organic farmers?

[brix]

Have a few acres (4) not doing much with. Wondered if anyone was doing any organic farming and how successful they were with it. Comments?
thanks, Brix

 

[D7E]

On a few acres like that it might work but as a regular farming practice you will soon go broke ,Organic grain farming rareley works (on large scale) we bought 800 acres organic and had been for 25 years , Yeilds were pathetic and weed control was almost impossible without many years of roundup ready crops, soil tests showed decifiencys in all nutrients , It took many years to get farm back into an earlier schedule and maintain acceptable nutrient levels with manufactured fertilizers and chemicals .
Organic grain is worth a little more but low yeilds, Low grain quality and limited market make it too unprofitable .

 

[farmerjim]

organic farming is kind of a pita as most places won't purchase from you unless you are certified organic. which is a royal pain to get certified. is there a big organic customer base in your area? if so it may be worth while, but you will spend a fortune to get certified. you may be better off marketing your product as locally grown or we're not certified organic ,but we do follow organic procedures. the best thing when marketing you products is be honest about them thats what will get the customers as well as word of mouth. imo organic produce isn't as good quality looks wise, to me i want a great looking piece of fruit or veggie.

 

[ChuckinNH]

I have been using organic gardening methods for a number of years now for my own use, and because I'm interested. My plants seem to be pretty healthy, yields are good, and insect damage is minimal. I'm finding out that overtilling the soil is as much of a problem as anything else. Weeds can be a problem if not kept in check early, and if the compost used is not properly prepared....... read finished. I have one pile of finished compost that has been sitting for several months, and there are only a couple of tiny weeds growing on it..... that tells you what will happen in the garden. I think many of the problems that come with organic methods are related to growing large areas of the same crop. I have no experience with that, so I can't comment. I may see what is involved locally in getting certified since there seems to be a demand in this area, but more than likely if I sell any produce I will say that it is grown using organic methods, but not certified organic. I grow way too much for one person, so I'll probably start attending the local farmer's market.

 

[randy41]

i grow veggies for market organically. i am not certified but have been in the past. my sales are under the threshhold required for certification. i have been doing this for about 17 years. it is not my sole source of income. i grow 3 main crops and good years are those that i get good production out of 2 of them. i also grow some things just to have them for sale at the farmers market.
the challenges are insects (cucumber beetles are the worst), weeds, and weather. weather is the bigest factor.
it takes some time to build up the soil.

 

[jbrumberg]

brix:

Welcome to TBN ! IMO organic farming/gardening is very labor intensive. My wife and I used to be totally organic when it came to the garden and gardening prctices, but the last couple of years we started using treated seeds to assist with germination in our cold and wet Spring soil. We still use organic practices as to total insect management (no non-organic "poisons"), alot of manure, rock fertilizers, and mulch, mulch, and more mulch. We still have difficulty maintaining our 27'X40' vegetable garden and our small orchard is a joke all I manage to do is feed the wildlife . Jay

 

[StevenPaul]

Hello one and all!

Ok, organic farming! Don't say "organic" to loud or you'll have the USDA inspectors comin to check you out. It's chemical free! hahaha! How an organization can stake claim to one word is fascinating. But that's a whole nother story. Our experience, or rather the wife's is that, #1, you have to have a passion for it, if you don't forget it, as others have said, it's a lot of work, #2, you have to be extremely patient as opposed to the animals who aren't so patient, #3, research, network, research, network, research, network (I really hate that term, but it works in a pinch). I can't tell you how much doing a lot of research and talking to a lot of people can help. An example, my wife has done so much research on chickens that some of the locals who have had chickens for a very many years sometimes call her up for advice. It's really amazing. But that is a positive side of the internet, there is tons of knowledge out there. We have two 1/2 acre garden plots and we're on our second year and it's actually going pretty good. We hire local high school kids to help out, word of mouth and a little advertising is going a long way, we're still not making any major profit, yet, patience is the key, that and the good Lord leading the way. She has 3 locations right now that she goes to and sells and then theres the "tent and table" on our property. I'm more of just a supporter and repair man that fixes everything she breaks. I love watching it all happen and apart from my job, I do lend a hand when I can. But it is a lot of work. All in all though, if you read a lot of "organic" articles and news stuff, it's a big industry now and gettin in now may pay off, but again and again and again, it's a lot of work, especially for the small farmer. I beleive that the small farmer will flourish again and become as popular and competitive as everything else, despite the Big Boy Names already stakin their claim on the "organic" industry. I always think in times like this of the ol' saying...."the way our grandparents used to do it", or as I tell my wife sometimes, we on our way back to Eden! one step at a time! I could go on and on as this is a passionate subject of mine but duty calls and I'm runnin late.

y'all take care!
Steve

 

[Bill Barrett]

Hi brix I'm thinking about this too. I have a question for everyone can you be certified if you are next to a regular farm? And I do have ground that gets water run off from surrounding farms, is that a deal breaker? There is a market for produce in my area.
Thanks

 

[randy41]

when you get certified you get the area you plant in certified....so if the surrounding farm's runoff is not into your planting area you should be ok. there needs to be a buffer zone between your planting area and any neighboring farms that farm conventionally.

 

[schmism]

i was doing fairly well with the "organic" method for my small garden... that is untill the jap beatles attacked my grean beans Out came the sevin.

Then 2 weeks later they muched off the silks on my corn... again out came the sevin.

(not to mention them munching on the asparagus ferns and the asparagus bettles)

we keep the weeding to the old school mechinal kind, hoe, hand, mantis tiller.

we will put manure on this fall and till in.

 

[Greyfields]

Some of the most profitable market gardeners out there are doing it in 1-2 acres. Size isn't the issue.

Weed control is tough. We use flame weeders along with a lot of manual cultivation. However, I've never worked on a farm or owned one which sprayed. So, I don't know how much more labor intensive it is. It just seems to me all the old school farmers say "If I I can't spray, !@#$% it". I found that an increidbly myopic attitude. I've turned over 4 acres in my field with a 43 HP tractor and am planting field crops.

And don't listen to people who say you can't use any fertilizers. There are all kinds of natural products you can use for soil ammendments. You need to stay on top of your soil testing so you can be selective with what you use. There are also several organic approved herbicides... and most importantly to me, there is an approved slug and snail bait. Honestly, our vegetables have never looked so good as they do now that we're using insecticidal soap and BT.

[edit] p.s. I believe there are several seed innocullants you can use now as well which are natural.

 

[Wesdor]

Brix - organic farming can be profitable if you are in the right area. Where are you located?

For a very excellent look at organic farming and other alternatives, you should check out Broken Limbs
http://www.brokenlimbs.org/

I haven't actually met Guy Evans, but have purchased fruit at the family stand in Chelan. The movie does a good job of laying out a case for organic farming. I do know Grant Gibbs who is featured in the film, and he has been certified organic for many years.

As others have said, you can be chemical free (that is exactly what it implies), or certified organic. You will need to find someone in your area that can guide you to the certification if that is your wish. If you have conventially farmed ground, it will take 3 years of non chemical use to be certified organic.

Once again, it all depends upon your market area, but if you are willing to work very hard and have a passion for this, you have a good chance of making a go of it. Be aware, such a plan will most likely take several years to become profitable. During that time you will get quite an education.

Good luck, this is an area close to my heart.

 

[D7E]

Some of the most profitable market gardeners out there are doing it in 1-2 acres. Size isn't the issue.

Weed control is tough. We use flame weeders along with a lot of manual cultivation. However, I've never worked on a farm or owned one which sprayed. So, I don't know how much more labor intensive it is. It just seems to me all the old school farmers say "If I I can't spray, !@#$% it". I found that an increidbly myopic attitude. I've turned over 4 acres in my field with a 43 HP tractor and am planting field crops.

And don't listen to people who say you can't use any fertilizers. There are all kinds of natural products you can use for soil ammendments. You need to stay on top of your soil testing so you can be selective with what you use. There are also several organic approved herbicides... and most importantly to me, there is an approved slug and snail bait. Honestly, our vegetables have never looked so good as they do now that we're using insecticidal soap and BT.

[edit] p.s. I believe there are several seed innocullants you can use now as well which are natural.

On a scale of this size yes it can work i mean it does'nt work on a 2000acre scale when your running $000'000's of mahinery to cover the acres any thing less than maximum results are not enough , Your organic vegetables might be nicer tasting and i would slightly agree but when it comes down to grain quality on cereals organic is ALWAYS poorer quality ,Low bushell weight,Low protein ,Damaged from lack of fungicides or even slight damage from bugs makes virtually unsaleable .
We tried buyers from all over the states and canada and there was a market but buyers were small scale , If the public were willing to pay for it it would be different ,"Try selling 65'000 bushells of organic oats in 8 weeks ".
All the organic producers around here will not admit it but over half of their grain just gets hauled to the elevator for a low price the"organic" is just an ideal of theirs
Now innoculants are amazing we use 3 types on beans with only potash fertilizer and results are amazing but legumes like beans or alfalfa are self nitrogen fixers so it's a different story .
As for natural fertilizers we ploughed 100's of tons of this crap into the farm like calcified seaweed and other hippy S@#t and it did nothing .
In row crops weed control is easily possible with cultivation but a cereal ?
Summer fallow kind of works but every time you till you just bring another batch of weeds to life (another reason for zero -till )
I'm not against organic but unless peoples buying habits change it will always be small scale .

 

[RalphVa]

I've always grown my veggies and fruits organically. However, I'm not trying to make a living at it.

When colorado potato beetle (CPB) started defoliating my potatoes these last 2 years, I came out with rotenone, an organically allowed insecticide. Va Tech and NC universities have sone some research on ways to draw desirable insects, some of which will eat the CPB. They do this by growing nectar plants (e.g. plants and bushes with flowers) near the veggie garden. I plan to start this by dividing my peonies this fall and putting some near the garden. Another good source of flowers and a good cover crop is buckwheat. I've planted some on rows already harvested and plan to plant some on corn and bean rows that I leave empty, planting 1/2 rows about 10 days apart. Can have buckwheat flowers by June 1.

In my mind some limited use of Roundup (glyphosate) ought to be allowed. Don't think full organic certification allows this. I use it around the edges of the garden (underneath the electric fence that keeps all varmits and hooved rats out; use of 410 to "harvest" hooved rats (7 last year), squirrels (2 this year), groundhogs (no problem) and rabbits (17 last year; 4 this) helps, too.) and on a few hard-to-full weeds while the garden plants are small. Use a 2 liter cola container cut in half with the fill spout over the spray head to limit spread of glyphosate.

I use very little fert: some fish emulsion sometimes and some worm castings. Think you can get good soil fertility by mulching, particularly in the fall and at other times as necessary just to cover the ground. I've raised rows done with a couple of opposed disc hillers and haven't tilled since. LOTS of worms, and I'm sure tons of beneficial nematodes. You disturb or kill a lot of these when tilling, particularly if you use a rototiller to "fluff" the soil.

Vegetable oil sprayed onto the corn silk keeps the Jap beetles off. It'll also keep the corn worms away. Bacillus Thurgensis also keeps the corn worms away; just spritz it onto the fairly big corn plants 2 or 3 times during the growing part before ears form. BT sprayed onto young squash also kills squash beetles during their caterpillar stage. Do it a couple times when they're only 2 to 4 inches tall. Then spray again around the base of the vine after it runs a bit with BT a couple times a week to kill the squash borer. Pull up squash vines and burn them to get rid of any borers that survive. Oh, there is a BT deviate that works on CPB. Haven't found or tried it yet.

I'm getting 2 bushels of squash/week or more this year. The asparagus beans are just starting good. Will probably be giving away about a bushel/week of them soon again like last year.

My garden is 20 rows, 50' long each. Nothing commercial size. Can do it myself.

 

[Greyfields]

You can use roundup for maintenance of roadways and fence lines as long as their are "adequate buffers" between those areas and where organic produciton is going on. Adequate buffers aren't defined but are judged on a case by case basis. I think they're a couple hundred feet. However, the first step to take for anyone going organic is to get your pastures certified. This is good way to tip-toe into certified organic. It allows you to cut organic hay and lease your pasture for organic animals to run on ($$$). However, it then means you have to manually maintain your fence lines. Nature's Avenger is one organically approved herbicide which you can use within the organic areas. One other thing, pressure treated posts will cause you lots of problems. You can't have them in your certified pasture. We used them on all our movable field shelters for skids. We'll have to take them off and replace with wood or recycled plastic once we have our inspection.

 

[Egon]

It was not that many years ago when all farming was organic.

Even I can remember the day.

 

[charlz]

'Heirloom' is a big deal these days as well.... growing non-hybrid vegetables, melons etc. There are lots of interesting heirlooms out there that most people have not seen as they do not hold up in commercial production environments (thin skins etc.)

 

[Kendrick]

Agreed with the heirloom. Also look in to benifical bugs. that is one of the more important things. ie ladybugs for aphids, wasps for worms.

Soil amendmens are a huge part. you have to be careful with their use and there are many ways they can be used. lots of properly cared for compost!

Mother earth news had articles recently you would be intrested in.

To the chicken lady poster.. Im intrested in info if she has a list of good sites or somthing i would appriciate a copy.

 

[Santana]

Organic grain is worth a little more but low yields, Low grain quality and limited market make it too unprofitable.

Yup it's true. Thats the key factor why farmers are not depending on organic farming. But if it could be possible somehow then it may bring them more profits.

 

[D7E]

Yup it's true. Thats the key factor why farmers are not depending on organic farming. But if it could be possible somehow then it may bring them more profits.

Absoluteley ...I'm not against it at all but until consumers change buying habits and are willing to pay for organic food it will not work , But even then it will be the stores or processors taking the profit , Farm prices don't increase when store prices do , And some-times the opposite happens?