Pro union/Anti Union ?

/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #81  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> Maybe we should move this subject a little off base and discuss Social Security????? </font>
Junkman seems to have disappeared.
I don't know what social security the US has but maybe he is hiding out with lots of aliases collecting social sercurity. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
)</font>

Daedong, I know the cultural differences between our two nations are vast, but obviously you didn't realize that Social Security is when a group of armed individuals go out together to a social event. By having our sidearms with us, we are obviously Secure and by going in groups we are being Social. Hence, SOCIAL SECURITY.
 
/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #83  
That would be when I trade my labor all weekend doing "honey do projects" in exchange for a little union with my wife . . .
 
/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #84  
I'm Anti-Union & Anti-Onion, just don't call me Auntie Dave.

Been a United Steel Worker and a Teamster while in college, and I agree with most of the anti-union statements made above.

Now for the important issue: when did fajitas become onion dominated at the expense of peppers? Man, you get some sizzling beef or chicken on a bed of onions with a single sliver of bell pepper. I decided to fight back. I make fajitas at home, and ignore that restaurant junk. We have a pepper garden with green, red & purple bells, jalapeno, chile, Hungarian wax, habanero, banana, garden salsa, cherry hot, & super cayanne peppers. I add a token onion, but I get that at Safeway. Depending on the pepper mixture, your mouth may feel like it got shot up with novacaine, but that's the price you pay for good fajitas. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #85  
/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I will make no comments about Unions or Onions . /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #86  
For all intents and purposes, unions have outlived there necessity!!

I come from Pittsburgh and have watched that town just come apart at the seams. Most of the companies that have "given up" due to a few factors - plant infrasructure, shipping costs, and the cost of labor. One of the things that hasn't been discussed in the thread or me possibly missing it, is that with the older style union contracts (and accompanying white collar costs) negotiated sweet retirement packages for the employees. These packages provided some very nice benefits which typically were not fully funded and needed to be paid for by current company funds. Yes, some money was set aside, but as we know, the costs have gone up tremendously and guess what, we as the consumer have to pay for these costs. Just the way things work. There are more factors but in a nutshell, all of these costs drive up the cost of products.

I have worked in union shops and have been involved as part of the negotiating committee for a new contract. Very interesting process!! Very tedious process!! Very trying process!! This opened my eyes to how things work. The union steward in our shop was so pro-union that she could not separate the fact that she needed to "get the man" for as much as she thought was needed for everyone and what the rank and file really needed. Thank goodness cool heads prevailed and the rank and file thought through all of the issues and accepted a fair contract. The stewart just argued and argued that the union needed more money, more benefits, more everything without taking into consideration what the company was agreeing to and that the additional increases would be adverse to keeping the operation going. Needless to say, the steward was upset with everyone for accepting the contract and she lost some good friends over what she thought was best for them. Very silly!!

My dad worked in the steel mills for 38 years and retired on a disability retirement. He received two 13 week vacations!! Of course, he had the seniority and was lucky enough to get two 13 week vacations. From what I can remember, you were eligible to receive the 13 week vacations every five years and you had to take the time off all at once. The reason behind the extended vacation was to get more union employees. So, let me try to noodle the math. 13 weeks = ~3 months. 3 months = 1/4. Four quaters a year. Four quaters times 5 years = 20 quarters. 1/20th = 5%. That means that the company would have to hire 5% more people which would increase the rank and file by 5%. 5% more union people means 5% increase in dues, etc., etc.

I have observed that over the years a lot of companies have just given up keeping a operation going due to union bulliness. Does that make the companies good guys to save the bottom line - no!! Does that make the unions bad guys for being bullies - no!! I just means that both need to have some give and take. In my opinion for the most part, the unions have been at fault for their bulliness in driving work from their area.

It is up to the individual to decide if working for a company is the right thing to do. If the current job does not meet your needs, find a new one. There are plenty of opportunities to earn a decent living. You make your life what it is, no one else. Unions protect those who do not want to take responsibility for their actions.

Enough... the CEO is beckoning me to come out to garden - it's havesting time for the market.... later.

Terry
 
/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #87  
I visited Pittsburgh last summer and was surprised to see how it was evolving into a new cleaner city. The steel mills are gone, and so is the smoke, but it seemed that Pittsburgh is making a come back.
There are still strong unions and onions out there. The teachers union is the one that comes to mine for me. Teachers work teaching for approximately half the year (185 days in MA) and when they retire, they will receive 80% to 90% of their salary for a retirement benefit if they have enough teaching time invested with the system. I was told that it is 80% in CT/MA and 90% in PA. I have no way to verify the PA figure. I do know that a friend of ours in CT claims she is making $75,000 per year as a 3rd grade classroom teacher in Manchester CT. That is $1442 per week for 52 weeks. When you deduct for the 3 summer months that they don't teach, and the Thanksgiving, Christmas, Spring break, etc., that weekly salary jumps up quite a bit. Assuming that they teach 7 of the 9 months that school is open, that works out to $2678 per week for 28 weeks of work. That is $382 per day of work!! $47.75 per hour based on a 8 hour day!! I know that this might not be the average teacher salary throughout the country. I also know that MA, CT, and NY have some of the highest paid teachers in the country. As my friend, a retired principle has said, "the teachers union is the strongest union in the country". A first year teacher in Lowell MA with a BA degree starts at $32000 and the figure goes up from there depending on the degree of education and term of service to a maximum of $62000. They retire at 80%. Lowell is considered one of the lower paying school districts.
This should bring tears to your eyes....... strong onions will do that to you every time... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #88  
Junkman, my wife just quit a career in commercial banking to become a teacher. Lowell, IN, not Lowell MA. With several advanced degrees, she is a High School teacher making $28,000. I'm sure with seniority she'd make more, but she has only been a teacher for one year. Somehow I doubt the teachers with seniority make more than double what she makes, and that is still less that you wrote about all the way through the system. But it doesn't come close to what she made as a banker, then again, she was the top producing private commercial banker at her bank so she did earn her keep. She quit because she wanted to make a difference, that's what got her to become a teacher.
 
/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #89  
I was recently threatened with being barred from an exhibition hall and having my displays thrown in the dumpster because I plugged in my own extention cord. If I wanted to stay, I was required to unplug my cord and cease work till a union electrician arrived 20 minutes later to plug it back in.

Hard for me to have any respect an organization that condones such activities.
 
/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #90  
My turn to jump in, for whatever that's worth...

My wife has a masters degree in elementary education. She spent time teaching in a Catholic school at $15,000 a year (the going rate for all private schools in this area). Wanting to get into the public schools (better pay, better insurance, better retirement), so took a job as an hourly tutor, which required her to be a certified teacher.

At the end of each school year, as internal job postings went up, she would dutifully put in for the full time classroom positions. One year, they hired someone from another school district, who was also hired in as a coach too (you've got to have priorities!). The next year, they hired a recent college graduate for the position...

Because the pay scale is based on number of years experience and amount of education, they would have been required to pay her more. The superintendent of the school district told her to her face that "how much experience or education doesn't matter, it's all about the money."

Should the school district have hired someone from within before looking to hire from outside first? The "teachers association" (is union a bad word now?) told her there was nothing they could do about it. Nothing they could do??? Isn't that they kind of things they are supposed to do? Isn't that what her dues go to pay?
 
/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #91  
Junkman
Things are different here. My wife is a school teacher and has been for several years. Her salary is just now at the level that you gave for entry level educators in your area. She teaches because she wants to, not for a high paying position. We sure would have had an easier time if her salary was what you indicated. It must be a regional thing because it is not happening around here.
 
/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #92  
As I pointed out, it is a very localized situation as to the pay scales. MA & CT are both have one of the highest entry level teacher positions. In these states, the teachers union is very powerful and gets what they want. There is a great disparity between the educational systems from state to state, as well as the teachers pay. It would be interesting if someone could find the highest ranking state for teachers pay, as well as the lowest paying. I begrudge them nothing.... I wouldn't ever be a teacher. I have lived with two of them, and they both could tell horror stories of what it is like.
 
/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #94  
AndyM, my wife didn't have any problems getting hired, but it was probably pure luck. On the other hand she has had her run ins with her teachers union. The contract says they are done at 3:15pm. One of her added duties was to make sure all the kids got on the bus. The problem was that all the kids were not loaded until about 3:30pm every day. So the lovely Mrs_Bob would stay and make sure the kids were all loaded. Being a parent, she felt it was right to make sure the kids were safe. Being a responsible adult, she felt it was right to make sure the kids were safe. Being a former senior manager, her work ethic is such that she is not done until the job is actually finished. Being a former senior manager, she felt that there was liability if a kid would have been kidnapped, injured, etc if she walked off the job before the last kid was on the bus. So then the other teachers started telling her to walk off the job when the contract said to. And then the union steward said to do that. And she would not. So she has no friends who are teachers. But she did what was right. It is a horrible shame that the other teachers and the union steward are so ignorant and cannot see that they are responsible for the kids.
 
/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #95  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ... she felt that there was liability if a kid would have been kidnapped, injured, etc if she walked off the job before the last kid was on the bus. )</font>

The only problem I see here is that by doing the right thing she has set herself up to personally take the fall liability wise, if something does happen to those kids after normal union working hours. Since by contract the teachers are probably not responsibe for thoise kids after contract hours, I would not be surprised if whatever liability insurance that the union has is not in force once normal working hours are over. And that if she were sued the union would not stand behind her because she was not on union time.

Management negotiated that contract (good or bad depending on what side you are on) so let them staff it after normal working hours. That's why the rest of the teachers are shunning her.
 
/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #96  
Mad, I think my wife would yell at you. In fact, I am sure of it. She couldn't give a rat's pitookie if the other teachers shun her, because she does her job properly and that is why she gave up a high paying career to become a teacher. She will do what's right, and she will continue to do it because it is the right thing to do. She is very anti-union, and she has told them that. Our state requires her to have the membership to get the job, but she is, and always will be, a responsible person who won't back down.
 
/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #97  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ...................Since by contract the teachers are probably not responsibe for thoise kids after contract hours, I would not be surprised if whatever liability insurance that the union has is not in force once normal working hours are over. And that if she were sued the union would not stand behind her because she was not on union time. ..............
)</font>

The union doesn't insure the teachers or the student, the school department does that. As for liability, I believe that a jury would look at the actions and decide if that is "what a logical and prudent person" would do and say yes. The contract might specify the time that you have to be at work and the time that you are allowed to leave, but I don't believe that the union could hamper you from putting in extra time. Teachers do it all the time offering extra help to students that need or want it. These are the type of teachers that deserve the high $$$, but unfortunately, the system rewards both good and bad teachers. It is called "tenure".... you can't get rid of them once they have been there for a certain period of time, no matter how bad they are, and they get the salary increases also. I have lived with two teachers, and I know first hand that they can and do make a difference when they care to....
 
/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #98  
<font color="blue"> How about you? </font>

Anti-Union, because I prefer productivity.
 
/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #99  
I am not disagreeing with your wife. I spent 3 years as a high school athletic director and was a non-union employee. But I was just trying to point out that she can probably not expect any help from the union if somethng does happen and she might even be held responsible by management's insurance or the victim. Being in the middle of two or three warring factions is not fun and could be expensive.

Laywers and insurance companies, well I don't even want to go there.
 
/ Pro union/Anti Union ? #100  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> How about you? </font>

Anti-Union, because I prefer productivity. )</font>

<font color="black"> </font>
I think Gatorboy said it all in that little sentence!
 

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