neon bulbs.. torrid coils for emi/rfi.. etc. Everything from isobar to upsonic., apc and belkin.. energizer.. etc... etc. I was a dealer for APC equipment for 10 years.. their line conditioners and UPS units were as good as you could get for consumer grade equipment, and the money. All those untis mentioned had active filtration.. the smartups, matrix ups, and line conditioners actually did some wave form handling.. while the back-ups units were passive filtering and emi/rfi supression.
to the original poster..:
As for the northern 12.5kw unit.. I ran it on a scope meter and lab grade vom equipment. Output was as clean.. or cleaner than utility.. especially when motor laods kicked in... and those northern units have the 'cheaper' capacitive regulation too.. so I consider that a decent deal. If you can find a 12.5kw genny cheaper than 999$.. I gues.. go for it. At the time I bought mine.. I couldn't find anyone close to that price..
Soundguy
Hmm.. I have a hard time believing that. I've been into electronic repair for a good couple decades... I've repaired UPS units from as far back as the late 80's that when you could find things that were still using (yucky) ferro ressonant power supplies. I've yet to -ever- open a unit and not find at least passive filtration in the form of common mode and normal mode filtering or surge suppression.. I.E. some mov's across each leg and / or neon bulbs.. torrid coils for emi/rfi.. etc. Everything from isobar to upsonic., apc and belkin.. energizer.. etc... etc. I was a dealer for APC equipment for 10 years.. their line conditioners and UPS units were as good as you could get for consumer grade equipment, and the money. All those untis mentioned had active filtration.. the smartups, matrix ups, and line conditioners actually did some wave form handling.. while the back-ups units were passive filtering and emi/rfi supression.
to the original poster..:
As for the northern 12.5kw unit.. I ran it on a scope meter and lab grade vom equipment. Output was as clean.. or cleaner than utility.. especially when motor laods kicked in... and those northern units have the 'cheaper' capacitive regulation too.. so I consider that a decent deal. If you can find a 12.5kw genny cheaper than 999$.. I gues.. go for it. At the time I bought mine.. I couldn't find anyone close to that price..
Soundguy
Soundguy
Old Timer
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 52,424
- Location
- Central florida
- Tractor
- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Just curious, but how long will a typical CUT, say 20-30 hp, run one of these things on a gallon of fuel?
)</font>
No way to answer that. As with all things.. fuel usage will vary by load. How much pto hp you are using per hour will determine fuel usage per hour. My 95 hp diesel tractor burns about 5g in 3 hrs at pto rpm mowing brush. I'd expect it to use alot less fuel hooke dup to a 13kw genny that would be taking 24 pto hp out o f the available 90.. etc.. ( my guess mower was taking 50ish hp.. etc.. ).. so perhaps a little under a gallon per hour at full load.. for my setup..
Soundguy
)</font>
No way to answer that. As with all things.. fuel usage will vary by load. How much pto hp you are using per hour will determine fuel usage per hour. My 95 hp diesel tractor burns about 5g in 3 hrs at pto rpm mowing brush. I'd expect it to use alot less fuel hooke dup to a 13kw genny that would be taking 24 pto hp out o f the available 90.. etc.. ( my guess mower was taking 50ish hp.. etc.. ).. so perhaps a little under a gallon per hour at full load.. for my setup..
Soundguy
Soundguy
Old Timer
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 52,424
- Location
- Central florida
- Tractor
- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You can get a tiger power generator with a cart, cord set and PTO shaft for about the same price. The tiger-power has a more advanced voltage regulation system and its weatherized.
)</font>
Hmm.. those numbers don't add up for me...
/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Wow... for about 2x the price of the northern 12.5kw unit.. you can get a tiger 10kw unit. Not sure what the cart is worth.. but I paid 45$ for a TSC carryall, and got a free pallet from their yard, and bolted my 1000$ northern genny to the pallet, and the pallet to the carry-all. I also bought an eurocardan ( itally? ) pto shaft from TSC for 75$ vs the 120$ pto shaft from northern. My shiopping from northern was 100-150$.. can't remember...so my deal cost me 1275$.. plus I dropped another 55$ on a 35' super HD power cable from the local electric supply house... so 1330$ Looks like the difference is about 500$ for wheels and active regulation, and 2.5kw less power output....
Soundguy
)</font>
Hmm.. those numbers don't add up for me...
/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Wow... for about 2x the price of the northern 12.5kw unit.. you can get a tiger 10kw unit. Not sure what the cart is worth.. but I paid 45$ for a TSC carryall, and got a free pallet from their yard, and bolted my 1000$ northern genny to the pallet, and the pallet to the carry-all. I also bought an eurocardan ( itally? ) pto shaft from TSC for 75$ vs the 120$ pto shaft from northern. My shiopping from northern was 100-150$.. can't remember...so my deal cost me 1275$.. plus I dropped another 55$ on a 35' super HD power cable from the local electric supply house... so 1330$ Looks like the difference is about 500$ for wheels and active regulation, and 2.5kw less power output....
Soundguy
MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
Northern sells the generator cart for $450, a cord set runs about $120 and a PTO shaft another $150 or so. Thats $1700+ before shipping. No doubt it can be done cheaper if you assemble all that like you did.
MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
Northern sells the generator cart for $450, a cord set runs about $120 and a PTO shaft another $150 or so. Thats $1700+ before shipping. No doubt it can be done cheaper if you assemble all that like you did.
RonMar
Elite Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
I don't think you run your tractor at idle with a PTO generator.
You still have to bring the PTO up to 540 RPMs which for me is about 2/3 throttle.)</font>
Yes, the generator RPM will be somewhere near the rated PTO output RPM. Generator RPM determines frequency so the exact engine RPM used will be whatever gets you a 60 HZ output frequency from the genset. An injector pump governor that is not working properly or which drifts in RPM will give you frequency variations over time or as the generator load changes.
The voltage output is determined by the voltage regulator which controls the ammount of current fed to the field winding. More field current = greater magnetic field in the field windings which = greater voltage output. And of course the power generating capacity(KW Rateing) is a factor of the wire size used in the windings, the size of the brushes and the heat dissipation capacity of the assembly.
A tractor with a 2 speed PTO could be run at a lower engine RPM and still keep the genset at proper speed, provided that the engine had enough HP available at that lower RPM to drive the genset under load.
I don't think you run your tractor at idle with a PTO generator.
You still have to bring the PTO up to 540 RPMs which for me is about 2/3 throttle.)</font>
Yes, the generator RPM will be somewhere near the rated PTO output RPM. Generator RPM determines frequency so the exact engine RPM used will be whatever gets you a 60 HZ output frequency from the genset. An injector pump governor that is not working properly or which drifts in RPM will give you frequency variations over time or as the generator load changes.
The voltage output is determined by the voltage regulator which controls the ammount of current fed to the field winding. More field current = greater magnetic field in the field windings which = greater voltage output. And of course the power generating capacity(KW Rateing) is a factor of the wire size used in the windings, the size of the brushes and the heat dissipation capacity of the assembly.
A tractor with a 2 speed PTO could be run at a lower engine RPM and still keep the genset at proper speed, provided that the engine had enough HP available at that lower RPM to drive the genset under load.
RonMar
Elite Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
I don't think you run your tractor at idle with a PTO generator.
You still have to bring the PTO up to 540 RPMs which for me is about 2/3 throttle.)</font>
Yes, the generator RPM will be somewhere near the rated PTO output RPM. Generator RPM determines frequency so the exact engine RPM used will be whatever gets you a 60 HZ output frequency from the genset. An injector pump governor that is not working properly or which drifts in RPM will give you frequency variations over time or as the generator load changes.
The voltage output is determined by the voltage regulator which controls the ammount of current fed to the field winding. More field current = greater magnetic field in the field windings which = greater voltage output. And of course the power generating capacity(KW Rateing) is a factor of the wire size used in the windings, the size of the brushes and the heat dissipation capacity of the assembly.
A tractor with a 2 speed PTO could be run at a lower engine RPM and still keep the genset at proper speed, provided that the engine had enough HP available at that lower RPM to drive the genset under load.
I don't think you run your tractor at idle with a PTO generator.
You still have to bring the PTO up to 540 RPMs which for me is about 2/3 throttle.)</font>
Yes, the generator RPM will be somewhere near the rated PTO output RPM. Generator RPM determines frequency so the exact engine RPM used will be whatever gets you a 60 HZ output frequency from the genset. An injector pump governor that is not working properly or which drifts in RPM will give you frequency variations over time or as the generator load changes.
The voltage output is determined by the voltage regulator which controls the ammount of current fed to the field winding. More field current = greater magnetic field in the field windings which = greater voltage output. And of course the power generating capacity(KW Rateing) is a factor of the wire size used in the windings, the size of the brushes and the heat dissipation capacity of the assembly.
A tractor with a 2 speed PTO could be run at a lower engine RPM and still keep the genset at proper speed, provided that the engine had enough HP available at that lower RPM to drive the genset under load.
Here are some similar links:
