Preparing yard for trees

/ Preparing yard for trees #1  

Mean Jean

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
320
Location
Hazelridge, MB
Tractor
Kubota L1801 and Massey 65
Hi all.

Looking to prepare an area for planting.
Roughly 20 yards by 200 yards.
Currently it is all lawn.
I've got a tiller but was advised to tear out the grass first.
What is the best implement/method for tearing up lawn?

Thanks all.
 
/ Preparing yard for trees #2  
Puzzled about why you feel a need to tear up the lawn just to plant trees.

A little info about what trees you are planting, where you are located, what soil you have to work with, size of trees to be planted, etc.

What is the future maintenance planned for between the trees? That will likely dictate what soil prep is needed now.
 
/ Preparing yard for trees
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Small town North East of Winnipeg, MB.
Planting willows, poplars, spruce, pine.
All going in as saplings, no more than a foot tall.
Will be running a cultivator up and down the rows to keep the weeds back.
Fair bit of clay.

Was advised that removing the sod first will make it easier to till the area.
 
/ Preparing yard for trees #4  
That info helps.

Don't have any idea why removing the sod would be helpful, and even exposes the soil to erosion. The sod isn't your enemy here, but your friend. Exposing the soil will bring a multitude of weeds from seed that can't grow through the grass. That you don't want, and why I don't recommend using Roundup to kill everything first.

What I did (13 years ago) with 5 acre planting of oak, white pine, and white spruce was to use a single subsoiler tooth, rip the ground open along the planting strip. The following spring I hand planted the seedlings in the ripped path. Sprayed to keep the weed competition (Oust is what I used) down, and mowed between the trees to keep the tall grass down. Worked super well. The ripped ground allowed for easy dibble planting and surface water to seep in easily and keep the trees well watered.

Forty years ago, I planted a thousand black walnut trees in a plowed field. Put them in on carefully laid out 10 x 10 ft spacing and cultivated for the first 12-15 years. But the cultivating damages the roots near the surface, and I would do that again (and not that I ever will have to make that decision :) ). Erosion is the enemy with complete cultivation, as well as expensive with today's fuel prices.

Now, if you are planning a nursery then the picture changes from just planning a forest or woodlot. :)
 
/ Preparing yard for trees
  • Thread Starter
#5  
2 major benefits to removing sod:
-trees won't have to compete for water versus sod.
-need only run the cultivator every 10 days versus mowing every 5 (roughly)

Wherher its beneficial is another topic for debate.

I want to remove the sod and am seeking adise on best way.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
/ Preparing yard for trees #6  
OK, sorry to distract from your post. Roundup will last a long time too. :)

I remove sod with a rototiller.
Bucket doesn't work, and the other alternative is a sod cutter, but then you have to roll it up and carry it away. Might be able to sell it at that point.
 
/ Preparing yard for trees #7  
I think a tiller would make less of a mess, or you could plow it. That would keep some of your top soil in place. I guess it would depend on the type of grass also, whether it spreads like our Bermuda (runners) or not.

Other wise I'd have a grader come in and scrape it off.
 
/ Preparing yard for trees
  • Thread Starter
#8  
I want to avoid using strictly a tiller.
I tried that last year and the grass roots got caught in the tines.

Grader would be A1 although I want to avoid having to wait on someones help.
Makes the project drag when you are waiting on someone.

Maye a plow first.
Turn it over then bust it up with tiller?
 
/ Preparing yard for trees
  • Thread Starter
#10  
Thanks very much for the advise, I really appreciate it.
 
/ Preparing yard for trees #11  
sod plus tiller, i can understand want to remove the sod due to roots and constantly spending more time getting tiller unstuck vs tilling.

plow would cut things up, but you may still have issues of bigger chunks of grass roots. and ya might need to plow one or 2 more times pending on the roots and chunks to break them up to a point it would be less tiller work.

plowing before any tilling generally helps just pure time it takes to till any how.

if you do not have a tiller yet, then perhaps, plow,disc,harrow setup.

perhaps box blade with sacraficers down. to cut the sod up.

if you had a FEL (front end loader) with general duty bucket. if you got a small start. it would be a pain, but you might be able to use it like a sod cutter. it would be rather time consuming slow as you take small little bits and keep watch full eye in how far the bucket cuts down into the ground. but *shrugs*

if you had a backhoe, you could just use it to dig up everything around it. then move down the line and re dig everything up. and repeat a bunch of times. to break all the sod up.

many ways of doing it. it all depends on what else needs to be done on property. if ya have tiller already, then it might just be a time consuming thing of pulling roots out of the tiller till it is done. vs trying to find a better tool, vs just getting out there and doing it.

==========
as far as removing sod. just seems odd to me. more so, due to size of saplings. but perhaps this is a tree farm. about only thing i can think of reason for wanting to till up the sod. and then do repeat tilling between trees. that or the area needs to be re graded and smoothed out and tilling is part of getting everything land preped for that. and trees are just after the land gets all smoothed out and landscaped.
 
/ Preparing yard for trees #12  
boggen
Interesting, but I till sod all the time and have no problem with grass roots winding up in the tiller blades. Not sure what the difference is, but the sod is well mown lawn so no tall grasses. The grass is blue grass for the most part.
 
/ Preparing yard for trees #13  
boggen
Interesting, but I till sod all the time and have no problem with grass roots winding up in the tiller blades. Not sure what the difference is, but the sod is well mown lawn so no tall grasses. The grass is blue grass for the most part.

to me, you seem like a lucky person more often than i. perhaps when i have tilled or helped others over years. there was more compaction of the top few inches of dirt. (hard clay) and the roots would cause bigger clumps of dirt to be tossed in. and then the roots would start wrapping around everything and eventually just stop the tiller dead. ((ran out of Horse power and/or belt slipping, etc...)) maybe it was just going to fast, (tractor speed) vs how fast the PTO or engine on tiller was going. i just remember over the years having problems with sod.

an example putting in a new garden. and needing to make 2 to 4 passes over it all before finally reaching depth and getting everything fluffed up and loose.

first pass a couple inches enough to get roots, and some dirt mixed in, so the roots and any length of grass would more likely be grinded / chopped up. hit a bad spot (say thick area) and there goes the tiller...

second pass some bigger clods of roots still that have not been chewed up. and getting a couple of them jammed up in the tines and cover around the tines. and there goes the tiller...

third and forth pass easier going, just slow due to depth and pushing tiller to is max depth.

=================
perhaps explaining your steps to tilling up sod. might reveal something. that might seem like common sense, but i honestly don't know about?
 
/ Preparing yard for trees #14  
Step one is to make a slow pass with the tiller (60" on 3 ph) as deep as it will go. Sort out any rocks that kick out.
Step two, make a second pass to re-till and go a bit deeper. Toss out more rocks.
Have a fine, fluffy loose almost-powder.
Step 3, is to scoop up the loose soil with the bucket and take it to where I am spreading/filling/landscaping and need more black dirt. I like it with the grass roots mixed in as then it seems some of the grow along with the new seeding.
 
/ Preparing yard for trees #15  
black dirt, sure is easy to till, but 90% of where i have troubles. is when black top dirt is less than a couple inches deep if any black dirt at all. and trying to till through clay, with sand, and rocks mixed in here and there in spots.

black dirt, is much easier to easily bust a chunk up with a your hands vs a chunk of clay same size. black dirt i might be able to put a finger down through it even after being compacted good. while clay dirt i have. i would need a shovel. or taking a chunk and tossing down on the ground onto something else (big rock or like) to act like a wedge.


sorry for the confusion, skipping a detail of type of soil makes a large difference!
 
/ Preparing yard for trees
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Buying a tiller this weekend.
Saving about $700 by going to the States (I'm in Winnipeg, Manitoba)
Ridiculous that I can save that much money on a tiller...
Hopefully buy a plow as well.

Thought about the box scraper idea.
Also thought about using something with jagged teeth. Drag over the lawn then pile it up with a back blade.

I used a tiller last year for a few strips of lawn.
The tines got jammed up a bit with grass, not too bad though.
Still worked the thing pretty hard.

Ran the tractor in 1st gear, low.
Did 2 passes on each row.
An inch an hour, 2 feet a day...
 
/ Preparing yard for trees #17  
That is what I would do then. Just keep it that simple.

I would mow it as short as possible, load up with fuel and till till till. No point making it complicated.

If you could burn off the grass safely, that would help you and the soil out .
 
/ Preparing yard for trees #19  
What about laying down some landscaping fabric with x holes cut for the transplants.:)
 
/ Preparing yard for trees
  • Thread Starter
#20  
The fabric is a pita.
I have used several different kinds, never been happy with the results.
 

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