PTO for beginners

[Torvy]

OK, today's question from a beginner...I understand the basics of PTO, back in the days of my youth I helped out enough to know that a) PTO can be extremely dangerous and b) there are a lot of variables involved in using them.

My situation is such that I will not ever by a Snow Blower again. (I lived in the north for about 1/2 of my life and I don't miss the snow very often...the cold, I like)

In the tractors I am considering the PTO HP runs anywhere from 20 to 42. I think they all run at 540 rpm ,IIRC. They all have PTO, but there are differences.

I need help for me (and hopefully for other noobs) understanding what I want and what I need. Essentially, the pros and cons and uses of each type.

Also, I don't think I need a mid-PTO for my uses. As I mentioned, I will not be using a snow blower and I also have no use for a mid-mount mower as I will be doing no finish mowing at all. Are there other implements that typically use a mid-PTO that I should consider? (again, our 18+ acres is about 80% wooded, so anything to do with small-scale forestry and property maintenance is on my plate.)

Right now the list of possible implements to use with the tractor: Rotary Cutter, Post Hole Digger, Box Blade, Tree Shears and/or puller, small tiller, FEL with bucket and grappler. Outside chance we get a backhoe at some point.

Independent vs Live PTO....my recollection is essentially that with Independent you have a lever or switch that engages the PTO when you want it to run. Otherwise, it is effectively in neutral. Live runs when the engine runs and you use a 2-stage clutch to change gears with or without stopping the PTO depending on if you fully engage the clutch. So, experts, please clear up any misunderstandings I have on this and give some pros/cons for why one or the other is better.

Thanks!

 

[jeff9366]

I don't think I need a mid-PTO for my uses. Our 18+ acres is about 80% wooded, so anything to do with small-scale forestry and property maintenance is on my plate.

Working in woods a mid-PTO is an encumbrance subject to damage.


Independent vs Live PTO....my recollection is essentially that with Independent you have a lever or switch that engages the PTO when you want it to run. Otherwise, it is effectively in neutral. Live runs when the engine runs and you use a 2-stage clutch to change gears with or without stopping the PTO depending on if you fully engage the clutch.

Your understanding is perfect.

Mowing thick brush or tall grass with an independent PTO it is often useful to use full throttle to power the mower, while slowing forward progress of the tractor.

When using a roto-tiller you may want 1/2 to 3/4 power to the tiller, depending on tiller weight and width, while creeping forward with the tractor. HST is ideal for roto-tilling.

About 90% of compact tractors are sold with HST transmissions. I believe HST transmissions are always paired with an independent PTO.

Two things that impair the resale value of a compact tractor are a traditional clutch-and-gear transmission and the absence of a Front End Loader.

Order an optional $75 rear/center drawbar, buy a clevis grab hook for the drawbar, ($24 at Tractor Supply) and 5/16" grade 70 chain in 8' + 12' lengths, with a 5/16" chain grab hook on one end and a 5/16" chain slip hook on the other end, for towing trees. Infrequently you will join the two chain lengths.

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No compact tractor I know of has the weight to effectively use a tree shear, which are skid steer tools sometimes used on 6,000 pound + bare weight tractors.

A Bucket Spade can be very useful on a 4,000 pound bare weight tractor.

Front-End Loader - BUCKET SPADE TODAY // FEL BUCKET ATTACHMENT

I am a fan of Bucket Solutions' clamp-on Bucket Spade. It is

www.tractorbynet.com

 

[oosik]

My concerns were - obtaining implements of the proper size to match the PTO hp.

 

[gstrom99]

Are you considering a new, or antique tractor? Most new(ish) tractors all have live PTO, and most also have a mid-PTO. Live/Independent PTO is awesome - insist on that (I may have the names mixed up - but you do not want to have one that requires the trans to be in gear and clutch out - to operate). If you have, and don't use, the mid-PTO, that's OK. The grapple and tree shear options may require some extra hydraulics. PTO horsepower rating is an indication of the strength of the gearbox and HP needed to properly run it well. Look at the Cat rating of the 3 point, so all of your attachments can be run w/o messing with bushings.

 

[workinonit]

You want independent PTO. Live and transmission driven PTO are a thing of the past as far as I'm concerned. When I engage my PTO it is similar to a soft start motor in that it feathers in. I still rewduce RPM prior to engaging and disengaging. My new flail mower has free wheel built in so it doesn't affect the clutch on my PTO.

 

[workinonit]

What tractors have live PTO? All JD tractors I can think of or know of have a switch or lever to engage the PTO independent of the transmission clutch.

 

[Torvy]

My concerns were - obtaining implements of the proper size to match the PTO hp.

My plan is to do it the other way around. Once I fully determine what implements I am going to need/want, then I will see if I can find a tractor that is capable of handling the load. Of course, there is always the 'next best thing' but I think I will be busy enough to live within my means and ignore most of that...besides, the home boss manages the purse strings.

 

[ericm979]

Some lower end Kubotas have live PTO. I'm sure there are others.

The independent PTO is handy if you will be running a PTO chipper or other stationary implement. You can turn the PTO on and off while standing next to the tractor rather than having to get on to operate the clutch.

540 rpm is the standard PTO speed in the US for compact tractors and their implements. Some tractors and implements in Japan used 1000 rpm. 1000 rpm is also common for larger ag tractors. Some compact tractors have two speed PTOs with one 540 and one a faster speed like 750. The faster PTO speed lets you run the engine slower to get 540 at the PTO. That can be useful for operating implements that don't need full power, letting you run quieter and save fuel. My Branson has a two speed PTO. The tach is marked for 540 PTO rpm for each speed.

 

[jeff9366]

What tractors have live PTO? All JD tractors I can think of or know of have a switch or lever to engage the PTO independent of the transmission clutch.

Kubota L2501 with gear transmission. L2501 is one of Kubota's highest volume models in USA. Many in central Florida are sold as "mowers" with 2-WD and traditional clutch & gear transmissions in combination with a 'live' PTO.

 

[jeff9366]

My plan is to do it the other way around. Once I fully determine what implements I am going to need/want, then I will see if I can find a tractor that is capable of handling the load.

Settle on your tractor first.

As you recognize new needs research implements carefully and buy them one at a time. T-B-N is a good place to research.

Your tractor knowledge base and operating moxie will expand even if you operate but one implement.