PTO engagement using a rotary mower

[arizona98tj]

I have a MF 1529 that has both a PTO lever as well as a PTO egagement switch on the dash. Today, I put a 5' King Kutter rotary mower on the tractor. Per the owner's manual, I engage the PTO lever and then push/turn the PTO switch. At an idle of 1200 RPM, the torque shock is enough to make me never want to turn it on again. Am I doing something wrong or is the acceptable norm now to just hammer the PTO attached implement? As a kid, my Dad would have smacked me into next week if I had done that to his PTO driven equipment.

 

[BKBoiss]

I don't have an answer but I do know what you mean. When I pull the switch for the PTO on my jd2520 it makes the whole mower twist and jump at a dead idle. The DX25 case I had before had a lever I could slowly engage and was very smooth.

 

[4570Man]

On my old tractor you could slowly let out on the clutch and it wouldn't jerk them as bad, but these electronic switches jerk them hard.

 

[oosik]

My PTO lever is like a slip clutch. Engagement is always soft, slow & smooth.

 

[TripleR]

It appears to be the new "norm" with the push button engagement systems, I prefer the old style lever. My favorite was on our Case CX80, you moved the lever from "OFF" to a mid gate, left it there a few seconds while it got the machine slowly spinning the to "ON" for a very soft startup.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I would engage the push button then see if I couldn't slowly engage the PTO lever. On my LS which is geared, I can feather in the PTO with the clutch after pulling up on the PTO engage electronic button. On my brother in laws New Holland 2310, you can feather in the PTO using the PTO lever. His Hydrostatic drive has no clutch to use as a feathering agent but the PTO lever can be feathered in. It took me a while driving it to find out that you could feather it by slipping the PTO clutch. Brother in law has been just popping it in and if above 1200 rpm it would usually shear the pin.
Like said, try to slowly engage the lever and see what happens.

 

[JWR]

Interesting. I have not used a tractor that had BOTH the lever and the electromechanical pull button for engaging the PTO. Seems strange why they would have both. In any event, using a MF2660 larger tractor and 7ft bushhog, (which has only the lever, no button) my practice is to lower engine rpm to idle or near it when I engage the PTO. This minimizes stress on everything involved and has no downside to doing it that way. This larger hog has a slip clutch and even doing it as I described there is always a squeek from the momentary slippage of the slip clutch when it suddenly engages. Same was ture on my JD4700 with a 6ft hog and slip clutch. I have 2 smaller ones , a 4' and 5' bush hog each one driven by a Kubota B2150. These have no slip clutch and lack a truly independent PTO (PTO is not running when the clutch is fully depressed.)I do the same thing with them, cut RPM at time of engagement and then ramp back up once the lurch is over with. Both these Kubota's require clutch depression in order to put the PTO in gear. None of them seem that bad to me. May be good idea to have an experienced 3rd party try yours & see if it appears 'normal' to them.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Interesting. I have not used a tractor that had BOTH the lever and the electromechanical pull button for engaging the PTO. Seems strange why they would have both. In any event, using a MF2660 larger tractor and 7ft bushhog, (which has only the lever, no button) my practice is to lower engine rpm to idle or near it when I engage the PTO. This minimizes stress on everything involved and has no downside to doing it that way. This larger hog has a slip clutch and even doing it as I described there is always a squeek from the momentary slippage of the slip clutch when it suddenly engages. Same was ture on my JD4700 with a 6ft hog and slip clutch. I have 2 smaller ones , a 4' and 5' bush hog each one driven by a Kubota B2150. These have no slip clutch and lack a truly independent PTO (PTO is not running when the clutch is fully depressed.)I do the same thing with them, cut RPM at time of engagement and then ramp back up once the lurch is over with. Both these Kubota's require clutch depression in order to put the PTO in gear. None of them seem that bad to me. May be good idea to have an experienced 3rd party try yours & see if it appears 'normal' to them.

Probly the lever engages the gears to the pto stub and the button slams the clutch shut. Slip engagement of the clutch probably wears it more. I have a manual clutch and let it in pretty quick at low rpm with light inertial loads. Starting heavy inertial loads are clutch wear that cant be avoided. I try to use the very lowest rpm that wont stall the engine.

 

[von-mil]

I don't know if it helps or not but what I try to do is manually, by hand, extend the blades to their straight-out cutting position before starting up the tractor. With the mower still on its dolly this is easy and safe to do. Combined with always engaging the PTO at the lowest possible RPM, this eliminates most of the bouncing that I used to get when starting the mower.

 

[CobyRupert]

I don't know if it helps or not but what I try to do is manually, by hand, extend the blades to their straight-out cutting position before starting up the tractor. With the mower still on its dolly this is easy and safe to do. Combined with always engaging the PTO at the lowest possible RPM, this eliminates most of the bouncing that I used to get when starting the mower.

Interesting.

If I had to guess, I'd say that helps with the blades being balanced so you don't get as much shuddering, but I'd say that with the blades fully extended it also (slightly) increases the shock and amount of torque required to bring the blades up to speed.

 

[hosspuller]

Interesting.

If I had to guess, I'd say that helps with the blades being balanced so you don't get as much shuddering, but I'd say that with the blades fully extended it also (slightly) increases the shock and amount of torque required to bring the blades up to speed.

Actually I would say extending the swinging blades out would DECREASE shock & toque because at initial movement, the blades will rotate backward from their inertia. For a distance of about a blade length at the blade pivot, the blade mass is acting closer to the gearbox. Only after centrifugal force overcomes friction and air resistance does the blade move to full extension.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I don't know if it helps or not but what I try to do is manually, by hand, extend the blades to their straight-out cutting position before starting up the tractor. With the mower still on its dolly this is easy and safe to do. Combined with always engaging the PTO at the lowest possible RPM, this eliminates most of the bouncing that I used to get when starting the mower.

Actually I would say extending the swinging blades out would DECREASE shock & toque because at initial movement, the blades will rotate backward from their inertia. For a distance of about a blade length at the blade pivot, the blade mass is acting closer to the gearbox. Only after centrifugal force overcomes friction and air resistance does the blade move to full extension.

Yes. ... A quarter to half turn at much reduced inertia before it starts to increase. Great idea.

 

[LD1]

My MX has a lever to engage the PTO that dont require clutching. It slams things into motion just like an electric switch would. I dont like it and dont operate that way.

Tractor still has a clutch with disengages the PTO. So I clutch, engage PTO, then slowly let out clutch, just like old school.

Stuff without alot of inertia, like the 54" tiller, or post hole digger....it does fine without clutching, but not a bushhog.

 

[arizona98tj]

Thank you for the responses. Unless I missed it, no one responded that has a Massey with the same PTO control configuration as mine. I hesitate to perform engagement in reverse order (push the button, then move lever) as the owner's manual is quite adamant not doing that. I want to think I read in a forum some time ago (before I had the rotary cutter) that gear grinding is the result of doing it in reverse. I didn't mention it but my 1529 is the hydrostatic drive model so no clutch pedal. Sure wish there was a way to soften the PTO engagement.

 

[Scut 4 Big Bucks]

I just picked up a 4' Land Pride rotary mower today, to use with my Massey GC1715. I read this thread before I bought it, and was wondering if my unit would do the same. Hooked it up this afternoon, and yes, it is quite a raquet when the rotary mower starts up. Doesn't seem right, but that's what is does. Not something you want to start and stop frequently, as I just kept the mower "on" when going from weed patch to weed patch.

 

[arizona98tj]

Not something you want to start and stop frequently, as I just kept the mower "on" when going from weed patch to weed patch.

That is bascially what I ended up doing yesterday afternoon when I took it out for a test run. I didn't like doing it that way but it seemed to be the lesser of two evils.

 

[JWR]

Hey guys, I would not stress out too much on this rotary cutter engagement noise thing. Without being there, I can't say for sure what you are experiencing is "normal" but I have never seen a bush hog that did not raise a big racket when you first turn on the pto. I've owned at least 4 and used them on 3 different varieties and sizes of tractors from a B2150 Kubota to a MF2660 to a JD4700. Never heard of one that caused a problem or damaged a tractor due to the start-up. Sure, ease it on to the extent that you have control to start the rotation, but beyond that don't worry.

 

[stuckmotor]

It sounds to me like the pto system was fine until MF improved it until it was broke.

 

[Ford850]

Adding a slip clutch to the rotary mower, if it has a shear pin now, might help reduce the shock.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Adding a slip clutch to the rotary mower, if it has a shear pin now, might help reduce the shock.

I would think that if the clutch slipped at startup, it would slip badly when mowing.
If the OP is worried about gear damage, then the best thing to do is just follow the OEM manual and throttle it down till it is just above stalling when the PTO is engaged. This might require a couple of tries to get it just right without over revving. I don't think it is going to damage either the tractor or mower even though it makes a ton of racket.