Pallets in fields

[smstonypoint]

I believe you overlooked the necessity of measuring the hammer head speed and angle incidence at the time of impact. This is crucial information.

Thus, the importance of the video recording of the experiment.

Steve

 

[txdon]

Did the Florida pallet fall to the north?

Yes it did, are you on to something?

 

[dave1949]

Thus, the importance of the video recording of the experiment.

Steve

I have no desire to be tedious, however you also overlooked the necessity of documenting the mass of the hammer--which cannot be seen in a video recording. It is bad enough that this experiment will be conducted free-hand, as opposed to a proper drop-release which is reliably repeatable.

There is also the matter of on-site magnetic anomalies to be accounted for.

The number of 'roos leaping within a 1 km radius of the experiment site must also be documented.

 

[ljohnson778]

Thus, the importance of the video recording of the experiment. Steve

Seriously, you folks are stretching the limits of credibility... Can we be serious for one second? Clearly, we are dealing with aliens, shall we continue to ignore this fact? I, for one, will not be party to willful negligence when it comes to the little green b@st@rds!

 

[dave1949]

Yes it did, are you on to something?

Perhaps. The pallet originated in Florida, one of the few facts you have been able to document due to your severe nyctophobia. The pallet falling to the north indicates that some unexplained power is causing it to continue its journey.

 

[txdon]

Perhaps. The pallet originated in Florida, one of the few facts you have been able to document due to your severe nyctophobia. The pallet falling to the north indicates that some unexplained power is causing it to continue its journey.

So it wasn't the 40mph South wind. I knew it!

 

[dave1949]

So it wasn't the 40mph South wind. I knew it!

There are two questions:
1) who or what was responsible for the wind?
2) where is the pallet going?

'It's an ill wind that blows nobody any good'.

 

[smstonypoint]

I have no desire to be tedious, however you also overlooked the necessity of documenting the mass of the hammer--which cannot be seen in a video recording. It is bad enough that this experiment will be conducted free-hand, as opposed to a proper drop-release which is reliably repeatable.

There is also the matter of on-site magnetic anomalies to be accounted for.

The number of 'roos leaping within a 1 km radius of the experiment site must also be documented.

You raise valid points regarding the possibility that magnetic anomalies and Macropus activity may be "lurking" variables.

However, I take strong exception to your claim that conducting the experiment "free-hand" detracts from the validity of the results. Pallet production remains labor-intensive and the industry has yet to adopt robotic nailers. Free-handing reflects the variations in hammer head speed and angle incidence at the time of impact that occur in the real world.

I claim that a blind free-hand test, duly recorded via video, is required to produce results that will be accepted by the scientific community.

Steve

 

[dave1949]

You raise valid points regarding the possibility that magnetic anomalies and Macropus activity may be "lurking" variables.

However, I take strong exception to your claim that conducting the experiment "free-hand" detracts from the validity of the results. Pallet production remains labor-intensive and the industry has yet to adopt robotic nailers. Free-handing reflects the variations in hammer head speed and angle incidence at the time of impact that occur in the real world.

I claim that a blind free-hand test, duly recorded via video, is required to produce results that will be accepted by the scientific community.

Steve

"Lurking variables?" Sir, this entire undertaking is fraught with uncertainty simply because geophysicists do not know which way is "up."

I know of this failing because the "north" end of a compass needle points to the North Magnetic Pole. We all know that in magnetic experiments opposites attract, yet we have north pointing north in direct contradiction of so-called scientific facts.

Now, adding to the inherent confusion is the idea that this experiment will be conducted "Down Under." Under what? You see?

Introducing "free-hand" variables to an already sloppy protocol, well garbage in, garbage out, is all I have to say.

 

[Jim Shooz]

Another point to be considered with the nails in the pallets theory is the weight of the nails and where they were placed. Where they at the apex of the structure or along the edge nearest the ground. What about the ratio of nails to other fasteners, staples etc. Where any of the pallets screwed before you got them or did they just look that way naturally.

 

[smstonypoint]

"Lurking variables?" Sir, this entire undertaking is fraught with uncertainty simply because geophysicists do not know which way is "up."

I know of this failing because the "north" end of a compass needle points to the North Magnetic Pole. We all know that in magnetic experiments opposites attract, yet we have north pointing north in direct contradiction of so-called scientific facts.

Now, adding to the inherent confusion is the idea that this experiment will be conducted "Down Under." Under what? You see?

Introducing "free-hand" variables to an already sloppy protocol, well garbage in, garbage out, is all I have to say.

Firstly, additional experiments should be conducted world-wide if Wagtail's results appear promising. Thus, the effects of the earth's magnetic field, latitude, longitude, and altitude could be investigated. However, we should not commit resources to that endeavor until our Antipodean colleague conducts his experiment.

Secondly, ignoring the natural variations in hammer-head speed and angle at incidence that occur in the real world is folly. Holding those items constant will not inform us of the properties of the "real-world" probability distributions of nails (bent versus unbent) and the angles assumed by the bent nails.

Thirdly (and most importantly), the video of the blind "free-hand" test would be of scientific interest in its own right.

Steve

 

[TomSeller]

The Texas pallets have fallen - like the Alamo. Is this a normal progression or a failed experiment? We did have 40mph winds but I can't assume anything.

As scientists we have to be vigilant. Sleep is not allowed given the enormously important task at hand. Shame on you. On the other hand, good job at doing more than I have on the practical experimental front !!

 

[TomSeller]

Another point to be considered with the nails in the pallets theory is the weight of the nails and where they were placed. Where they at the apex of the structure or along the edge nearest the ground. What about the ratio of nails to other fasteners, staples etc. Where any of the pallets screwed before you got them or did they just look that way naturally.

And size. Does size matter?

 

[smstonypoint]

And size. Does size matter?

Yes.

Sincerely,
Emily

 

[stuckmotor]

Secondly, ignoring the natural variations in hammer-head speed and angle at incidence that occur in the real world is folly.
Steve

Steve is absolutely correct. These pallet formations are undoubtedly spawning beds for the elusive New Jersey Hammer-Head Land Shark.

 

[TomSeller]

Yes.

Sincerely,
Emily
<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=358107"/>

Steve, that is the quickest and most concise answer I have ever seen from you. Is there a PG rated a story behind it? Or should I address this to Emily?

 

[Wagtail]

An image of the L shaped nail would be helpful.

Not only being a Man of Science, but being a Man of the Land (... despite 37yrs. of Naval service, which was spent primarily on the Sea... but I digress) I frugally kept the excess nails from building my hay-ring from recycled pallets. These specimens have been stored for the past year in a "Science Grade" glass 'coffee jar' in my work-shed/laboratory.

As requested:



Reviewing these specimens, note that there are many different shapes other than the classic 'L'. Also note the amount of oxidisation that has occurred, despite being contained in a "Science Grade" glass 'coffee jar'.

I will now conduct the 'Blind' hammer v. nail experiment, using standard Australian work-shed/laboratory hand-held pounding implements! Wish me luck!

Yes Steve, I'll video the experiment!

[2 Scientific hours later...]

Here are the results of the "'Blind' hammer v. nail experiment, using standard Australian work-shed/laboratory hand-held pounding implements". As can be observed, most of the nails (matched in composition to the original nails above), at first, entered fairly straight. Then the experiment went somewhat awry and the misshaped nails began to be produced.

I've included the array of standard Australian work-shed/laboratory hand-held pounding implements that were to be utilised... I say "were" because I only got up to using the smaller BFH before both of my hands were rendered useless.

Which is also the reason that there is no video as, I'm afraid, that my vocal expletives were of such intensity as to cause the whole recording to be censored. My apologies to all in that regard.

 

[TomSeller]

Looks like a bad pounder inner was manning the hammer tool to me. Check wood hardness and report back please.

 

[Wagtail]

Looks like a bad pounder inner was manning the hammer tool to me. Check wood hardness and report back please.

By all means, Tom, you try pounding in nails whilst blind and we'll compare results. {he painfully types... Ow!}

Late edit: I used a 1x4" softwood board into a 4x4 softwood block... hardwood would have been the next step but my injuries prevented progressing to that stage.

The codeine in the paracetamol says that I'm not allowed to operate heavy machinery until the effect wear off... I therefore, reluctantly, throw the 'Scientific Torch' on to someone else.

 

[arrow]

I've arrived late here and have read all the posts. My question is should industrial or ag tires be used when collecting pallets from fields?