Pond Questions?

[budlite]

I have a couple of man-made ponds on my property, primarily dependent on run-off for water supply. The largest of these (about 3 acres) tends to recede to about 35% of its surface area in the summer when the rain is scarce and evaporation high. I ran electrical power to the existing well a few years ago, but the well is currentl only 60 ft deep and incapable of producing enough water in the summer months to keep the pond filled. I am thinking about having the well drilled deeper to try and find enough water to supply 25 gals a minute for 10-12 hours a day during the dry season. But before I do that I was thinking of using my tractor and box blade to deepen the pond where the bottom is exposed, maybe contouring to provide different water depths and perhaps use the harvested soil to build an earthen dock.

This is a two part question: is it reasonable to expect to a well be capable of producing 25 gals a minute for 10-12 hours a day?

Is deepening the pond a good idea? The soil in Alabama is typically clay based so I am hoping disturbing the bottom won't make it leak?

If anyone has good knowledge of either one of these I would appreciate your input.

 

[beeforty]

I'm no well expert but depending on your soil 25gpm doesn't sound unreasonable. Making your pond deeper but not creating more surface area might make it cooler and may give you less evaporation? Definitely keep your clay bottom, or is there not enough clay to seal it off. Stuff called Bentonite is used to seal wells and ponds. Why would you want to pump in water? Cosmetics, fishing hole?

 

[brin]

My only thought would be about the well...No matter how deep you drill the well to get the 25 GPM...you are still tapped into the ground supply of water...aquifer and who knows how much water is there ? It may work fine for a month and then no water...and drilling a well is not cheap...just sayin'

 

[Short Game]

The water in the aquifer is there because it doesn't evaporate when it is in there. Pumping it to the surface where it can evaporate will deplete it by the number of gallons that do evaporate. If the evaporation is a waste of the aquifer, and if it is shared with others, you'd be wasting their water too. Would you want others to run the aquifer down for you? Something to think about.

 

[Sutol]

I'm interested in this as we are going to dig a pond for run off water and are having problems.
Our property is on top of a hill and yet we still get water lying in places, I have dug down about 10 feet and the soil is mostly clay and the hole has filled with water even though the land falls away on all sides of the area??

We have an old well outside the house which is over a hundred years old and is approx 30 feet deep, the well always fills to about six feet off the bottom and holds there no matter how much water is drawn off.

The house is built on a sandstone rocky area and the well has been cut through this.

How the **** can water be there when the land drops away 60 to 100 feet within a mile in all directions??

 

[VA MTN MAN]

I'm interested in this as we are going to dig a pond for run off water and are having problems.
Our property is on top of a hill and yet we still get water lying in places, I have dug down about 10 feet and the soil is mostly clay and the hole has filled with water even though the land falls away on all sides of the area??

We have an old well outside the house which is over a hundred years old and is approx 30 feet deep, the well always fills to about six feet off the bottom and holds there no matter how much water is drawn off.

The house is built on a sandstone rocky area and the well has been cut through this.

How the **** can water be there when the land drops away 60 to 100 feet within a mile in all directions??

Water level follows the contour of the land. My mothers house sits on the top of a hill overlooking a pond about 250 feet away. The well is at the apex of the hill about 200 feet from the pond and about 75 feet above the pond level,the well is only 60 feet deep and has never gone dry. I often wondered if i side drilled in would it keep running or dry up.

 

[PatasColo]

How the **** can water be there when the land drops away 60 to 100 feet within a mile in all directions??

Think of the earth (soil) as a sponge. Imagine a good sponge, 4 inches high. Put the good sponge in a pan of water - 1 inch of water only. What happens? The water "defies gravity" and soaks through the sponge, even the top 3 inches that are out of the water.

I find this fascinating. The key to this is that there are forces in addition to gravity that are at work here. I once saw a fascinating program on TV that talked about how important a force gravity is for us (humans), but for little critters (bugs), it is a fairly insignificant force. The fascinating part was, for bugs, forces like surface tension and static electricity are way more important!!! A bug can get trapped inside a bead of water! Can get stuck to a wall because of static electrical charge!

The next question is "Then why does a hole (i.e. the well) fill with water if the soil is such a good sponge?" Left as an exercise for the reader. :thumbsup:

 

[Short Game]

I live on a sandstone base too. I had this little 8X15 foot dip that filled with water when it rained, so I ran a gravity feed from the creek to keep it up in the summer and built a beautiful stonework garden around it. What a lovely place it was, but I always wanted the pond to be a little bit bigger and deeper. So, one year, I drained it down and dug it out just a little with a shovel. I quickly got down into the sandstone and it would not hold a drop of water ever after.

My neighbor up the hill had a CAT dig his low spot out for a spring fed half acre pond. I think that excavation joined to strata that were previously unconnected. That year, my land started sliding down the hill and breaking up, sinking and cracking. It made about three acres in the middle of my place no longer buildable. It all moves a little every winter, when it never had before. The ground water flow down the slope had changed a few hundred feet to the east. Stuff happens.

 

[Sutol]

Food for thought there....

So I'll dig my pond which will be only about 15 feet by 20 feet and six or so feet deep, this will be at the lowest point and where the water used to collect anyway so we'll see how it goes.
I'm tempted to hammer a piece of tube into the bottom of the hole that I have dug and see if I can get through the clay then perhaps the water will drain away.
Its strange that at the highest point on the field it is soaked in water and the tractor will sink when we have had a lot of rain.
I had the tractor down to its axle once trying to tow a jap pick up truck off the land. That Isuzu was rubbish off road but its 2.8 turbo diesel engine would return 47mpg (5 litres not American galls)) on a run at 55mph towing a twin axle trailer.
It would return 35 around town if driven carefully but it didn't like going off the tarmac

 

[Short Game]

I forgot to mention that the breaking up of my land made it impossible for even my 4X4 tractors to get up my road onto my land. My neighbors now give me access from above through their property. This is a plus, as it keeps the thieves and hunters off my land now. I don't miss the road. I do miss the few acres of year-round dry land. We share our properties for whatever the different parts are good for. My land is now the woodlot (the trees in the background), and both pieces contain our 24 hole championship quality disc golf course. I now live on the neighbors' land on good high ground. Everything has worked out well, and I built a nice dock on the pond and like to sit there in the summer evenings.

 

[Ken45101]

It is going to cost one heck of a lot of money to pump 25 gpm 24/7 out of a deep well. Have you calculated how much pump and electricity you will need for 25 gpm?

As for digging out the pond, how steep at the sides now? If it's relatively flat, then digging out will reduce the shrinking during the dry season (a 1' in 10 gives a lot more dry land when the water drops than a 45 degree slope). OTOH if it is already fairly steep, then it will eventually flatten back out.

Ken

 

[rd_macgregor]

Your guess is at least as good as mine as to whether your well might supply the flow rate you want, though the comment about pumping cost is apt.
I'd be hesitant to use my tractor to try to dig an existing pond deeper, though. I'd be more inclined to hire (preferably) a large tracked excavator for a day. If you do try this with your tractor, be sure to have a Plan B for extricating yourself from the mud, just in case.
BOB

 

[Ken45101]

I'd be more inclined to hire (preferably) a large tracked excavator for a day. If you do try this with your tractor, be sure to have a Plan B for extricating yourself from the mud, just in case.
BOB

I know of one trackhoe that ended up in the pond, they had to tear the engine down after it was recovered. There are also some great youtube videos of excavators being extricated from the mud....

Ken

 

[Short Game]

Anyone got a dragline?

 

[Western]

Personaly I dont think it would be worth the $$ and the constant electric bill in the summer, maybe do some reaserch on wind mills as a possible option, may not keep it full but maybe match the evaporation.

I'd also go try the question here, allot of good guy's over here too in the forums

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php

 

[LazySusanFarms]

I am looking at a 12' diameter wind mill to pump my water. I am also applying for water rights to store in a man-made pond. Water is going to get very expensive very soon as utilities try to recapture funds for infrastructure updates. I am planning for an expense of $15,000 for the well and wind mill.

 

[budlite]

Thanks for all the replies.

I only plan to pump 10-12 hrs a day, using a timer, in the summer months when there is little/no rain and lots of evaporation. When I run the 10 gal a minute pump I have now 24/7 it costs about $90 a month, so I figured with a better well and higher pump rate I could get more water for less $$$. Of course the higher capacity pump runs about $800, plus longer hose and wire required. I might mention that the well is not capable of producing even 10 gal a minute now.

I looked into a windmill, I think they are cool, but wind power is not reliable enough around here and the yearly maintenance was a big minus. Solar power is not reliable here either. The initial cost of either was as much as running the power underground 1000 feet to the existing well.

As far as getting stuck, I am planning to excavate only the dried up portion of the pond, as its the most shallow obviously. If I did get stuck there are a couple of real strong backhoes nearby that can pull me out. Unfortunately I know that from experience.

I will go check out the pond forum that someone posted.

Thanks again.

 

[Combustix]

My pond is seasonal and I have looked at trying to keep water in it year round. The expense I believe would not be worth the effort. I use the dry time to do maintenance and scoop out the layer of good soil left by the ducks and geese and the rock I use on my driveway. It is generally full from October to late June mid July. Depending on rain