pole shop

[mechanic]

What do you guys think of the treated and laninated lumber used in posts. A company out here in Missouri use treated 2x6 put together to make a laminated post that goes in the ground to construct a 30x30 shop building. They use either the 6x6 treated or the laninated post. I think the laminate post will last longer. The post which ever you choose is garranteed for 50 years. They also build the stud frame which cost a bit more. Anyone use the laninated post before?

 

[Birdhunter1]

I have not used the laminated post in the ground, I know of many builders and do it your self people that have and I have not heard any complaints. I have used laminated non treated post above concrete and found them very easy to build with and to notch in for lofts and trusses. Laminated posts will be less likely to have a twist or bow in them than a solid 6x6 post, something to keep in mind.

 

[BHD]

I know people will say I am wrong, but I have and my dad has bought many a fence post that was said to have 30 or 50 year life, and it is amazing on how many of them have rotted off over the years, and some times not that many years,

I know some treatments and process are better than others, but they make a steel bracket that goes into a concrete "post" that the wood post can be bolted to, or make your own. there are a number of company's that make them.

 

[sw99]

I like that idea for sure. I'm actually leaning towards a Red Iron Type steel building over the pole barn. Around here, the pole barn ends up being more expensive and I worry about the posts rotting out. The cheapest quote I have received for the actual pole barn building was $16 a square foot. I'm looking at a 30x40 size. I can get a Red Iron building delivered for under 12K. Pour a couple piers and have a crew set it up for 4.50 a square foot. The steel building ends up being around 4-5K less installed. I am too pressed for time to do it myself. Not to mention I have no idea what I'm doing...

 

[KYErik]

Any wood (treated or not) in direct contact with the gourd will eventually rot away (unless you are in a very dry climate). I opted for concrete piers with anchored oak posts sitting on the piers with a plastic sheet sandwiched between as a moisture barrier. If you use piers, you will likely need more bracing to resist a sideways wind load.

Properly sized treated posts (solid or laminated) in the ground will be inherently more stabil (in the short run) but will not last forever- and repairing rotted off posts will be a pretty sizable chore 30-50 years from now.

 

[WM75Guy]

Morton Buildings uses the laminated post built on site. They are one of the top builders of stables so if they use laminated posts there must be something to it. I have had zero issues with mine but it has only been up 7 years.

 

[EddieWalker]

If you have watched the TV show called Oak Island, you'll see that they are digging up wooden beams in pristine condition that have been in ground for hundreds of years. Last week, they pulled up a post that you could see the circular saw marks created when the beam was originally created in the 1800's.

Wood does not rot in the ground. It takes a combination of things for it to rot, with air being a big part of that. When they do rot, it's at the surface of the ground where water is allowed to puddle and sit for an extended period of time. If you build your barn so that water runs away from the building, it should easily last a hundred years or more.

I feel the reason some companies laminate three 2x6's together is for speed in notching those posts. I've dug through too many piles of treated 2x6's to believe that they are straighter then 6x6's. I've also seen them bend, twist and shrink after they have dried out. The shrinking is what gives me the most problems when I build a deck for a client. Out of a hundred boards, several will shrink in length half to 3/4's of an inch in six months. Several will twist or bow regardless of being screwed into the joists every 2 feet. I tell my clients that it's because of the way it's currently treated, and there is no predicting what each board will do in time.

I'm building two big decks early next year for clients and both know what to expect. All my posts will be treated 6x6's. Nothing else remains as straight over time.

 

[ovrszd]

If you have watched the TV show called Oak Island, you'll see that they are digging up wooden beams in pristine condition that have been in ground for hundreds of years. Last week, they pulled up a post that you could see the circular saw marks created when the beam was originally created in the 1800's.

Wood does not rot in the ground. It takes a combination of things for it to rot, with air being a big part of that. When they do rot, it's at the surface of the ground where water is allowed to puddle and sit for an extended period of time. If you build your barn so that water runs away from the building, it should easily last a hundred years or more.

I feel the reason some companies laminate three 2x6's together is for speed in notching those posts. I've dug through too many piles of treated 2x6's to believe that they are straighter then 6x6's. I've also seen them bend, twist and shrink after they have dried out. The shrinking is what gives me the most problems when I build a deck for a client. Out of a hundred boards, several will shrink in length half to 3/4's of an inch in six months. Several will twist or bow regardless of being screwed into the joists every 2 feet. I tell my clients that it's because of the way it's currently treated, and there is no predicting what each board will do in time.

I'm building two big decks early next year for clients and both know what to expect. All my posts will be treated 6x6's. Nothing else remains as straight over time.

Well written. I totally agree with all of it.

My 20 year old pole built shop burned a few years ago. Burned the 6x6 treated posts off at the top of the concrete. When I cleaned the pad for my new shop I dug up all the post stumps. I knocked the dirt off them and cut them into block lengths to use in the shop. If I had power washed the stumps you wouldn't have been able to tell them from new, still green colored.

The individual shrinkage of each 2x6 would be enough to steer me away from laminated posts.

 

[ovrszd]

I like that idea for sure. I'm actually leaning towards a Red Iron Type steel building over the pole barn. Around here, the pole barn ends up being more expensive and I worry about the posts rotting out. The cheapest quote I have received for the actual pole barn building was $16 a square foot. I'm looking at a 30x40 size. I can get a Red Iron building delivered for under 12K. Pour a couple piers and have a crew set it up for 4.50 a square foot. The steel building ends up being around 4-5K less installed. I am too pressed for time to do it myself. Not to mention I have no idea what I'm doing...

My current shop is all steel. 42x50x10 with vaulted ceiling. Required 10 piers. 6" concrete floor. 3 10x12 rollup doors. 6 48"x48" windows. Insulated, wired and lighted. $20 per square foot.

If you can get one for $4.50 a square foot you should go for it.

 

[cat fever]

Personally I like the 6X6 or 6X8 treated posts. If anyone is concerned about rotting, then put them in concrete all the way up to the surface. I've built three pole barns; 2 have the posts tamped in dirt and one cemented posts. No problems with either of them. 2 of them are about 18 years old.

 

[fried1765]

Morton Buildings uses the laminated post built on site. They are one of the top builders of stables so if they use laminated posts there must be something to it. I have had zero issues with mine but it has only been up 7 years.

View attachment 492784

I have a 36' x 48' Morton that is now 32 years old, with solid treated posts planted directly in the ground.
Posts appear to still be in fine condition. If they only last another 18 years (50 total) I'll be 94 years old, and won't give a ****te.

 

[roadhunter]

I had to do a fence recently and went to rough sawn treated 6x6 timbers. The stuff you buy at the big box store is junk IMO. They use the cheapest treatment possible to increase profits.

QNAP is far superior to any water treatment as is penna. The telephone pole companies do not use the cheap water treatments for good reason.

50 year warranty is a joke. Go look at fence post pricing if you want to see which works the best. You will notice that creosote, QNAP, and Penna all brings about double the price of a water based treated post which is what you are likely buying at the lumber yard or big box store. Water based is cheap as are pole buildings. These manufacturers have done everything they can to be the cheapest from laminated posts to 29 gauge steel. Don't kid yourself into believing these are built to last the longest, they are built to be the cheapest.

 

[comancheflight]

Postsaver & Polesaver | Extends Fence Posts And Poles Life

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

I have wondered about the plastic sleeves. I wonder if water can actually get trapped inside. Then I wonder if you could fill the empty sleeve with tar then put in the post to fill in all the space... :confused3:

 

[EddieWalker]

Postsaver & Polesaver | Extends Fence Posts And Poles Life

The concept seems sound. Wood posts rot out at surface level, where water remains standing. This provides a rubber membrane to keep the post dry. From the website, it looks like they are applying a layer of a tar like material, then wrapping it in rubber, then heating it all up to melt it together. The process and materials seem very similar to how a flat roof is sealed.

Does the rubber wrapped around the post become loose when the post dries out or cracks? Does water get in between the liner, and if so, is it significant to matter?

Do power poles ever rot out? I've seen them replaced because of damage, and because they are in expansive soil that causes them to lean over. But just like treated posts, what percentage of them rot out in less then 50 years?

I've replace more landscape timbers used for fence posts then I can count. In every case, they are the wrong material for a fence, and they always have a low area around the post that holds water. I've also replaced several railroad ties used for fences that rot out right at the surface for the exact same reason. I've never seen an 8 inch round posts or a 6x6 post that was rotted out. I can't think of any 4x4's or 4x6's either, but have replaced them for twisting.

For a pole barn, or any building with a roof over it, this is either a waste of money, or a feel good expense. The slope around the building needs to carry water away from the building. If that is done properly, there will never be a problem with treated posts in the ground.

 

[ovrszd]

Eddie, good comments.

I'd also be concerned about the membrane staying tight against the post. I'm sure they prohibit ground moisture from soaking into the post. But would they prohibit rain water from running down the post and collecting inside the membrane?

As for power poles, they rot off here in Missouri. I'm always on the lookout for poles that have been replaced. the power company leaves them lay. I try to get the ones that are still solid at the bottom. Sometimes they are replaced for natural acts of God such as Wind or Ice damage. But generally they are replaced because of condition. Each pole is numbered. I believe they have a replacement cycle in place. When they start replacing poles on a specific run they'll generally replace the majority of them. I'm assuming they reached their lifespan age?

I agree concerning landscape timbers (untreated) being used as poles. If the project is going to provide shelter from moisture and weather I believe they would work fine. If not, then not so good. I recently had an opportunity to purchase 28 20'x6"x6" untreated timbers for $200. I plan to use them to build a machine shed. I'm considering ideas for treating the bottom end that'll be buried. But think they'll be fine as long as I do the proper landscaping around the building. Any suggests would be appreciated!!!!

 

[roadhunter]

Overize,

One option is to get a pesticide applicators license which around here can be done at the county extension office. Then you can purchase penta which is a great wood preservative. Old timers used 55 gallon drums and just soaked the dry posts in the drum overnight. My neighbor has some that he claims are over 50 years old and still look great. It's probably the most popular treatment for commercial applications like telephone poles in the US.

http://www.wooddoc.org/utils/Penta/Penta_Pole_Brochure.pdf

 

[aarolar]

Eddie, good comments.

I'd also be concerned about the membrane staying tight against the post. I'm sure they prohibit ground moisture from soaking into the post. But would they prohibit rain water from running down the post and collecting inside the membrane?

As for power poles, they rot off here in Missouri. I'm always on the lookout for poles that have been replaced. the power company leaves them lay. I try to get the ones that are still solid at the bottom. Sometimes they are replaced for natural acts of God such as Wind or Ice damage. But generally they are replaced because of condition. Each pole is numbered. I believe they have a replacement cycle in place. When they start replacing poles on a specific run they'll generally replace the majority of them. I'm assuming they reached their lifespan age?

I agree concerning landscape timbers (untreated) being used as poles. If the project is going to provide shelter from moisture and weather I believe they would work fine. If not, then not so good. I recently had an opportunity to purchase 28 20'x6"x6" untreated timbers for $200. I plan to use them to build a machine shed. I'm considering ideas for treating the bottom end that'll be buried. But think they'll be fine as long as I do the proper landscaping around the building. Any suggests would be appreciated!!!!

So you feel untreated posts will work for a shed how do you feel about using straight pine trees? I have about 15 pines that blew over in front of my house I have been tossing around the idea of using for poles for a wood shed and shed for my diesel tank.

 

[Barnbuilder]

If I could afford it I would use concrete posts for myself. But there about $150 a piece. You can use a square or laminated post on top of that. The new treatment doesn't last like the older CCA. And not all treated wood is rated for ground contact.

 

[EddieWalker]

If you where going to go with concrete posts, why not just drill a hole into the ground, fill it with concrete and put a post bracket on top of the concrete? It would be cheap and easy to do. But of course you lose your sheer strength of a post in the ground, so additional bracing would be needed to compensate. Nothing is going to be faster, cheaper, easier or stronger then just drilling a hole, putting in a treated 6x6 post, and filling the hole.