PT Steering Project

[MossRoad]

The current steering valve provides hydraulic pressure to the loader aux pto valve through a power beyond port if you remove the steering valve you will have to find a new power source for the loader aux pto valve. It also provides steering priority over that valve. You need a power source for the loader valve so why not off of the new steering valve

 

[Clumber]

As MossRoad said, the main use/need of a spinner knob is one handed turning while operating the loader... However, I rarely use the knob anymore. I have weak wrists and it get painful after a while. There seems to be more "resistance" to turning from the steering wheel than seems necessary for hydraulic steering. Even frequent two hand turning is tiresome sometimes. Does anyone know what causes the resistance? Is it tune-able? I will watch this thread with interest. I think that the handle bar and the "stick" approaches are worth consideration.

 

[MuncyBob]

Spinner knob is a must have for me too. I understand the comments on how it may be detrimental to some users. Personally, I get more wrist pain from using a computer mouse than I do the knob.

 

[woodlandfarms]

So I don't know squat about hydraulics compared to JJ and the rest of the gang, but I wonder if there would be a better control system than agricultural hydraulics. Maybe aircraft or manufacturing controls where control is much more precise and necessary.

I feel you can do this but IMO you are going to have to cut off the control panel, probably where it attaches to the body and fab up a new goer with new guage positions .

 

[J_J]

For those that have never seen the inside of a steering valve. This one does not have the PB port.

Char-Lyn Hydraulic Steering Valve Autopsy - YouTube

 

[MossRoad]

Well, for starters, the machines steer much more easily at full throttle. 3600 RPM gas engines are meant to be run at 3600 RPMs, so make sure you're running at full throttle. Anything less and you aren't running the engine's cooling fan fast enough to keep the engine cool, which can lead to heat build up in the engine and lessen engine life.

2nd, I wonder if a larger diameter steering wheel would help? More leverage = easier turning. Some math genius here do the calculations and see how much leverage you would gain with a 1" or 2" diameter gain in a steering wheel.

Or, let's post pictures of where the spinner knobs are mounted.

Here's mine. It's a tad inside the ring of the steering wheel. I wonder if mounting it farther out from the center would gain significant leverage to decrease the force needed to turn the wheel. Of course, you'd have to be sure your won't be smacking the joystick with your knuckles.

 

[J_J]

Aircraft , tanks and a lot of things use HYD because it is the best thing for low power input to high power output at the moment.

On the subject of spinner knobs, I always mount mine at about the 270 degree position with wheels pointed at 000.

 

[Bob999]

Why does one need a Power beyond valve if one dosn t use the lift valve while steering? I don t think you would but that may be hard to keep form doing.

I think the use of power beyond ensures that steering has priority over lift/tilt. Because steering and lift/tilt are powered by the same pump, and because safety demands steering priority(in my opinion), then the appropriate implementation is power beyond rather than feeding steering and lift/tilt directly from the common pump.

 

[MossRoad]

Right. Think about if your ran one pressure hose to the front of the tractor and put a TEE in it to feed a steering valve and the loader valve. You're steering along and open the FEL valve and your steering goes bye-bye without some sort of priority flow divider. Why add a priority flow divider when you can get the same effect with one valve that has a power beyond port?

 

[stray]

Ok so at this I do not really need a power beyond valve. Right? Just do not expect to steer while lifting, curling or locking a quick plate in. Or is there more to it than that? In this project let us say to avoid confusing that the steering valve must be removed and a leaver installed.
Also I do understand about the full throttle rpm thing helping the steering valve operate easer. I even redesigned the spinner knob to be further out than the one moss pictured. You just want see the reasoning behind this project till consequences happen to you. If you have the power in your arm with no pain you are just going to keep cranking the wheel. As did I. It might be this never takes enough toll on you to be a concern. I know this. Good Luck! The thing is steering must go and leaver is to be installed. That is my reality.
Thanks for covering these other things just want to keep on the track I intended. Steering NO-- Leaver YES. Now someone write another paragraph on the advantages of a steering valve. That would be hilarious (funny). LOL. Love you guys. Merry Christmas.
PS. seriously don t mind me. Talk about steering wheels all you want to. I am having a good time here.

 

[cqaigy2]

Interesting project!

I seem to be turning and operating the FEL almost constantly. I tried out the spinner but kept catching my fingers on it and jamming them, I'm kind of a klutz, and didn't really seem to need it.

 

[Clumber]

Interesting project!

I seem to be turning and operating the FEL almost constantly. I tried out the spinner but kept catching my fingers on it and jamming them, I'm kind of a klutz, and didn't really seem to need it.

I wound plastic tape around the base of knob and the steering wheel to keep from loosening. This also solved the issue of catching fingers on it.

 

[cqaigy2]

I wound plastic tape around the base of knob and the steering wheel to keep from loosening. This also solved the issue of catching fingers on it.

Nice, Id have never thought to do that.

 

[MossRoad]

Ok so at this I do not really need a power beyond valve. Right?

If you do not get a lever valve with a power beyond port built into it, you will have to find another way to feed power to the loader valve. That will require a TEE fitting (to split the flow to both the steering lever valve and the loader valve), two hoses to feed each valve from that tee, another tee to split the return line and two more hoses to route return fluid from the new lever valve and loader valve back to the tee,

If you get a steering lever valve with a built in power beyond port, you will need one hose to feed the loader valve.... that's it. It equates to two tees and four hoses with 10 fittings VS one hose and two fittings. Much much simpler and less expensive to get your new steering lever valve with a built in power beyond port, in my opinion.

Someone else chime in here if I'm missing something please.

 

[SpringHollow]

The only problem I have with the spinner knob is that the side opening for a button cuff can catch on it when steering normally. So I have to be a little careful when wearing long sleeves which is most of the time when doing tractor work. It is not an issue in cold weather when wearing a coat.

Ken

 

[MossRoad]

I have not steered "normally" since I installed my spinner knob. Maybe once or twice just to remember what it feels like, but really, never during normal operations.

 

[MossRoad]

Just for fun, here's what the inside of the steering valve on a JD340 looks like, which, as far as I can tell, is the exact same valve.


Pretty complicated valve with 5 sets of seals. No wonder it costs a thousand bucks.

 

[stray]

I am in complete agreement that a power beyond valve is needed or at least be best. But just for the “fun of it” what would happen or not happen if say I just put a cheap log splitter valve on it with no power beyond, no detent, just a straight 3 position 4 way valve. Pressure would flow straight through TO the lift, tilt, quick attach valve when the cheap simple valve is in the neutral position you know (open center). Now it could mess with relief settings is one thing. By answering this it will help us understand power beyond. Curious to know why it would not at least half way try to function. Or what might tear up?
Is power beyond a check valve? Is it a regulator? It would be good to know what is going on when this valve works. Maybe as I research I will be able to answer my own question. But right now I do not have a complete understanding.
I will go ahead and ad this but do not concentrate on this and forget about the above concern.
Take a rope and tie it around you waist. Now take your left arm and stick it down through the rope.
Now leave it there and go out and design a steering system for that condition.

 

[MossRoad]

On a valve there is high pressure in and low pressure out back to the tank. You can't feed another valve from that low pressure port.

 

[MossRoad]

We have come to the point where further education is needed. :laughing:

I have referred to this in the past, and have re-read parts of it over the years. It is the U.S. Army Field Manual FM 5-499 for hydraulics. It is great reading for all Power Trac owners and will really help anyone that has any questions about hydraulic theory.

I would attach it here, but it is 1.2M in size, so here is a link to it. Download it to your PC for safe keeping.

http://www.derijcke.com/dl/manual.pdf

Read chapter 2 for a starter.