Oil & Fuel Outboard Motor fuel in Tractor

dcabernel · Sep 7, 2013

Ok, I'm now one of those guys. I had some outboard motor gas in my YELLOW jerry can (idiot) for disposal. Of course, I forgot and put in my L3240. 20 litres of fuel in two bars of diesel on the fuel gauge.

I was running for about 1/2 an hour when I started to notice a lack of power. I few minutes later the tractor stalled and I quit working for a beer to think about what possible was wrong. It was then I realized my mistake.

I siphoned out the fuel until there were no bars on the gauge and the FUEL warning came one. I put 20 litres of diesel in and cleaned the fuel filter. It seemed to me running fine so I started working with it. I still am experiencing lack of power. The engine idles fine up to 2000 RPM. More than that and the engine starts to slow down/speed up, sometimes stalling. If I keep it at 2000 it runs and I used it for about 2 1/2 hours to see if it just needed to clean the 'kunk' out. No improvement. Don't have much power when digging.

Not panicking yet, but it looks like a may have a fuel system problem. Does this sound like the fuel pump? I read posts were pure gas doesn't cause problems, and would think the oil in the 2cycle gas would only help the situation by lubricating it. Am I wrong?

Where should I go from here? Bleed the injectors, clean, cry?

Dave

KennyV · Sep 7, 2013

After a good cry... take the injector Pump and Injectors into a shop to have them tested...
It is Very likely that the injector pumps are damaged...
As to pure gasoline Not cause problems... It will damage IP but the damage will vary from slight to destroyed, just depends on many factors, It will Never have zero effect. KennyV

BeezFun · Sep 7, 2013

You're probably lucky it had 2 cycle oil in it, at least there was some lubrication. Two groups of stuff could be damaged by gasoline, one is the emissions and controls parts of the engine, which could be contaminated. The other is damage to the engine components themselves because gasoline is designed to not auto-ignite, so when it finally does it occurs at really high pressures and send shock waves through the mechanical components of the engine. There can also be damage from lack of lubrication in gasoline, but your 2 cycle oil might have helped that. So it's hard to say what the next step is. I think I'd check the compression on each cylinder since that's pretty easy and would eliminate whether the lack of power is due to damage to the cylinders or rings. After that I'd look at what controls/emissions components play a role in the fuel injection system. On a car the computer monitors all kinds of sensor input to control the fuel injection system. I'm not sure if diesels work like that or not, but there must be some feedback mechanism for injection system. Perhaps there was some damage to fuel injection pump from the gasoline, if you have a fuel pressure guage you could check that.
You have my sympathy, I punish myself forever when I do stuff like this.

Scooby074 · Sep 7, 2013

It could be air. Bleeding wont hurt anything.

But more likely is you did some damage. Bleed it first then go from there. Your wallet hopes for the best

Oh.. not like I have to say it, but there have been a few issues like this on TBN... NEVER put anything other than Diesel in a Yellow can. Even if you have to go out and buy a waste fuel/oil etc. can (and mark it as such) it's only $20.

One other thing, how come nobody can smell (or see) the fact its gas when they fuel up? I always watch when Im fueling (plus I use a large Racor filter). Its hard to mistake the smell of diesel for gas. Unless your sniffer is broken

brin · Sep 7, 2013

I would not panic ...you have put diesel in there now...run it and let it work out the residual gas/oil mix ...these tractors are not that touhcy and you had oil in that gas...just not enough..had you kept going you would have maybe had some problems...I'm betting you are OK once it clears...Good Luck.

SPYDERLK · Sep 7, 2013

clean the filter again.

Coyote machine · Sep 7, 2013

I'm of the mind that if you add some diesel fuel enhancers that might help the situation too. Gas is not intended to be used in a diesel, BUT you had diesel and your 2 stroke mixed together, right?
Even if just 2 stroke mix you may be ok if you're lucky and didn't run too much of it through the fuel system.
If it doesn't clear up and regain power in the next few hours of use then getting an injector pop tested might be in order, and after doing so and depending on the results further testing of things like the injection pump may be necessary - hopefully not.

crazyal · Sep 7, 2013

Run it for a few days to clean out anything not diesel out of the system.

kuboman · Sep 7, 2013

Considering you ran it over 2 hrs with no improvement I doubt it is air. Im with the post that says you have damage. Gas in a diesel always causes damage. Just the seriousness of the damage is the question. It can destroy an engine top to bottom if run long enough.
Sorry, but I would plan for the worst. Keep us all up to date on what you find.

Coyote machine · Sep 8, 2013

If it turns out that you did damage to the fuel system, IP or injectors or both there is a recent thread on the Kioti Owners forum that gives the name of a place that does pump repairs, rebuilds, etc.
Would likely be better $ than a new pump from K'bota.

SPYDERLK · Sep 8, 2013

dcabernel said:
Ok, I'm now one of those guys. I had some outboard motor gas in my YELLOW jerry can (idiot) for disposal. Of course, I forgot and put in my L3240. 20 litres of fuel in two bars of diesel on the fuel gauge.

I was running for about 1/2 an hour when I started to notice a lack of power. I few minutes later the tractor stalled and I quit working for a beer to think about what possible was wrong. It was then I realized my mistake.

I siphoned out the fuel until there were no bars on the gauge and the FUEL warning came one. I put 20 litres of diesel in and cleaned the fuel filter. It seemed to me running fine so I started working with it. I still am experiencing lack of power. The engine idles fine up to 2000 RPM. More than that and the engine starts to slow down/speed up, sometimes stalling. If I keep it at 2000 it runs and I used it for about 2 1/2 hours to see if it just needed to clean the 'kunk' out. No improvement. Don't have much power when digging.

Not panicking yet, but it looks like a may have a fuel system problem. Does this sound like the fuel pump? I read posts were pure gas doesn't cause problems, and would think the oil in the 2cycle gas would only help the situation by lubricating it. Am I wrong?

Where should I go from here? Bleed the injectors, clean, cry?

Dave

kuboman said:
Considering you ran it over 2 hrs with no improvement I doubt it is air. Im with the post that says you have damage. Gas in a diesel always causes damage. Just the seriousness of the damage is the question. It can destroy an engine top to bottom if run long enough.
Sorry, but I would plan for the worst. Keep us all up to date on what you find.

I think that it is likely the fuel filter. "Slow down/speed up/stall" is a starvation indication under load as the filter collapses at hi demand flow. A good filter cleaning is in order or preferably new if OP cannot be sure that the filter element is not water logged. ... are there perhaps two filters?
larry

kuboman · Sep 8, 2013

SPYDERLK said:
I think that it is likely the fuel filter. "Slow down/speed up/stall" is a starvation indication under load as the filter collapses at hi demand flow. A good filter cleaning is in order or preferably new if OP cannot be sure that the filter element is not water logged. ... are there perhaps two filters?
larry

You could be right. The filter may have filtered out some of the oil in the gas and plugged up. Worth a try to put in a new filter but I would not get too hopeful.

atgreene · Sep 8, 2013

Change your filter, don't just clean it. I assume you have a primary bowl type filter with a paper cartridge or screen and a spin-on filter? Change both, fill them with power service treatment, put fresh fuel in. You'll be fine. I've seen more diesels than you can count run on gas, never seen one blown-up yet, except the ones that people took to dealers. Dealers promptly sold them injectors, injector pumps and engine rebuilds, even though they didn't need it.

I've had it happen to 3 or 4 of my pieces of equipment, never had any ill affects. Don't let the nervous nelleys panic you.

SPYDERLK · Sep 8, 2013

atgreene said:
Change your filter, don't just clean it. I assume you have a primary bowl type filter with a paper cartridge or screen and a spin-on filter? Change both, fill them with power service treatment, put fresh fuel in. You'll be fine. I've seen more diesels than you can count run on gas, never seen one blown-up yet, except the ones that people took to dealers. Dealers promptly sold them injectors, injector pumps and engine rebuilds, even though they didn't need it.

I've had it happen to 3 or 4 of my pieces of equipment, never had any ill affects. Don't let the nervous nelleys panic you.

Ditto ... Thanks for posting.

dcabernel · Sep 9, 2013

Thanks for all the comments. I have good news.

Saturday night my neighbor was over and has many diesels as he has a landscaping business. I ran it for him and it was idling fine again. He recommended running diesel conditioner which I had already added when I fueled it up. He didn't think it was damaged. I checked the air vent cock and it might have been cracked open a bit. I might have opened it after cleaning the fuel filter to bleed the system and neglected to close it fully. I can't remember. I would feel stupid if that was the problem, but I live with that at this point.

Tonight I started it up and let it idle for about 15 minutes to warm up as I did some other work. I then used and it was working well. I had it throttled to 2500 rpm and it was running smooth and not losing power when I worked it. Only when I revved it up to 3K did it start to sputter again, but not too badly. I only used it for about 10 minutes but it was up to temperature and it was now idling fine at 2.5K; it was running terrible on Sat at that RPM. I'm not ready to declare it all OK but I'm feeling pretty good right now. I bought a can of Seafoam I'm going to add it to a filled tank.

Some mentioned about having a non yellow jerry can for waste fuel. I wasn't prepared to dispose the fuel, I don't even own a boat. A friend was over with his boat and just decided to get rid of the fuel as it was old and the boat wasn't running well. That's all I had at the time. Of course that was not excuse for leaving in my garage for 2 months and not disposing it.

I'm planning on getting 20 more yards of work this weekend and will let everyone know how it goes.

Thanks again.

crazyal · Sep 9, 2013

I think that the fact that the fuel was old actually worked in your favor as the gas most likely wasn't detonating under pressure and the oil mixed in the gas kept the pump and injectors lubricated. I suspect there's still a little bit of the olf fuel left somewhere in the system. A little more seat time will flush it out. It's always good when a mistake doesn't cost you much and teaches you something.

dcabernel · Sep 15, 2013

I added another 20L of diesel 1/2 a can of Seafoam and worked the tractor for 2 hours on Sat. Worked perfectly, not a sputter or loss of power at any time. :cool2:

I really suspect the air vent cock must have been open a bit. It just went from bad to perfectly ok too fast to be remnants of the bad fuel in the system. I didn't even re-clean the fuel filter or replace it. I suppose I could crack the vent open and try to duplicate the problem but I don't think I will.

In short, running Outboard Motor Fuel (50:1 I think) did not wreak a Kubota L3240 engine; but I would not recommended trying it.

Thanks everyone for their input.