tillerkiller
Silver Member
Turn on your TV while on the generator and see how it looks, they are supposed to be notorious for showing poor power quality. I do not know what bothers them, just that they are finicky.
Generator PTO Generator - Lights Flicker
- Thread starter teg33
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Shimon
Platinum Member
What else is being powered at the same time as the lights?
Certain loads can cause problems for the voltage regulator in the genset such as reactive loads (fluorscent lighting, microwaves, motors). Your generator probably has capacitor excitiation which isn't very good at maintaining voltage. So when you have a motor starting then the engine droops which leads to loss of freq and volts until the governor on the engine gets the rpms back up. Capacitor excitation is cheap but slow to respond.
I would run the genset with only resistive loads to see if the flickering goes away. Plug in as many electric heaters and incadescent light bulbs to see if you still have flickering. If you do then work on the pto shaft alignment. If the flickering goes away then start to add your reactive loads (motors and fluorescent lights) and see if the problem shows up. If it does then you will have to live with it.
Certain loads can cause problems for the voltage regulator in the genset such as reactive loads (fluorscent lighting, microwaves, motors). Your generator probably has capacitor excitiation which isn't very good at maintaining voltage. So when you have a motor starting then the engine droops which leads to loss of freq and volts until the governor on the engine gets the rpms back up. Capacitor excitation is cheap but slow to respond.
I would run the genset with only resistive loads to see if the flickering goes away. Plug in as many electric heaters and incadescent light bulbs to see if you still have flickering. If you do then work on the pto shaft alignment. If the flickering goes away then start to add your reactive loads (motors and fluorescent lights) and see if the problem shows up. If it does then you will have to live with it.
cheesehead
Silver Member
What is loading the line when you see the flickering? This information would investigate three "guesses":
1.) Too little load for the regulation circuitry. Some solid state regulation schemes need 10% load (1000 watts in your case) of load to form enough circuit feedback to properly regulate.
2.) Your flickering could be caused by a load that is varying it's current/power factor requirements. This situation will be very visible if you're running at or above the current carrying capacity of connections between the generator and your load(s). In this case, it would be good to know how you are connected to between the generator and what length and size wire run you have going to the load(s).
You probably already know that sizing motor starting currents on a generator require allocation of around 2.5kW per rated electric motor horsepower. This drives a need to manage loading when switching in things like well pumps and air conditioners as then have very high surge requirements.
1.) Too little load for the regulation circuitry. Some solid state regulation schemes need 10% load (1000 watts in your case) of load to form enough circuit feedback to properly regulate.
2.) Your flickering could be caused by a load that is varying it's current/power factor requirements. This situation will be very visible if you're running at or above the current carrying capacity of connections between the generator and your load(s). In this case, it would be good to know how you are connected to between the generator and what length and size wire run you have going to the load(s).
You probably already know that sizing motor starting currents on a generator require allocation of around 2.5kW per rated electric motor horsepower. This drives a need to manage loading when switching in things like well pumps and air conditioners as then have very high surge requirements.
Good ideas, let me respond to all.
1) A flicker when a motor starts or the load changes wouldn't bother me, this is a constant flicker but with varying intensity from quite annoying to almost not there.
2) I've tried various loads. Starting with pure resistive load drawing 500W on one side and 800W on the other side. Flicker worse at these light loads. After more load, a mixture of resistive (water heater) and reactive (refrig and freezer compressors), the flickering was reduced. I tested the microwave by itself and didn't notice much difference.
3) Chuck might be onto something. I am temporarily wired into the generator feed circuit that was previously used for a 5kW generator. Although I have a #6 gen cord, the house wire it connects to is only 12-guage NMB. Length is ~50 feet. Could this cause the problem when running light resistive loads?
4) I have tried the well pump but not as part of the flicker checks. No AC connected. I did start the refrig and freezer seperately and the system watt meter showed the surge and then returned to a steady state which indicated to me everything started okay.
Keeps the thoughts coming.
1) A flicker when a motor starts or the load changes wouldn't bother me, this is a constant flicker but with varying intensity from quite annoying to almost not there.
2) I've tried various loads. Starting with pure resistive load drawing 500W on one side and 800W on the other side. Flicker worse at these light loads. After more load, a mixture of resistive (water heater) and reactive (refrig and freezer compressors), the flickering was reduced. I tested the microwave by itself and didn't notice much difference.
3) Chuck might be onto something. I am temporarily wired into the generator feed circuit that was previously used for a 5kW generator. Although I have a #6 gen cord, the house wire it connects to is only 12-guage NMB. Length is ~50 feet. Could this cause the problem when running light resistive loads?
4) I have tried the well pump but not as part of the flicker checks. No AC connected. I did start the refrig and freezer seperately and the system watt meter showed the surge and then returned to a steady state which indicated to me everything started okay.
Keeps the thoughts coming.
DAP
Veteran Member
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- 1,180
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- JD LX288 and a B7800
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Doug, the B2400 is 18 PTO HP. The way it has been explained to me by various dealers, and seems to make sense, is that you need approximately 20HP to get the full rated current from a 10kW generator. However, if your load is less than 10kW then a smaller tractor will work just fine. In fact, some of the advice was to buy a bit bigger generator in order to improve the surge performance.
There is absolutely no indication that the tractor is working hard or loading down, even with 7kW of load. Also, as mentioned all spec readings (frequency, voltage, THD) are right on the money. I haven't seen anything to indicate there is a HP sizing issue. Would there be some other test you would recommend? )</font>
Under these conditions, the tractor is not the device that might bog down.
The only test I would recommend would be to slap that badboy onto a pto shaft that is providing 22 or greater hp.
I disagree with the 'tail-wagging-the-dog' comments by the dealers - they have their incentives. Just seems to me that if you don't meet the specifications then you wont meet the performance numbers.
Keep us posted ... and when I get my 7500 watt hooked up, I'll let you know the outcome ... I should be mounting the unit on a carry all fork within the next coupla days ... (gotta cut a PTO shaft methinks)...
There is absolutely no indication that the tractor is working hard or loading down, even with 7kW of load. Also, as mentioned all spec readings (frequency, voltage, THD) are right on the money. I haven't seen anything to indicate there is a HP sizing issue. Would there be some other test you would recommend? )</font>
Under these conditions, the tractor is not the device that might bog down.
The only test I would recommend would be to slap that badboy onto a pto shaft that is providing 22 or greater hp.
I disagree with the 'tail-wagging-the-dog' comments by the dealers - they have their incentives. Just seems to me that if you don't meet the specifications then you wont meet the performance numbers.
Keep us posted ... and when I get my 7500 watt hooked up, I'll let you know the outcome ... I should be mounting the unit on a carry all fork within the next coupla days ... (gotta cut a PTO shaft methinks)...
Soundguy
Old Timer
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- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( And yes, those 2 hp will make a difference, trust me. Further, running something like a generator at MINIMUMS is an invitation to lack luster performance.
)</font>
While he can't runit at full load, if he runs it at a lower load.. one using less than his pto is rated for.. should be fine.
Nothing wrong with having more gen -or- more tractor than you need. I'd rather run a 13kw gen at 8kw than run an 8kw gen at 8kw. etc..
And having more 'tractor' than you need helps with hi-wattage loads that kick on and off.. like motors. For instance.. If I use my ford 5000 to run my 13kw genny, there is -0- change int he engine running when i drop a motor load on it. Same test with my 8n makes the governor jerk to compensate..e tc... that's the difference in running it on a 27hp machine vs a 71 hp machine..
Soundguy
Soundguy
)</font>
While he can't runit at full load, if he runs it at a lower load.. one using less than his pto is rated for.. should be fine.
Nothing wrong with having more gen -or- more tractor than you need. I'd rather run a 13kw gen at 8kw than run an 8kw gen at 8kw. etc..
And having more 'tractor' than you need helps with hi-wattage loads that kick on and off.. like motors. For instance.. If I use my ford 5000 to run my 13kw genny, there is -0- change int he engine running when i drop a motor load on it. Same test with my 8n makes the governor jerk to compensate..e tc... that's the difference in running it on a 27hp machine vs a 71 hp machine..
Soundguy
Soundguy
DAP
Veteran Member
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- JD LX288 and a B7800
Ummm ... while there could be lots of reasons, he WAS complaining about the product (electricity in this case) performance.
It certainly is a possibility that either the tractor, the generator or BOTH are undersized.
It certainly is a possibility that either the tractor, the generator or BOTH are undersized.
More food for thought....
I'm wondering if the tractor governor could be at least part of the problem. I believe the B2400 has a mechanical type governor (does anyone know for sure?). How well do these regulate the engine speed (which determines PTO speed) and could this be causing a flicker?
Thanks again
I'm wondering if the tractor governor could be at least part of the problem. I believe the B2400 has a mechanical type governor (does anyone know for sure?). How well do these regulate the engine speed (which determines PTO speed) and could this be causing a flicker?
Thanks again
George2615
Super Member
3) Chuck might be onto something. I am temporarily wired into the generator feed circuit that was previously used for a 5kW generator. Although I have a #6 gen cord, the house wire it connects to is only 12-guage NMB. Length is ~50 feet. Could this cause the problem when running light resistive loads?
Are you saying your #6 gen cord is connected to a 12 Gauge 50' lead cord? If so that could be your problem. 12 Ga. is only rated for 20 amps. If you have an ammeter, check each leg in your panel box where it's connected. I think you'll see over a 20 amp load when you see the lights flickering.
Are you saying your #6 gen cord is connected to a 12 Gauge 50' lead cord? If so that could be your problem. 12 Ga. is only rated for 20 amps. If you have an ammeter, check each leg in your panel box where it's connected. I think you'll see over a 20 amp load when you see the lights flickering.