Plumbing help please...

[GerardC]

I need to move my toilet that is connected INLINE (right above) with the main drain. When I replace the "WYE" fitting into the main drain, do I need to set it at a 45 to get proper draining? It's going to be moved UP stream about 2 feet and about 5 feet back from the MAIN.I can post a photo if needed.
Thank you in advance. G

 

[GerardC]

Re: Plumbing help please... *DELETED*

Post deleted by GerardC

 

[bgott]

The picture didn't take so I'll wing it.You want to figure out your total run to the main and angle the wye so the pipe from the toilet enters at a rate of 1/4" per foot rise towards the toilet. If you have the room you'll have a sweep ell, five and some- odd feet of drain pipe dropping at 1/4 inch per foot and then your wye. I've seen this kind of set up with a 45 dropping into the wye and with out, it depends on how much of a drop you have to span to hit the main line. A 45 degree drop in itself can let solids stick in the line, If you get over the 1/4 inch per foot they want to see a sweep 90. The 90's I end up using are the short sweep, it's more of a lip to kick the stuff in the right direction as it leaves the fitting. There is some flexibility there depending on circumstances. You need to figure a vent in there, if you don't have a book on that or don't already have a plan I can look it up for you. If it has to be inspected you should ask the inspector what he wants to see, I don't have inspections here. I have, however, been a plumber's helper, have the book and none of the plumbing *I* have done leaks, backs up, makes the toilet glug to flush or vents inside my trailers or houses. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[GerardC]

Let's try this one more time. G

 

[GerardC]

Success!!!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Onthelake]

bgott
You said something in your post that triggered a question. What causes a toilet to glug when you flush it. I had some plumbing done by a "professional" (new house) and it gurgles when you flush. I'm in Tx and it's in a slab so I can't see how they installed it.

 

[tc35dforme]

Usually a poorly thought out vent /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif. As the waste water moves down the pipe, it needs an opening to the world ( vent ) to prevent a suction or siphon. Think of the soda straw with your finger on top. If the waste from the toilet is too long, and not individually vented, the drainage will cause a siphon and could gurgle through the trap. Often the toilet is not individually vented, but the rely on a 'wet' vent from an adjacent fixture. This works fine if the piping from the toilet to the main ( vented ) line is quite short.

 

[bgott]

A trailer house, eh? Is your toilet going to be moved 5' to the left in the picture? 2' over, it looks like the sweep is going to just about run right into the wye. Just as long as you have "some" drop you'll be OK. If you measure the drops and check the plumbing against the codes in a mobile home from the factory I doubt it would pass anywhere. Mobile homes are built to federal specs and inspections, not state or local. If you had the local code required 1/4" per foot drop on the soil pipe from the front bath to the rear drop on a 80' or 100' house it would drag going down the road. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif As long as the effluvient doesn't puddle at the joint the velocity from it dropping down the sweep will be enough to keep it moving down the line. Your upstream vent will work, if you were moving the toilet up past the vent then downstream venting can be critical. If you are putting the toilet upstream from the vent the soil pipe has to be vented within 6' with at least a 2" vent. You would use a 3" or 4" wye or tee with a 2" branch. You would run this at a 45 degree or better angle so the vent is up out of the flooded zone of the soil pipe. tc35dforme is right about the venting causing the glug. By the way, I see you have particle board ( or "Nova Deck") flooring. If you are going to have the bathroom tore up this would be the time to replace all of that with plywood subflooring. Way too much of the last 6 years of my life have been devoted to replacing hamburger wood. It really sucks to have to do it while the unit is occupied. Particle board sucks!!! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

On edit...I just looked back, or comprehended /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif your original post ( UPstream) and then looked at your picture again. You might run out of room for a drop. Cut your hole in the floor and then drop your floor flange and closet sweep in and measure your drop. You might be close to flat or uphill. I have a couple of units that work close to flat but it can be iffy. You might end up having to run a separate line to the main drop. I've had to do that to cure problems before. It isn't that big a deal. You just have an extra line to wack off if you move the house. You could tie the required vent into the existing.

 

[GerardC]

Here is a top view of what I'm doing. Hope it's clear. Gerard

 

[rlk]

Bgott,
What do you recommend for polybutylene plumbing like that shown in the picture?

Bob

 

[bgott]

http://www.mobilehomeadvantage.com/image.cfm?item_number=20663

Down the page in this link is a Pro- Vent anti- syphon fitting. You use this to vent your DWV system under the cabinets rather than through the roof. I have houses built in '78 that use them and they still seem to work OK. No detectable sewer gas in the house. They only list a 1 1/2" fitting but I think it would work. Having your vent off of the new sink location would move your vent upstream from the toilet wye. Run 2" all the way to the sink, 1 1/4" trap from the sink to the 2" riser, and put a wye in your 2" riser, "Y" facing up. Run a short nipple on the vent leg of the wye and then a 45, then a nipple to as close to the bottom of the counter top as you can get and still install the Pro Vent. I would install a cleanout on the riser, also. You can't have too many cleanouts. I have one house that I have had to cut and disconnect drain pipes in various places to remove Matchbox sized cars, 10 or 12 at the last count. I need a cleanout on every run in that trailer. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif The proper way to vent this in a site built, to code and inspected house would be to continue the 2" vent up the inside of the stud bay and out the roof but we are talking mobile home here. If I can get into one of my trailers to take a picture tomorrow I will, sometimes the tenants don't want you prodding around if they don't have a problem. They don't even want you to do it when there is a problem, either, once I had to unstop a sink and found this guy's blow up rubber doll under the dirty clothes packed under there. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Anyway, That ought to take care of your vent problem. Then you just run your floor flange and closet sweep, unglued at first, and make sure you will have enough drop at the point you want to move the toilet. You can tie into the 3" line with a wye or a sweep tee. I've used a short DWV tee to hook up toilets and got away with it, those are the ones with the little lip to direct the flow downstream. You don't want to screw up and use a vent tee, I've never done it but just looking at it you can tell that the effluvient would just run straight out the branch and pile up at the junction and loose all velocity before meandering downstream. You need to keep the velocity up so the solids don't stop and stick, too much drop and the water can outrun the solids. You didn't know plumbing was so technical, did you? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gifAnother thing, sometimes you don't have enough space to make all your glue joints, in that case I use one of those rubber boots with the two hose clamps. You cut everthing to fit, mark it, take it back apart and glue all the parts you can stuff back in place and then use the boot to make the last connection, usually in the middle of the longest run. If you loosen the clamps all the way, grease the boot up with dish soap and water and slide it all the way on one side you can put everything else together and then slide the boot over your last connection. Take the clamps all the way off, even loose they can screw you up.

 

[bgott]

The best thing to do is junk it. I've heard people say that the only problem with it is the banding they used to put it together but that is BS. I have had lots of leaks in the middle of a run, nothing near it to punch a hole in it, it just starts spraying. Practically, though, unless your dogs have totally tore the underlayerment out from under the house, you need to patch it if it starts spraying. I use PEX to splice bad sections. A lot of plumbers just love PEX just like they loved PB when it came out. We'll see how it turns out 15 years from now. I use Flair- It fittings to splice the PEX into the PB. When you use the fittings it makes life easier if you soften the ends of the tubing with a lighter before you stick it on the barb on the fitting.

 

[GerardC]

Thanks for the reply bgott. I think that I'll be OK with what I'm doing. I already have Pro-Vent on ALL my fixtures. I'll be reusing what I have. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again. Gerard

 

[gordon]

On three inch pipe you only need an 1/8" per foot grade. That 1/8" saved adds up quick if your tight on room. On 1-1/2 and 2 inch you need 1/4" per foot grade.

The black air addmittance valves aren't legal in this area for jobs that are being inspected. On those jobs I use a studor valve, look the same but will not let water leak out if their is a blockage in the drain line. I've got one in my plumbing truck if you want a pic of it. You need to put a san tee inside the vanity about 18" off the floor to the center of drain and coming out of the top of the san tee have at least 4" long piece of pipe going to the air valve. This helps to keep junk from building up in the bottom of the valve.

By your drawing I would just put a 3x1-1/2 wye in your toilet arm for your lav. You can run 2 inch but 1-1/2 is all that is needed. The lav is only one dfu. It's a simple wet vent.

Good luck if you need more help just holler
Gordon

 

[bgott]

Yes, I would love to see a picture of that Studor valve. I was just checking my local MH supply house's catalog and they don't seem to list the Pro- Vent anymore.

 

[gordon]

Here is a pic of the valve.

Gordon

 

[gordon]

Here is a second pic with the 2" female adapter removed.

Gordon

 

[gordon]

Here is the last picture. Hope they help

Gordon

 

[bgott]

Thanks!

 

[GerardC]

Plumbing is DONE! Everything is working just fine. Thanks for all the input. I'll be posting photos when the project is complete. Thanks again. Gerard