oil decision

[ray66v]

An issue with the owners manual is that it is basically the same manual that was copy and pasted together in 2002. 0W engine oils were considered arctic service, 5W oils were pretty well nonexistent. Oils have come a long way in 20 years. Agco/MF did not spend a lot of money on technical writers to update the GC series manuals.

+1

I would also add, that the majority of us are running multi-viscosity oils, and have been for some time. There have been no reported issues.

Rotella also does make a straight 30W oil, (for now), for those who are insistent on following the outdated manual.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Most if not All owner manual states '' the specific oil type or oil that meet the minimum requirement or greater'' 15,10 or 4w40 is superior then 30W

 

[tibadoe]

Getting ready for a oil/filter change on my 1723e. The first oil change I used the AGCO 10W-30. This time I am going to use the Shell Rotella T6 15-40. Meets/exceeds the specs that MF manual states: CJ-4. Specs show it is good to go down to 5*F. I don't start up the tractor below 32*F anyway - so I will be good to go. Will save a little coin and I keep it stocked for another engine anyway.

 

[5030]

Interestingly, my owners manual for my Focus RS turbo plainly states using 0W-40 for engine oil and no substitutes but I never have, I use 5W 40 Rotella T6 (which I buy in 55 gallon drums from my supplier, delivered to the farm). It's cheaper in bulk versus store bought or even online but you do have to still have a way to handle it, I do.

I believe the API weight of the oil has something to do with the VVT when it's cold out, but I've never had an issue myself and the buggy averages 39.5 to 40 mpg, consistently.

I've standardized all my lube and gearbox oils to just 2 varieties, gear box and hydraulic oil is Chevron All Weather Synthetic THC and crankcase oil is Rotella T6. Same with my prime movers, both tractors share the same oil filters, air filters and hydraulic filters so I keep one complete set on hand all the time. Oils are delivered to the farm by my supplier. Only thing I buy outside is antifreeze and it gets turned back in the auto parts store in the jugs (used).

Auto's are the exception but my wife uses her selling dealer for routine maintenance (and they are good and treat her with due respect), unlike most dealers that demean a women's intelligence by trying to 'upsell' them on stuff that is not required. I do have a Holley Range delete on her Suburban that plugs into the OBD port and defeats the inane GM 2-4-8 intake valve actuation that causes the engine to consume oil and fail prematurely and they never say anything. In fact they plug it back in when they access the OBD port to reset the oil change indicator. Must understand the stupid valve delete GM did to increase their 'corporate fuel milage rate increase' Not that the Burb gets good fuel mileage from the get go but the Range delete did improve it somewhat in the highway, from 19 to 20.5 according to the on board fuel use computer that I don't believe anyway. It is a big V8 after all. Takes a big motor to haul around a bus and we don't much care how much it takes to fill it up anyway. Sometime it busts the 100 buck mark on the pump depending on how empty it is. It is what it is but it's nice to have the power under your right foot when required. IOW's it scoots. Besides I like the sound of a wide open V8 pounding away, just like I like the sound of my RS Focus (no longer made), up on the turbo screaming away and my diesel pickup truck on boost too.

 

[5030]

Shell Rotella T6 15-40.

In as much as the forum has changed (and not for the better I might add), it's no longer possible to see a posters location, but, if you reside in a below freezing climate in the winter months, I suggest (from experience) that you use 5-40 Rotella T6 instead of the 15-40 T6, as your tractor will start easier in the cold months. In fact that is all I run now not only in my farm tractors but in all my vehicles as well.

You can substitute T4 semi synthetic so long as it's 5-40 as well because the T4 has the same basic additive package as the T6 does, but in a lesser concentration (which is what you pay more for).

All my lube oil gets a Nano-Borate additive anyway. Nano-Borate keeps the motor clean inside and eliminates any sludge buildup internally and all engines produce some sludge as the heated oil cools off inside when the motor is shut off. It works well. I know as I've pulled the oil pans and valve covers before and looked. No sludge to be found and no brown varnish from synthetic motor oil either, Synthetic motor oil tends to deposit a brown varnish in internal engine components.

 

[ray66v]

All my lube oil gets a Nano-Borate additive anyway. Nano-Borate keeps the motor clean inside and eliminates any sludge buildup internally and all engines produce some sludge as the heated oil cools off inside when the motor is shut off. It works well. I know as I've pulled the oil pans and valve covers before and looked. No sludge to be found and no brown varnish from synthetic motor oil either, Synthetic motor oil tends to deposit a brown varnish in internal engine components.

A lot of people like additives.

My feeling on additives generally is: If an additive is a great idea, why didn't the oil manufacturer put it in their oil? They have worked really hard the last 15 years, and have really improved motor oil dramatically.

In my experience, engines that developed a lot of sludge, did it as a result of poorly designed pollution controls, i.e. EGR systems. They generally seem to have that problem under control now.

 

[5030]

A lot of people like additives.

My feeling on additives generally is: If an additive is a great idea, why didn't the oil manufacturer put it in their oil? They have worked really hard the last 15 years, and have really improved motor oil dramatically.

In my experience, engines that developed a lot of sludge, did it as a result of poorly designed pollution controls, i.e. EGR systems. They generally seem to have that problem under control now.

Because the Nano-Borate additive I use is a patented formula, much like the 24D-B I apply to my hay fields. One company makes it, sets the price and also patented so no one else can duplicate it. All internal combustion engines will make a certain amount of sludge, why I always drain and renew my own motor oil, because the 10 minute oil change places never pull the drain plug, they suck the oil out through the dip stick and that don't get any sludge on the bottom of the oil pan and I change my own filters too and I always but top tier filters as well, always Kubota OEM filters, the engineers at Kubota know better than I do. The Nano-Borate additive I use eliminates most all the sludge and keeps the brown varnish off the internals as well. All synthetic motor oil will produce varnish in internal parts.

I just had the valve covers off my 7.3 Powerstroke to replace the injector harnesses and the inside of the valve covers was squeaky clean as was the top of the heads. I could even read the bar coding on the injector bodies. No varnish and no sludge. Sludge will accumulate on the tops of the heads due to thermal degradation. I have none at all. Same with my tractors and they have 6000 and 4000 hours respectively.

Loke I said, it's not cheap (40 bucks a pint) but well worth it.

You do what you want and believe what you believe but in my case, I know it works so I'll keep on using it.

Only one outfit makes it and will probably stay that way.

 

[ray66v]

Because the Nano-Borate additive I use is a patented formula, much like the 24D-B I apply to my hay fields. One company makes it, sets the price and also patented so no one else can duplicate it. All internal combustion engines will make a certain amount of sludge, why I always drain and renew my own motor oil, because the 10 minute oil change places never pull the drain plug, they suck the oil out through the dip stick and that don't get any sludge on the bottom of the oil pan and I change my own filters too and I always but top tier filters as well, always Kubota OEM filters, the engineers at Kubota know better than I do. The Nano-Borate additive I use eliminates most all the sludge and keeps the brown varnish off the internals as well. All synthetic motor oil will produce varnish in internal parts.

I just had the valve covers off my 7.3 Powerstroke to replace the injector harnesses and the inside of the valve covers was squeaky clean as was the top of the heads. I could even read the bar coding on the injector bodies. No varnish and no sludge. Sludge will accumulate on the tops of the heads due to thermal degradation. I have none at all. Same with my tractors and they have 6000 and 4000 hours respectively.

Loke I said, it's not cheap (40 bucks a pint) but well worth it.

You do what you want and believe what you believe but in my case, I know it works so I'll keep on using it.

Only one outfit makes it and will probably stay that way.

Developing a new technology is the hard part. Once it's developed, it's not generally impossible to backwards engineer it, and make a version of your own that does the same thing. It's done every day, in the chemical, and drug industry.

And, when a company does come up with a break through formula that the big guys can't find an easy way around, one of the big guys, buys them out. Then, they win, because they have a leg up on their competition, (for now). That's done all the time too.

But, the one thing they don't do, is just let it go.

I have worked with R&D guys in the automotive paint industry testing new products for them, and everything I just said, is exactly how they have told me it is.

 

[ultrarunner]

Someone just asked me about Nano-Borate and I don’t know anything about it.

Is there a link for the product you use?

 

[Yander]

I know he is this because he posted on here a while back. I ordered some.

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[5030]

Someone just asked me about Nano-Borate and I don’t know anything about it.

Is there a link for the product you use?

Dure is, they have a .com site but it's out in the shop and I just got done raking hay (in the dark with the headlights on) But I'll get it for you tomorrow.

Company has been selling it for 10 years now and I don't see them selling out to any automaker, either that or their ask price is way too high.

They know they have a unique product that sells like hotcakes. Having said that, they sell it in gallons but I always buy it in pints because I can shake it up easier in the pint bottles than in a gallon and it does separate if left sitting around for a while (Nano-Borate) settles out of the mineral oil carrier and I don't use the entire bottle in anything but my Powerstroke Diesel because it was originally formulated for those engines and their High pressure electronic injection system but it works as well in any engine, I use it in everything now even the lawnmowers.

 

[DMW]

This Nano-Borate is interesting but not really relevant to a 3 quart engine oil change in a GC. In a 6.0 Powerstorke with 15 quarts of oil, and an issue with injector stiction, it may make sense, but here, not so much.

 

[goeduck]

I use Rotella T6 on all of my 6 diesels regardless of owner's manuals recommendations. Mind you that some are old enough that they recommended straight 30W, 20W in winter. They all do well on T6. As mentioned above, don't overthink it. Any name brand synthetic (or maybe a good dino) changed regularly will keep you out of trouble. I ended up on T6 because the engines ran quieter (in my opinion) and my pea brain relates that to being a good thing. Maybe yes or maybe no, but I have never had an oil related engine issue, so I must be doing something right.

 

[CaptPat]

An issue with the owners manual is that it is basically the same manual that was copy and pasted together in 2002. 0W engine oils were considered arctic service, 5W oils were pretty well nonexistent. Oils have come a long way in 20 years. Agco/MF did not spend a lot of money on technical writers to update the GC series manuals.

The issue with not updating the owner’s manual may be true, however, it doesn’t mean that if it were updated these newer weight oils would be recommended or preferred. One needs to be careful about willy-nilly using the latest and greatest oil, as an example a multigrade oil is exactly the wrong oil for a Detroit 2 cycle. Secondly, the benefits of newer weight oils over the “older” formulations are hard to quantify, for example

• Seldom hear of oil-related breakdowns. When they do occur it’s usually coupled with a lack of oil, neglecting oil changes, or some contaminant (e.g. antifreeze). Further, there doesn’t seem to be a link between breakdowns to the type of oil used.
• Most users on this forum don’t put high hours on their tractors, I suspect most oil changes are performed due to time rather than hours and thus any benefit from these newer formulations seems in the margins at best and usually is anecdotal.
• Claims that “lots of folks are using these oils with no issues” are not a persuasive argument for change. We don’t know who “lots” are, and we don’t know the circumstances of use or if there are no issues.

Folks can use the oil they like and I wish them luck. As for me, I’m content to use what the engine manufacturer recommends. Who am I to second guess the folks who designed, built, and warrantied the engine?

 

[ultrarunner]

It’s an interesting topic when engines are old to very old…

Some ORM products no longer exist and contemporary not even imagined for my 120 year old engine and similar for much later.

500 mile oil changes 40wt non detergent hard to come by lady I looked.

I’m still using water pump grease from 1940’s stock… boat trailer grease is reported to have issues.

 

[goeduck]

Oil compatibility is a cake-walk compared to grease.

• C when the mixture is compatible
• N for when it is not compatible, and
• ? when the combination is questionable. (This means it might be compatible, but needs to be tested.

 

[ray66v]

• Claims that “lots of folks are using these oils with no issues” are not a persuasive argument for change. We don’t know who “lots” are, and we don’t know the circumstances of use or if there are no issues.

Sorry, but for those of us who use this forum regularly, we do know who we are.

There are a substantial number of GC owners involved in this forum.

We regularly discuss maintenance, and how we perform it. And, also we discuss mechanical issues, to keep each other informed on problems, and how they were solved, as well as, what to look out for to avoid them.

We also regularly discuss aftermarket items, and oils.

No one is obligated to accept any advice here. You take what you like from it. Sorry, if things are not done in a matter that's scientific enough for you, but we do rely on each other in this forum. And, that's worked out well for all of us for a long time.