Power Trac PT425

[marrt]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

Oh, and one more thing (sorry), how well does the loader dig? From the PT video, it appears that the front wheels lift up and spin when you apply down pressure on the loader to dig deeper. This stops forward progress. On the BX, the same happens but you still have the larger rear wheels pushing forward and they can be locked with the differential. On the surface, this would suggest to me that the BX would be a better “digger” than the PT (although, to be fair, I realize the PT has numerous advantages in other areas). Thoughts?

 

[bubenberg]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

i better watch myself answering this one some of my former students from the ag. university where i was employed found me.

the first counter question is: which mower are you using rough or fine cut? 48 or sixty inches wide? what are you attempting to achieve?

1. lawn quality cut
2. just mowe
3. knock down the grass and start all over

1. lawn quality cut, depends on grass type, length, use of fert. and frequency of mowing.
if one wants this quality one should mowe at lest once a week to favor the under growth otherwise you kill all the new plants and the thickness and the look of your turf.

you cant' compare a belly mower (BX) cut with a free floating deck cut ... as far as quality grass mowing goes. Speed is of no essence in mowing. the height of the grass, the wetness of the grass, the density of the grass are what dictates the speed.

as posted by me before i can finish 10-11 acres in one our with my pt425 60 inch mower and two kunz acrease 57 inch trailing behind and charge 1 dollar per minute per mower and due an excellent job for my customer.

to your question of what to due because of your schedule. non rough mower spindles take a beating when you try to cut the long grass down to the expected height in one cut. this height in my area in spring is about 3.25 inches. the leftover of the grass when cutting long grass all at once, stunts the growth of the young, replacement grass and can cause a thatching problem.

if you have to cut long grass take it in increments of at least one inch at the time to restore your lawn to a nice even cut. also change direction by at least 15 degrees from the first direction of mowing.

we do horse pastures on estates even with larger mowers and we apply that same principle but with 5 inch intervals. for good density, broad leaf control and parasite control we only take contracts which allow us to mowe the pastures every 4-6 weeks during the spring and fall season.

the pt425 48 inch rough mower plus a kunz eng 5foot powered (14hps) eng. can knock down very tall grass at about 108 inches wide, (providing that you are not on a steep incline )at about 6 miles per hour without any problems.

remember most of these posted speeds by makers of mowers and tractors are to us in the mowing business hogwash. SORRY MOHAMMED i know i am cussing again.

straight line mowing has nothing to do with the tractor, mower. the operators experience is what counts. practice makes the master. fixing your eyes at a distant point and mowing toward is better then following a property or fence line.

good luck ... PLEASE stop comparing a lawn tractor with an articulated tractor .... not fair to either. kubota is great, we have several different types, very inexpensive to operate but they are not as versatile as a pt. i now have almost flipped all my kubota products trying to do what i can do with the pt425.

 

[marrt]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

Bubenberg

Thanks for the reply. Perhaps I should have included a little more information. I have 3 acres of flat terrain to mow. One acre is “lawn” and 2 acres are “pasture.” For the lawn, I want a pretty decent cut but am not all that particular. For the pasture, I’m only looking for a cut sufficient to keep the neighbors from calling the Home Owners Association. I intend to get the 60” mower and can generally mow the lawn every week to 10 days. The pasture I would like to mow as infrequently as possible…say every 3 weeks. I am considering a Kunz or Swisher tow mower to speed the pasture cutting. However, at $1500-$1700, it’s hard for a home owner like me to justify. That said, time is money and I want to mow as quickly as possible.

I like everything about the PT except the lack of a diesel engine in the 18-25 hp range and the lack of a dealer network and ready resale market. I would choose the PT in a second if I were comfortable I could easily resell it if I wanted a different tractor. I keep considering the Kubota because I know I can resell that tractor now or ten years from now. But I like the PT best.

Anyway, thanks for all your input.

 

[bubenberg]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

to mowe with the pt425 it should not take more than 1.5 hours including trimming and blowing. of the five acres with the 60 inch mower. early spring you may have to spend a little more time if you go to 10 day intervals. for that size lawn you really don't need a wing mower.

but i do know about those nice toys, oh i am sorry attachments to keep the home owners association happy.

resell value: yes that is true kubotas every where .. a friend of mine is a dealer and these used ones sit around on his lot a long time .. not your problem.

but the pt is something you buy and add on depending on your liking of toys/attachments, even i am guilty of, that i am supposed to earn a living with these machines.

if you take care of the engine (oil) and the hydrostatic system. the hoses you can replace at any hydraulic supply parts store. the kohler rep. in your area can do anything to keep you going. also pt will talk to your local lawn tractor dealer if there are any questions. i have seen people replace 3 engines 6000 hours in the prof. world with other tractors that did not have a great or no dealer net.

it is the sears, cadet and kubotas of this world that eventually stop supporting their older lines. we than have to go to the internet for these older discontinued models and year specific stupid little parts to keep these things on the lawn/road.

i have bought used/reconditioned parts from pt. also they have offered me to resell my 425 if i would upgrade to a 1845/1850. i do need the smaller machine due to my customers stupid little 48 inch gates to ten acre fenced in properties. i "sideways or lift my acrease over the top of the fence post of the gates. once this maneuver is accomplished off i go mowing at 14 feet each passing.

one more thing is you can use other mini skid attachments. i am in process of buying and adapting a loose matl. handler from ramroad ...love these finger extenders called grapplers ... i want them all ...look that site up.

call kunz and see if they know of something used

have a good sunday

 

[pajoube]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

Great commentary, thanks
PJ

 

[marrt]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

Hans,

<font color=green> but i do know about those nice toys, oh i am sorry attachments to keep the home owners association happy. </font color=green>

You know that’s not a bad idea. If I actually get the Home Owners Association to complain, then maybe I will have the leverage I need to get the Wing mower purchase past the CFO (wife). /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

<font color=green> resell value: yes that is true kubotas every where .. a friend of mine is a dealer and these used ones sit around on his lot a long time .. not your problem. </font color=green>

Do you ever see any used PT’s for sale? I wrote an email to the factory and asked if they ever have used or demo PT’s available at a discount. They didn’t answer. I’m planning a factory visit the first of next week and will ask them in person.

<font color=green> i have seen people replace 3 engines 6000 hours in the prof. world with other tractors that did not have a great or no dealer net. </font color=green>

I am not that worried about getting support. I agree the PT's appear very easy to work on (at least the 400 series). I can get a new Kohler 25HP engine for about $1500 from Northern Tool. Main reason I would like a dealer network is for the resale market. Maybe Kubota should buy PT the same way Ingersoll-Rand bought Superstav. Different products for different, but related, markets. This way, PT could put Kubota diesel’s in all their products and Kubota dealers could sell and service the product. Would greatly expand the appeal. (I should get paid for these ideas). /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

<font color=green> i have bought used/reconditioned parts from pt. also they have offered me to resell my 425 if i would upgrade to a 1845/1850 </font color=green>

Since you need the smaller tractor to navigate the small gates, why don’t you convince PT to build a Cummins 18HP A900 Diesel prototype for you to "field test" for them? I think PT is underestimating the market for a 400 series diesel version. Professionals like yourself could often justify the cost. And there are plenty of home owners who buy tractors as toys and wouldn’t mind paying the difference to have something to talk about with their friends.

By the way, I couldn’t find anything on Ramroad on Google. Do you have a link?

Thanks Hans.

 

[bubenberg]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

just in case you do not have enough attachtTOYments, here is another source: http://www.ramrodequip.com/products.html#attachments

happy drooling and thanks for the suggestions

 

[bubenberg]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

pt has only once respondet to my e-mail .... but call them and ask for chris ( son in law of owner) dan or terry service rep. and you will get satisfaction, i have many times.

 

[bubenberg]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

have spoken re: diesel engine, with chris at pt and have been told not right now. their is a good reason, that at first they build for anybody anything they wanted and found out that this takes way too much time and the re-generating cost could not be passed on to the individual customer. As an example there are some leftover items such as an atv type vehicle with two jet motors on the back to transport two patience "through the river and through the woods"...i want it now for a messily $15,000.00.

 

[Reds]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

I just finished my first experience with "PT the Lawn Mower". I was very disappointed to say the least. Going across my hills was very unsettling. My front wheel ... uphill side ... lost contact with the ground numerous times while trying to cut across my hills. It was only the front wheel which lost contact with the ground. The rear stayed planted but ... I definitely didn't like the feeling. I even put my leg out to support the machine and myself at one point. Yeah right!!!!It seems like the oscillation worked against me in this situation. So i switched to mowing up and down the hills. "PT the Lawn Mower" didn't seem to like this any better. She wasn't going to tip over ... but she wasn't going up the hills either. At least not very well. The engine really struggled while running the mower and going uphill. I had major traction problems on my hills to boot. A couple of times i had to lift the deck up in order to make it up the hill. A couple of times i had to back down the hill to try a second time. I didn't stall at anytime. But i sure was close. I never had any problems like this with my simplicity garden tractor and i was totally unprepared for this. Now maybe we can attribute this to operator in experience. When i took out my lamp post with the canopy while trying to get as close as i could to the lamp post base thats what i attributed that to. But i'm not so sure about the other problems and i'm also not ruling out anything! It's late and i can't keep my eyes open. More on this later.

 

[kcook]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

Red, this is the first real negitive I have heard, please fill us in when you can! Thanks
KCook

 

[MossRoad]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

That's interesting. Now that I think of it, Saturday, I went sideways across a small but steep slope where my front yard meets the street and another slope. The front downhill tire came up an inch or so off of the ground. I attributed it to me not knowing what I was doing, or the mower coming out of float. But it was in float. The only other thing that I can think of was that I had the tilt angled all the way back, instead of dead center when on a flat surface.

I can't take a look at it tonight due to other activities, but I will try to re-create it and photo document it some time this week.

Hang in there.

 

[kcook]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

I wondered if Red has called PT to see what they say about it?
KCook

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

Reds:
PTRich and Bubenberg have more experience with the 400 series than the rest of us, so I hope they'll chime in soon.
From what you describe, I think I've heard of some of the syndrome before. It sounds as if your deck wasn't in float, or bounced out, which I understand can happen in rough mowing on occasion. The effect is that the deck then can pick up the front, not only reducing traction, but possibly visibly raising a wheel. I don't know if the float position has any adjustment, but if it doesn't want to float properly, be sure to call Power Trac. It may be that instead of float, in heavy going they'll suggest lifting the deck so that it is light on its guide wheels, thus increasing tractor traction.
In heavy mowing, uphill, I can bog the engine on my 1845 fairly easily by pressing the pedal to the floor. As with other hydrostatic drives, its most power is when the pedal is only slightly depressed, and the engine revs stay up. I modulate mine by listening for when the mower slows considerably, and then letting up the pedal until it gains RPM. With the earplugs I've been wearing, any change in the mower whine is still noticeable. Uphill with heavy grass can slow any mower, I think, but when the revs stay up, it doesn't bog the way it does if you floor it.
PTRich? Bubenberg?

 

[kcook]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

"As with other hydrostatic drives, its most power is when the pedal is only slightly depressed, and the engine revs stay up."

Charlie is correct, as I have seen the video for the 400 PT, it does say the less peddle pressure the increase in Torque!

KCook

 

[ernemats]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

I JUST READ YOUR COMMENTS ON YOUR POWER TRAC EXPERIENCE. I ALSO HAVE SOME STEEP SLOPES I MOW WHILE GOING ACROSS THE SLOPE I HAVE NEVER HAD THE FRONT WHEEL RAISE OFF THE GROUND BUT IN FLOAT POSITION IT DOES HAVE A TENDENCY TO SLIDE SIDEWAYS A LITTLE BIT. WHEN MOWING UP AND DOWN THE SLOPE I HAVE FOUND IT BETTER TO BACK UP THE SLOPE, YOU DO NOT LOOSE TRACTION WITH THE FRONT WHEELS. I HAVE THE 422 WITH 48 INCH MOWER AND GOING UP A HILL IT DOES MAKE THE ENGINE STRAIN A BIT. I HAVE HAD MY POWER TRAC 2 YEARS AND I THINK AFTER YOU GET 50-100 HOURS ON IT THE POWER SEEMS BETTER AND ALSO THE GAS USED SEEMS TO DROP, MAYBE IT IS JUST MORE EXPERIENCE USING IT . POWER TRAC SAYS 20 DEGREE SLOPE IS THE MAX SAFE SLOPE YOU SHOULD RUN IT ON EITHER SIDEWAYS OR UP OR DOWN, I HAVE EXCEEDED THAT BUT IT DOES FEEL IFFY.

 

[MossRoad]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

Right. They said to think of the pedal as a shifter. The farther you push it, the higher the gear. But I have found this to be kind of a gray area. For instance, if I drive up to a pile of gravel with minimal foot pressure, the tractor will stop against the pile. I have to push farther on the pedal to get it going into the pile. I listen to the engine and keep pushing down until I can hear the engine start to strain. At that point, I let up a bit on the pedal. By then the bucket is usually full.

A few of the videos that I shot show this when digging out that parking space in semi frozen soil. Listen to the sound of the tractor and hydraulics as I have to push down on the pedal to get a good bite, then let up as the forward motion slows.

 

[MossRoad]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

Also, for everyone's knowledge, the Kohler engine manual for the Kohler Command 25HP motor in the PT425 says not to operate it at more than 25 degrees, or the engine might not get proper lubrication.

I don't know what the PT418 or PT422 Robbin engines are spec'd at.

 

[Reds]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

Thanks for all the replys. No I didn't get a chance to call Power Trac today. The attic fan was in need of repair (we've gone right into summer down here in Md), and today was tax d-day. Since we owe this year i put it off till the last minute. Did an excellent job if i do say so myself! Yes i am going to call Power Trac to get some ideas from them. I'm thinking my hills combined with the weight of the canopy and the oscillation of the machine caused the front (up-hill side) wheel to lose contact with the ground. Could be fluid in the tires would help with that. Maybe even moving up to a 26-12-12 filled with fluid ... if there is room. I asked the salesman prior to my purchase about this and he indicated there could be a problem with some attachments. As far as going up and down the hills, i did wonder about the mower not being in float was a problem at one point. But after i readjusted the joystick I still had a very rough time going up the hill. A lot of front wheel spin. I also wondered about the tilt position and briefly played with that. I did run out of expermination time because one of the small wheels on the front of the mower got caught in a rut and went flat. And that was the end of that. Another observation which could be a cause for lack of power. My throttle only goes about 3/4 of the way down. I was wondering if this was proper or just out of adjustment. The choke slides the full length of the slot, just not the throttle. The point about backing up the hill sounds interesting. Once i'm back up and running i'll give it a try. Now this was my first mowing of the year, and yes the grass was very high. So high that i had to slow down in some places because i could hear the engine struggle. I finished the hill with my 20" push mower and we both struggled!!!. But, it was not any higher then some previous mowings and i never had these types of problems with my GT. Engine (25hp kohler)never struggled and the wheels only slipped when wet.

 

[bubenberg]

Re: Power Trac Mowing Performance

hi moss, am so glad we got you book worms, they belief you more than when i tell them that they can do whatever the want to their tractor to make it a hill machine ...NO LUBRICATION ..no tractor ...and new engine ...great work dude