Power out, Generator on.

[Mousefield]

After a good winter with no serious storms we had a real strong wind storm yesterday afternoon. Our power went out about 4:30 PM and is still out now, which is 11:45 AM.
A few years ago we had a wind storm take out dozens and dozens of power poles in our area and we had no power for 5 days. Many trees landed on the lines and snapped the poles a few feet below the wires. After that we got a generator panel and good size generator for the house. Had the electrician put the panel in. It is nice to have power to most of the house circuits (110 volt) and even out to the barn. The generator apparently will run either 110 or 220 but not both at the same time. More important for us to have lights and plugs working rather than hot water, stove and heat pump. Got the wood stove on although it is not that cold out, got a nice sunny day happening.
Our well and pressure tank are run on a panel (separate meter) in our shop and are 220. We are thinking of getting a generator panel and 220 volt generator so we can have water. We have a 220 pump in our above ground 2000 gallon storage tank so only need to run that. It would last for a long time so don't need to run the well pump, so shouldn't need a big generator. What size generator with 220 volt have other used that would run the 220 pump?

 

[dex3361]

Take a picture of the Generator that you currently have and a close up of the name plate with all of the information. Most generators you can run both 110V and 220V at the same time. Yours may be different Then the question would be what else could you run with what you have? The info would help with advice.

 

[BobRip]

I have a 6kw generator that will run at a higher current on 110 in one mode and then lower current in the other that will give both 110 and 220. I wonder if that is what you have. Or maybe it's hooked up wrong. Send us pictures of your outlet section and switches on the generator.

 

[Mousefield]

To clarify my request. I need to get a 2nd generator for the shop. The house is over 200 ft away from the shop. Don't think it is practical to run an extension cord that far. All I am looking for is, I think, is the smallest generator that will run a 220 1/2 hp submersible pump. I would run it a few times a day for say 1/2 hour to get water to our house and two mobiles. Would also get the electrician to put in a generator panel if needed? Just wondering what others have?

 

[George2615]

I have a 10KW generator / welder. Miller Bobcat 250NT with 20HP engine. When our power goes out it will run our entire house. My 220V items I run include the well pump, shop air compressor, window A/C, and clothes dryer. The rest is 110V. You could get by with a smaller generator say 8KW but you can only run one thing at a time. Two or more 220V items may draw too much and trip out the breaker. My generator has run the window A/C and had the well pump kick on at the same time with no problem. I previously had a 5KW (6250 surge) 220 generator but it would not handle the A/C and it strained when the well pump came on. It only had a 20A breaker on the 220 side of the generator.

 

[dex3361]

I have a 6kw generator that will run at a higher current on 110 in one mode and then lower current in the other that will give both 110 and 220. I wonder if that is what you have. Or maybe it's hooked up wrong. Send us pictures of your outlet section and switches on the generator.

Bob if you hook up your genset to a transfer in the 220v mode and I feel sure it will provide 110V to ground with each hot conductor. I could be wrong but my machine is set up this way as well. In the 220 Mode it will supply 110V and 220V. Is this how yours works? Oh I have a Aurora 6500Watt Diesel.

 

[hr3]

Bob,, I have a 4200 watt that runs my 3/4 hp 220 volt pump with no problem.. I don't know if I would go any smaller.. If you are only going to run the one thing "pump" off the gen. you might ask you electrician if he could put in a 20 amp. double pole double throw switch.. "about $25.00" to use as a transfer between utility power and gen. power.. Alot cheeper than a gen. panel..

 

[TheGoose]

To answer your question....

A honda EG 3500 would be an excellent choice for your 1/2 HP Submersible. I have used that same generator to run up to a 1-HP pump, so I know it will work for your 1/2. I had a long post on here about using generators with well pumps somewhere...

 

[TheGoose]

Here is my thread: Lots of info here...

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/rural-living/159753-using-generator-power-water-well.html

 

[Lloyd_E]

I have a hyundai 7250 watt generator. It was installed to a manual panel with key circuits by a professional electrician. We have a wood stove, hot water baseboard furnace for heat - 2 zones.

This unit will power everything but the dryer. So when the power is out we can run lights in the bathroom, kitchen, family room and two bedrooms along with fridge, TV/Satelite, computer, furnace, well pump, deep freeze and coffee machine. It has 1 220v and 4 110v outlets. Output current is 27 amps with max being 54 amps. I use this to run my compressor/air tools and various power tools in the fields.

I think there is one manufactory of this style of generator with different 'branding'. Although Hyundai - I have seen at least 6 in my travels that look very close and have different manufacturers names. Also, I bought it at wall mart - I have seen same output units cheaper with the same 2 year warranty...

 

[gerard]

How big is your generator? You probably have a 220 plug (30amp) and a few 110 amp female receptacles on it. The 220 consists of two, 110 volt lines. One line goes to each side of your panel. When a breaker picks up both legs, it's 220. If it only picks up one leg, it's 110. So your generator is actually putting out a usable 220 AND 110 at the same time. Your should be able to run a normal house off a 5000 watt generator, including a 220 well pump. I power a 480 foot 220volt well, freezer, refrigerator, all house electric, and oil furnace without a problem. I have a 6250 continuous/8000watt surge generator.

You just need to make sure when your panel was wired, that both legs get picked up. If they aren't, I'd say you had a poor electrician.

 

[Carl_NH]

Mousefield,

Most all gensets provide 120 or 240V circuits except small units under 2000W or 2KW. A 5000W generator usually has a "surge rating" of say 6000W so 5000 Watts equates to 40 amps 110 V or 20 AMPS 240 V then the surge rating alllows for the higher starting current.

You have three choices -
1) get a larger genset for the house circuit and run the barn and water pump as well on one system/generator

2) Get a separate generator for the barn and water supply - a 1/2HP 240V pump will draw 7 AMPS @ 240V in operation and a little higher on startup so you will need about a 3000W as others have pointed out to run this separately.

3) Keep your existing generator and turn off some circuits and selectively run the water system in the barn on 240V (your generator should handle this if it has a 240V plug)

 

[Mousefield]

Thanks to all. A separate generator in the range of 3,000 - 3,500 runningt watts and having a 220 volt outlet seems to be what is needed for the storage tank submersible pump. Read with interest the link by TheGoose. :thumbsup: Sounds like I don't need a separete generator panel but will get the electirian to put in a generator plug. The pump panel is on an outside wall in the shop so will not be a big problem to drill a hole to the outside area for the generator. I plan on having the electrian who wired in our house generator panel to come out and add 4 more circuit breakers to it. It had 8 when I got it but does have space for 4 more. Found a few things we would like to add to it (like the plugs in the computer room) so with the 4 extra breakers we should be set. At the same time I will have him do the shop generator plug. Not to keen on doing it myself although I wired my barn including a separate panel properly.

 

[BobRip]

Bob if you hook up your genset to a transfer in the 220v mode and I feel sure it will provide 110V to ground with each hot conductor. I could be wrong but my machine is set up this way as well. In the 220 Mode it will supply 110V and 220V. Is this how yours works? Oh I have a Aurora 6500Watt Diesel.

Mine works fine, I was just trying to help Mousefield.

 

[BobRip]

Thanks to all. A separate generator in the range of 3,000 - 3,500 runningt watts and having a 220 volt outlet seems to be what is needed for the storage tank submersible pump. Read with interest the link by TheGoose. :thumbsup: Sounds like I don't need a separete generator panel but will get the electirian to put in a generator plug. The pump panel is on an outside wall in the shop so will not be a big problem to drill a hole to the outside area for the generator. I plan on having the electrian who wired in our house generator panel to come out and add 4 more circuit breakers to it. It had 8 when I got it but does have space for 4 more. Found a few things we would like to add to it (like the plugs in the computer room) so with the 4 extra breakers we should be set. At the same time I will have him do the shop generator plug. Not to keen on doing it myself although I wired my barn including a separate panel properly.

Mousefield, well pumps can be tough to start. Basically the water acts like a flywheel which has to be accelerated. My pump takes 30 seconds to get upto speed and down to normal running curent. I had a 4kw generator that would not run my pump. I upgraded to an 8kw and that had problems till I went to larger wire in my well. Now my pump is 1.25 HP and is down 300+ feet so that is part of the issue. I suggest you get a guarantee from whoever you buy the generator from that it will run your well pump. 3kw may be fine, I just don't know without testing the actual system.

 

[TheGoose]

What kind of pump do you have? Unless you have a 3" submersible, it should only take a few seconds for your pump to get up to normal operating speed, if not sooner.

The 3" pumps are different because they spin at a much higher RPM and have to wind up. I'm guessing that is what you have since I'm not aware of any 4" pumps with 1.25 HP ratings.

For the 1/2HP you can get by with a relatively small generator.

Mousefield, well pumps can be tough to start. Basically the water acts like a flywheel which has to be accelerated. My pump takes 30 seconds to get upto speed and down to normal running curent. I had a 4kw generator that would not run my pump. I upgraded to an 8kw and that had problems till I went to larger wire in my well. Now my pump is 1.25 HP and is down 300+ feet so that is part of the issue. I suggest you get a guarantee from whoever you buy the generator from that it will run your well pump. 3kw may be fine, I just don't know without testing the actual system.

 

[Mousefield]

The pump is 1/2 horse power. It is in an above ground 2,000 gallon storage tank. It fills up the pressure tank which is about 80 gallon size. The idea is when we have a power outage we run the pump/generator, 2-3 times a day for 30 minutes or so, let the three dwellings flush toilets, wash dishes and fill up pots etc. If it was just us I wouldn't bother but we do have one couple in one of our mobiles and a single mom with two kids in the other. It is more for their benefit than ours. We survived OK when we had no power for five days several years ago but would have been very nice to have had running water.

 

[dmccarty]

For the power needs of the pump can't one just look at the circuit breaker amps size and work out the wattage? Or if one can actually see the pump see the amps/wattage on the plate?

I always struggled with how much power our well pump needed. Then it occurred to me to check the panel. It is on a 20 amp circuit and the generator is 30amps so I have enough power to get water. As long as the pump is the only thing needing power.

Later,
Dan

 

[TheGoose]

Mouse,

A 4KW generator should have ran and started your well pump, but the quality of the generator will make a big different when starting motors.

It should never take 30 seconds for a regular well pump to start and get up to speed. If you are talking about the amps leveling out then that might be possible but it should not be a huge difference. As your pressure goes up your amps should drop slightly. If you're amps are going up while pressure rises then you have a problem with your pump/motor.

 

[Mousefield]

Looked up the 1/2 hp 230 volt aermotor submersible pump on the internet and looks like it runs at 6 amps. Like most motors I'm sure it draws more at the start. Like most people don't have a ton of money to spend so trying to keep it reasonable as it may not even be used some years (I hope ). Will look at what is out there, the little bigger ones are electric start which is a nice feature.