mikim
Veteran Member
Exactly right - but it sure sounds nutz don't it? - went to Lowes tonight to buy replacement soakers - they were sold out. The ones I put down about 6 years ago are shot.
mike
mike
pole barn
- Thread starter tgello
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mikim
Veteran Member
frost ?? frost ?? lemme see - I think I heard of such a thing back when ... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
mike
mike
PaulT
Gold Member
tgello,
I see you're from CT. That means the Texas stories are interesting trivia to you and me (I never knew that about watering the foundation, but it makes sense. I guess you don't want your foundation and yard looking like national geographic pictures of the African Savanna during the dry season/w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif). Us folks up here in the NE have the other problem - frost heaves - since the water in our soil rarely dries out. It just freezes in the winter.
Regarding a floating slab - thats more or less what a sidewalk is. They are usually poured in smaller sections with strips in between them so that each one can "float" independently. They WILL float every winter, guaranteed! They may settle exactly the same in the spring, or they may stay up high or sink down low. If the sections are too big, they will crack first, then float independantly. Sometimes they will crack even if they aren't too big, especially if the edge is bound against something else.
You ask a very good question about the slab. If it is floating, and you don't "tie" the outside walls to it, what do you do with the inside walls sitting on the slab where they meet the outside wall? I would also like to hear from other cold weather folks who have solved this problem.
One thing I have seen in garage floor drawings are footer "posts". Basically, instead of a footer/foundation at the perimeter, you dig a series of holes in a square pattern spaced every 8 feet apart. These holes go below the frost line, and you pour a footer in each one, leaving some rebar sticking out so the slab ties into these footers when you pour it. I have never built anything this way, so can anyone give some advice?
I see you're from CT. That means the Texas stories are interesting trivia to you and me (I never knew that about watering the foundation, but it makes sense. I guess you don't want your foundation and yard looking like national geographic pictures of the African Savanna during the dry season/w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif). Us folks up here in the NE have the other problem - frost heaves - since the water in our soil rarely dries out. It just freezes in the winter.
Regarding a floating slab - thats more or less what a sidewalk is. They are usually poured in smaller sections with strips in between them so that each one can "float" independently. They WILL float every winter, guaranteed! They may settle exactly the same in the spring, or they may stay up high or sink down low. If the sections are too big, they will crack first, then float independantly. Sometimes they will crack even if they aren't too big, especially if the edge is bound against something else.
You ask a very good question about the slab. If it is floating, and you don't "tie" the outside walls to it, what do you do with the inside walls sitting on the slab where they meet the outside wall? I would also like to hear from other cold weather folks who have solved this problem.
One thing I have seen in garage floor drawings are footer "posts". Basically, instead of a footer/foundation at the perimeter, you dig a series of holes in a square pattern spaced every 8 feet apart. These holes go below the frost line, and you pour a footer in each one, leaving some rebar sticking out so the slab ties into these footers when you pour it. I have never built anything this way, so can anyone give some advice?
Anonymous Poster
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We have built many pole barns and see no appreciable heave on the interior floors. If this building is insulated and heated, there will be no frost to heave it. If it is built above existing grade, there will be no moisture to expand if frozen. Just use some very clean sand for fill.We pour all exterior approaches 1" below inside floor level to allow for heave, most of them heave up to the floor level when freeze/thaw occurs frequently in early spring. This tells me the inside floor is pretty constant.
That said, we always leave 1/2" or so under any exterior wall framing, just in case. It is also a good idea to wrap the poles with an asphalt shingle where they will contact the concrete: cement and treated lumber don't get along well.
That said, we always leave 1/2" or so under any exterior wall framing, just in case. It is also a good idea to wrap the poles with an asphalt shingle where they will contact the concrete: cement and treated lumber don't get along well.
PaulT
Gold Member
do you just pour a slab over the sand backfill? How thick is the slab you pour? Is it reinforced with fiberglass?
<font color=blue>If it is built above existing grade, there will be no moisture to expand if frozen.</font color=blue>
What if you need to pour at grade over gravel base on top of existing undisturbed compacted soil? What part of the country are you from?
Sorry for all the questions, just need to know/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.
<font color=blue>If it is built above existing grade, there will be no moisture to expand if frozen.</font color=blue>
What if you need to pour at grade over gravel base on top of existing undisturbed compacted soil? What part of the country are you from?
Sorry for all the questions, just need to know/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.
Anonymous Poster
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We pour directly on our fill. It could be gravel, most roads are built that way, but if it has a high clay or silt content, it may hold water. Water is the only thing that heaves. The best way to avoid water under your floor is to make sure you're 4'(+) above water table and build slightly above grade to allow for storm runoff.
Unless you have very heavy machinery, a 4" floor on a well-compacted base is sufficient. We use steel mesh reinforcement, but you will have to make sure it is pulled up off the base and into the concrete as you pour. Fiberglass mesh is used to avoid cracking during initial curing, we use it on exterior pours that will set faster. The most important things to me after pouring are:
1) Sawcut every 10' or so 1" deep as soon as it will cut without spalling the surface. Remember, your concrete is going to crack somewhere, it looks better in a nice straight sawcut.
2) Keep the surface wet to slow curing. Do this as soon as surface will allow.
I am from Michigan, have seen some frost.
Unless you have very heavy machinery, a 4" floor on a well-compacted base is sufficient. We use steel mesh reinforcement, but you will have to make sure it is pulled up off the base and into the concrete as you pour. Fiberglass mesh is used to avoid cracking during initial curing, we use it on exterior pours that will set faster. The most important things to me after pouring are:
1) Sawcut every 10' or so 1" deep as soon as it will cut without spalling the surface. Remember, your concrete is going to crack somewhere, it looks better in a nice straight sawcut.
2) Keep the surface wet to slow curing. Do this as soon as surface will allow.
I am from Michigan, have seen some frost.
Wal
Silver Member
barnfloor,
I am in the process of finding a builder/contractor to build a "pole barn" sometime this year. Approximate size will be 30 X 50 with probably 10ft eaves. Its ultimately going to house an RV in addition to one car and my B7500, "Kobi". Metal or wood, I don't know yet. Wifey says it has to look "nice" however. Just for comparisons sake, can you give me a range of costs to build such a building up in your area?
I am in the process of finding a builder/contractor to build a "pole barn" sometime this year. Approximate size will be 30 X 50 with probably 10ft eaves. Its ultimately going to house an RV in addition to one car and my B7500, "Kobi". Metal or wood, I don't know yet. Wifey says it has to look "nice" however. Just for comparisons sake, can you give me a range of costs to build such a building up in your area?
i talked to the guy that did the concrete work on the house we just built and he gave me some suggestions. with the morton style building, he said to dig out about 10 inches to a foot and replace it with some good processed stone . compaction is the key. either with a portable or hoe mounted compactor. also he said to put 2" styrofoam against the skirt board and lay another piece flat on the surface ,from the skirt board towards the center of the floor, keeping it level with the stone. i'm going to pour the floor in sections and he said that would be good because i would have a cold joint where the slabs meet for expansion. he said to pour a 5" slab and either use fiber mesh or the wire. .....tgello
Anonymous Poster
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Wal,
I haven't bid a job in about a year, so material price may be off. Last barn I built was 32x40, vinyl siding, shingle roof, 12" overhangs all around, 16x8 overhead door. Price was around $12k with floor. I'd guess around $15k for 1500 sft around here,($ depends on how bad we want to work).
I haven't bid a job in about a year, so material price may be off. Last barn I built was 32x40, vinyl siding, shingle roof, 12" overhangs all around, 16x8 overhead door. Price was around $12k with floor. I'd guess around $15k for 1500 sft around here,($ depends on how bad we want to work).
rdln
Veteran Member
We need more concrete people on this site, please register and stick around/w3tcompact/icons/love.gif
I have heard 6in thick concrete w/rebar is good for a loaded 18 wheeler is that sound correct?
I have heard 6in thick concrete w/rebar is good for a loaded 18 wheeler is that sound correct?