Outside air intake

   / Outside air intake #51  
Not doubting anyone but i find it really hard to believe a exhaust fan on my kitchen stove will pull more air than a hot fire from my woodstove with a 8" exhaust pipe.
Just using public school logic...:)

Some kitchen exhaust fans are pretty serious. I have no doubt a high end residential kitchen fan would suck more air than a wood stove. That’s assuming the kitchen fan vents outside which most don’t. A bathroom fan is much smaller in comparison.
 
   / Outside air intake
  • Thread Starter
#52  
Not doubting anyone but i find it really hard to believe a exhaust fan on my kitchen stove will pull more air than a hot fire from my woodstove with a 8" exhaust pipe.
Just using public school logic...:)

It's surprising how much air even a small exhaust fan can yank out out of a space. I had a guy tell me that "caulking" will do way more good than putting exhaust fans on timers for a 27,000 sq ft building. In a 24 hr period counting all 8 doors and 127 windows the tally was 5,025 cfms leakage for all gaps (applying 1/2" gap and multiplying lineage) and 207,000 cfms that a single exhaust was sucking out and this was a small but serious kitchen fan.
 
   / Outside air intake #53  
Not doubting anyone but i find it really hard to believe a exhaust fan on my kitchen stove will pull more air than a hot fire from my woodstove with a 8" exhaust pipe.
Just using public school logic...:)

Logic being what it is

Your stove has an 8 inch flue pipe. What size is the air inlet? Can more air leave the stove than goes into it? (And the gassification of the fuel wood does not count as AIR! ;-) .

Really, the kitchen fan is 8 inches in diameter with a fan blade. I can hear and feel the air flow with my hand near to outlet. My stove has a 2 inch air inlet with a shutter over most of it most of the time. When the fire is burning bright, I can not sense much air flow in the immediate area at all. Just my observations.
 
   / Outside air intake #54  
Logic being what it is

Your stove has an 8 inch flue pipe. What size is the air inlet? Can more air leave the stove than goes into it? (And the gassification of the fuel wood does not count as AIR! ;-) .

Really, the kitchen fan is 8 inches in diameter with a fan blade. I can hear and feel the air flow with my hand near to outlet. My stove has a 2 inch air inlet with a shutter over most of it most of the time. When the fire is burning bright, I can not sense much air flow in the immediate area at all. Just my observations.

Wood stove chimneys are big but low velocity. My kitchen vent is like 6” pipe at a much faster velocity.
 
   / Outside air intake #55  
In cold weather, the stack effect causes significant negative pressure in my basement (where the wood stove is) even though my house is reasonably tight. It's a big two story house. The house also has a range hood, two clothes dryers, and 4 bathroom vent fans and a conventional gas hot water heater, various combinations of which can operate at any time. I really like having the outside air intake for the wood stove, making it's operation independent of the house interior conditions.

I don't think the outside air intake makes a big difference in efficiency but I think it makes my wood stove operation more consistent.

A normal kitchen range (40,000 BTU or so) is supposed to have over 500 cfm of vent capacity. If you consider a typical 2000 square foot house, the vent will completely change the air in the house about twice an hour. That is some serious flow.
 
   / Outside air intake #56  
One more knock against using outdoor air supplied directly into a woodstove, that I have not seen mentioned yet: Extremely cold air is quite bad for combustion efficiency. Room temp air is much better for getting the most BTUs out of your wood. This is scientific fact, however, the difference may not be significant to some folks or those in more temperate climates. Just think about sub-zero air being blown onto your coals/fire.... it cools it down. Hot fires are far more efficient for extracting BTUs.

We built a tight house in 2015, intentionally designed to be primarily heated with a central woodstove. I went back and forth on the outside air kit for my Napoleon woodstove. Partially due to a busted budget, and to avoid further house design complexity, I opted against it. The only problem we ever have is when the fire is not yet raging, and wife starts the clothes dryer or range fan without watching the woodstove. Iit can occasionally fart out a pretty good cloud of smoke before she notices, which is obviously pretty gross. One cracked door or window and the problem is gone, obviously. With a well burning fire and or at least a good pile of coals, the draft never turns around though. I'm still debating adding an outside air kit, but making it optional with some gate valves or louvers in case it isn't optimal.
 
   / Outside air intake #57  
A normal kitchen range (40,000 BTU or so) is supposed to have over 500 cfm of vent capacity. If you consider a typical 2000 square foot house, the vent will completely change the air in the house about twice an hour. That is some serious flow.

Yes. I constantly have to talk to my wife about turning on exhaust fans and am thinking about putting the kitchen fan on a timer. I often come home and the kitch exhaust is running and nothing is going on in the kitchen. It is one thing in the moderate months but another thing in the winter. In one ear and out the other.
 
   / Outside air intake
  • Thread Starter
#58  
One more knock against using outdoor air supplied directly into a woodstove, that I have not seen mentioned yet: Extremely cold air is quite bad for combustion efficiency. Room temp air is much better for getting the most BTUs out of your wood. This is scientific fact, however, the difference may not be significant to some folks or those in more temperate climates. Just think about sub-zero air being blown onto your coals/fire.... it cools it down. Hot fires are far more efficient for extracting BTUs.

We built a tight house in 2015, intentionally designed to be primarily heated with a central woodstove. I went back and forth on the outside air kit for my Napoleon woodstove. Partially due to a busted budget, and to avoid further house design complexity, I opted against it. The only problem we ever have is when the fire is not yet raging, and wife starts the clothes dryer or range fan without watching the woodstove. Iit can occasionally fart out a pretty good cloud of smoke before she notices, which is obviously pretty gross. One cracked door or window and the problem is gone, obviously. With a well burning fire and or at least a good pile of coals, the draft never turns around though. I'm still debating adding an outside air kit, but making it optional with some gate valves or louvers in case it isn't optimal.

This is a valid concern. I think you are correct in being able to control its usage with some type of valving for those fridgid days.
 
   / Outside air intake #59  
One more knock against using outdoor air supplied directly into a woodstove, that I have not seen mentioned yet: Extremely cold air is quite bad for combustion efficiency. Room temp air is much better for getting the most BTUs out of your wood. This is scientific fact, however, the difference may not be significant to some folks or those in more temperate climates. Just think about sub-zero air being blown onto your coals/fire.... it cools it down. Hot fires are far more efficient for extracting BTUs.

I understand your logic but I don't think this is really an issue. The specific heat and density of air is so low that it takes very little heat to bring it up in temperature. Seems to me that more air is going to result in a hotter fire, regardless of the air temperature.
 
   / Outside air intake #60  
I added an 4" O.A. pipe to my utilities room which houses my furnace and water heater. Keeping those two fed with fresh air 24/7 reduces my negative draft days. That room is close to my wood stove in the basement, so air flows under the utility room door when the wood stove is burning, feeding the stove with air. It definitely evens out the peaks and valleys of home pressure, making it easier to keep a steady heat coming from the stove. It's eliminated those tough days when I just fought with getting the stove lit due to mediocre draft. The worst days were weekend mornings due to showers (bath fans and water heater exhaust fan), big breakfasts (stove exhaust), laundry (dryer exhaust), furnace (exhaust). Trying to get a hot fire going with all that negative pressure was exhausting. ;)

I thought my method, above, was a compromise and have always wished I planned better for a direct OAI right at the stove. After reading all these replies and theories, I feel like my indirect OAI is the best method after all. This is especially true for my needs since it feeds the propane furnace and forced vent propane water heater which run more than my stove.
 

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