oil choices, budget.. etc..

[Soundguy]

Want opinions on some oils I've listed, and their application and suitability.

here's the deal: doin my 4th quarter maintenance budget...

At work we have several diesel pickup trucks in the 250/2500 ( 3/4 ton ) range. A mix of ford 6.0 PSD's and some duramax's all around 04-06 so thus out of manufacturer warranty.

Current administration where I work has always just ran the trucks into the service bay along with the heavy equipment and had the mechanics do the servicing, using either the bulk 15w40 diesel oil we get by the drum or tank ( might be a fina product.. not sure, have to check our supplier this quarter, we just changed distribuitors ), or napa house brand oil 15w40, etc.

All this cost is kept roughly per truck for budget tracking.. ie tracking expenditures..e tc.

A while back I switched the truck I drive, a 6.0psd over to motorcraft 15w40 hd diesel oil.. the 5qt jugs.. they are about 16.20$ at walmart. takes a full 3 jugs, thus 15qts. that puts cost at 48.60. Using the napa oil, it is 14.10 per gallon, 4$ per quart. thus a 15qt change = 54.30 ( 56.40 with 1qt leftover.. etc.. )( I havn't figured the exact bulk oil change cost as our oil prices change per month.. but sure it is cheaper by a % margin)


Contrast to that.. I've located mobil delvac 1300 synthetic blend at 17$ per gallon/ 4.50 per qt, IE.. 68$ w/1qt leftover or 64.50/15qts

I'm getting our budget together for the pickups , and I'm trying to get my boss to quit buying that napa oil. for some reason,way back when, napa got their hooks into our upper management. for parts and whatnot.. OK.. napa and car quest are sure convienient. but for fluids.. they just are not economical as my research has shown. in any case.. I'm getting the data together.. so far.. simply switching to the motorcraft 15w40 oil vs the napa oil, is a tangible cost savings of $5.30 per pickup ,and IMHO, a better quality oil. ( PS.. delo 15w40 from walmart fell right in line with the motorcraft oil $ wise, and the guy in the back office is doing the same as i am.. he changes his 00 chevy work pickup with delo 15w40 )

In any case.. just looking at that quick hash... napa dino oil, motorcraft/delo dino oil or the mobil delvac 1300 syn blend..

the motorcraft / delo oil is IMHO a better quality oil than the napa house brand, and is actually cheaper... the delvac is 10$ more than the napa and moves you into a synthetic blended oil... which.. should be the best of the 3 options. that's what I'm going to present/propose with the following recomendations. either we start saving 5$ per oil change per pickup and go to motorcraft/delo, or spend 10$ more per pickup per oil change and move to the delvac syn blend. using the napa as the baseline middle ground... which IMHO.. should not be an option at all.. thus using either the 5$ savings or the 10$ increased expense. both being what I percieve as a better oil.. thus save 5$ and have better oil, or spend 10$ more and have an even better oil ( syn blend ).

thoughts an opinions.

I know it sounds like counting pennies.. but.. in bad economic times we are looking our budgets over for everything.. all consumables are on a buy as needed /approval needed basis.. tightening belts so much we have a wasp waist i think...


( oh yeah.. forgot to ask.. having not used a synthetic 'blend' before.. am I in the correct line of thinking here of the extra protection the syn bledn offers over the dino oil? .. for my personal vehicle, a 7.3psd, I went further and use valvoline premium blue full syn 5w40 at a chilly price of 29$ per gallon.. didn't even put that on the table as a choice for work.. )

soundguy

 

[dodge man]

I'll throw out another idea, go with a high end synthetic, and test the oil, and see if you can extend the oil changes longer.

 

[Diamondpilot]

This is a personal decision but I can agree on Napa. Needed to do 4 oil changes yesterday and put brakes on a GMC C60 Dump truck. Napa first of could not find any info on the C60. Rotella Syn 5W40 was $37 a gallon. I walked out and went down to O'Rileys.

The guy there found all the the brake parts in 20 minutes, drums, wheel, cylinders, shoes, ect. The same Rotella oil was $22 a gallon vs the $37 Napa wanted. I am done with Napa. I bough $600 worth of stuff of which oil was over $200 yesterday. It would have cost $1000 at Napa.:confused2:

Chris

 

[Soundguy]

I'll throw out another idea, go with a high end synthetic, and test the oil, and see if you can extend the oil changes longer.
__________________

not one of the options I mentioned.. thus not a possibility. last time a premium synthetic oil was mentioned the boss took off his hat, threw it on the table and loud shouting started... not going there again... pricepoint are the deal here.. thus i have to show options within a reasonable close range.. ie.. not too much more expensive. and the concept of going 2x as long thus the price dropping by half isn't flying.. not sure if it's the wait for the oil anylysis, vs the need it changed now and we have 15 minutes down time.. or if the boss doesn't want the oil to stay in 15K miles as the trucks can idle 2-3 hours a day, and he likes to stay on the 'severe duty' side of the changes.. ie. 3500-5k depending on the specific trucks we are talking about.. not the 5k to 7.5k regular intervals.. etc.

that's what I'm up against.

soundguy

 

[bp fick]

Shopping is always wise, in my universe. When I see Delo dino on an end cap for $14 a gallon? Or Rotella T6 for $20/T5 for $16 or MotorCraft semi-syn for $17? You bet I notice.

When I see Motocraft filters for $4 or Baldwin/Hastings for $5? I buy them. When you've got even a small "fleet" to maintain, this stuff adds up fast. We're talking some real money here. Lot's of things I can do with an extra 100 bucks. I try to stay ahead on oil/filters stock, and only buy when as I find "best price" sales.

When I am responsible, in the corporate world, for the budgets on things I shop just as hard as I do with my own money.

As for semi-syn Motorcraft, it is the recommended 5w-20 for my truck, it was required during warranty period so that's about all it has ever had in it. (not Motorcraft, but 5w-20, although, Motorcraft is what I used)

Added protection? Some, but semi is not full synthetic, but neither is it priced that high either, and THAT is the balancing act. Some folks pooh pooh semis as a waste of money, as being "neither fish nor fowl". It's your call on that one.

 

[Soundguy]

anyone here use that delvac 1300 15w40 syn blend diesel oil?

opinions on it? is it worth the $ increase over dino oil? ie.. 17$/gallon vs motorcraft or delo at 13$ per gallon?

soundguy

 

[dodge man]

not one of the options I mentioned.. thus not a possibility. last time a premium synthetic oil was mentioned the boss took off his hat, threw it on the table and loud shouting started... not going there again... pricepoint are the deal here.. thus i have to show options within a reasonable close range.. ie.. not too much more expensive. and the concept of going 2x as long thus the price dropping by half isn't flying.. not sure if it's the wait for the oil anylysis, vs the need it changed now and we have 15 minutes down time.. or if the boss doesn't want the oil to stay in 15K miles as the trucks can idle 2-3 hours a day, and he likes to stay on the 'severe duty' side of the changes.. ie. 3500-5k depending on the specific trucks we are talking about.. not the 5k to 7.5k regular intervals.. etc.

that's what I'm up against.

soundguy

I understand, maybe there is certain times its convenient to change the oil, so thats when it gets done. If thats the case, and it gets changed on a regular basis, I'd probably go with the cheaper dino oil.

 

[Soundguy]

Yep.. budget is budget.. if I can shave a lil off in one spot.. I can add it to others.. or lower operating cost as a whole.

If the semi-syn is worth it price wise and service /protection for the truck over the dino oil, then I have a plan. Some of our management is in the class of what I call old school thinkers. these are , ahem, older gentleman, more or less set in their ways.. and well.. the idea of a synthetic oil just isn't something they want to try, or even read about / think about. thus, I am thinking of approaching the situation as follows.

right now we are using the napa oil in all but 2 vehicles, as me and the guy in the back office already switched to the delo for his and motorcraft for mine. (a 5$ savings per oil change).. which is the ONLY reason we got approval to do this, VS paying for expenses with our own money.. etc.

Ok.. with that baseline, and with the older management that will not consider the syn blend oil, not because of the 10$ price increase so much, but because it is syn (blend).. then I should be able to swing the following. convert their machines over to either the delo or motorcraft oil. that will be a 5$ savings per vehicle.. and they should be ok with a plain dino oil. now.. for every 2 vehicles that I can save that on, I can then upgrade 1 to the syn blend. thus if 2/3 of the truck 'fleet' changes to the cheaper/?better? delo/motorcraft dino oil vs the napa dino oil, then 1/3 of the fleet can convert to the ?better? mobile delvac sun blend oil, with a net cost change of -0-$. or, if there is less than 1/3 that want to do the change, then there will actually be some modest amount of cost savings, to the tune of 5$ per vehicle per change that does not convert to syn, past that 2/3's group.

I think I can 'sell' that to management.

better oil and cheaper, and dino, .. get that into place vs the napa oil, then with that cost savings in 'hand' anyone who wants to further upgrade to syn blend can, at a rate of 1 syn changeover per 2 napa -2- motorcraft/delo changeovers... with any unused syn blend 'slots' equalling an overall cost savings.

whew.. lotsa work to -0- out or save 5$ per on a budget.. gtta love paper pushing in 2001 economics..

soundguy

Shopping is always wise, in my universe. When I see Delo dino on an end cap for $14 a gallon? Or Rotella T6 for $20/T5 for $16 or MotorCraft semi-syn for $17? You bet I notice.

When I see Motocraft filters for $4 or Baldwin/Hastings for $5? I buy them. When you've got even a small "fleet" to maintain, this stuff adds up fast. We're talking some real money here. Lot's of things I can do with an extra 100 bucks. I try to stay ahead on oil/filters stock, and only buy when as I find "best price" sales.

When I am responsible, in the corporate world, for the budgets on things I shop just as hard as I do with my own money.

As for semi-syn Motorcraft, it is the recommended 5w-20 for my truck, it was required during warranty period so that's about all it has ever had in it. (not Motorcraft, but 5w-20, although, Motorcraft is what I used)

Added protection? Some, but semi is not full synthetic, but neither is it priced that high either, and THAT is the balancing act. Some folks pooh pooh semis as a waste of money, as being "neither fish nor fowl". It's your call on that one.

 

[Soundguy]

so I guess to reiterate the question I posted a few posts up... is the delvac 1300 15w40 syn blend oil better than motorcraft or delo 15w40 dino oil.

it will be a straight miles per miles trade.. no extended milage drains, and will be based on the vehicles 'severe' interval listed in the owners manual, so it will be straight apples to apples. IE.. 5k on motorcraft 15w40 vs 5k onthe delvac syn blend.

am I thinking inthe correct direction here? or has someone used the delvac and found it to be an inferior oil?

thanks

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

I understand, maybe there is certain times its convenient to change the oil, so thats when it gets done. If thats the case, and it gets changed on a regular basis, I'd probably go with the cheaper dino oil.

yep, unfortunately due to the nature of our work with road contracting, these trucks rarely hit the office except inthe am and pm, and if they hit in between it's a drive thru to grab tools, switch people, grab some blueprints..e tc..e tc...

thus when the clock goes off and one of the guys says his milage interval is up for change, it's literally, stick it in line and run it thru the shop right then and there and change and go.. no time to draw an oil sameple, wait 2-4 days and then decided if it needs change, as that truck may be on a job down south for the next week, and then, thus not available for the change.

not ideal.. but it's what I'm stuck with being the 'controller' for this sort of thing. i'd much prefer scheduled maintenance plans.. but timing is a pickle here.

that's why I'm researching price vs product to see if i can move us into a slightly better product for essentially the same price. .. or a price savings, and if doing so, if I can actually get a even slightly better product liek that syn blend for some of the vehicles.

right now, I know I'm wanting to ditch napa as our pickup truck oil supplier. straight out I can save 5$ on paper per oil change per truck going to a name brand delo or motorcraft oil.. and I can't imagine the motorcraft or delor oil is any worse than napa house brand, and in fact.. i have half an idea it's a hair better.. thus a no brainer. change that oit and save. with that savings, if it's worth it, I can upgrade a few of the vehicles to syn blend... again.. if it's worth it. and thus do it at a null cost.

what I'm really trying to find out is what peoples opinion is of that delvac 1300 syn blend diesel oil. is it work the price increase over dino at 10$ per change, per vehicle. if it is.. I can swing it, based on the saving from switching the rest of the fleet to delo or motorcraft vs napa, and have some 'upgrade slots' available for the syn blend oil.. etc.

soundguy

 

[bp fick]

Soundguy,

Go with the budget plan that saves the most bucks. All these oils are top draw and none will give you any issues. Unless you're willing to go full synthetics, your extended drains intervals won't be noticeably longer.

IIRC, the reason Ford went with semi-syn for their gas trucks is because they likely had to spiff up the specs to make 5w-20 hold up. Just a guess mind you, reading between the lines on Ford's tech releases.

At 5K drain intervals, dino would be just fine. No way a company like Chevron and a name like Delo is going to be junk stuff. Ain't gonna happen. These formulas are not that big of mystery, imho.

OK, you can't "sell" the old guard on synthetics combined with longer drain intervals. If you can't sell that, you can't. It's a trade-off anyhow, monetarily. Costs much more, keep it in the engine longer, = trade off.

Then, begin your budget cutting proposals at the purchasing level, not per se, the product itself. Why the heck would a company waste money buying from any source that is way over-priced? Convenience is fine, long time customer loyalty is also fine, but over paying NAPA just for grins? Na da.

Then, get down to the product. X cost for dino, and Y cost for semi. I can assure you that if semi syn is more than a 15% bump in price, it rarely is worth the added costs to the budget. But if dino and semi are sitting there at the same price? Semi wins hands down!!

 

[Soundguy]

Thanls for the sounding board. It's just frustrating working within the confines I'm bound by.

For sure I'm pushing to ditch the nap dio oil at LEAST in favor for the delo or motorcraft oil. has to be at least as good of an oil, and is a straight out, on paper savings, per truck, per change.

that part -should- be a done deal.

Now.. with that budget savings in hand.. if I wanted to.. i could upgrade select machines to that semi-synthetic.. there's where I'm at now.

Not sure if the semi-syn is getting me anywhere with the straight drain interval, which I can guarantee is not over 5k on any of the vehicles in my chart. just looking here, I see 3000, 3500, 4000, and 5000 listed on the various files in front of me for the severe duty drain intervals from our 99-2006 fleet.

with no hard data on that semi-syn.. I just don't know if it's worth it to go for it for select vehicles. IE. the couple of us that are not ' olde guarde' guess it couldn't hurt to do the upgrade for me and the guy in the back room for one change, save a fist full of bucks on the others, use some of that fist full to buy 4 UOA's and see where that semi syn falls .. ie.. 2 uoa on the motorcraft / delo, at next change, and then 2 more after switch to the semi-syn, then compair them heads up, and see if that extra 10$ per change is doing ANYTHING on a shork 4-5K interval on those 2 trucks. then go from there.. my gut feeling is on that short change, the semi-syn will be nothing more than an expense as the dino oil will likely still be within useful specs.. thus that 10$ per change is more or less waste.. unless cold startup with better oil film from t he syn portion equates to that much benefit.. which I doubt it does...

ho hum..


soundguy

 

[Turbys_1700]

I don't know what your yearly usage is but around here most shops go with Rotella T in the 55 gallon drums...
Sam's club sells it here for around $9/gal last time I checked...
The only way to justify that cost is to use a lot of oil...
The last service I had done to my truck the local Ford dealer serviced it for $62.50...
That's a 15 qt. change with a Motorcraft filter and Rotella oil...
As long as they do it for that price I'll keep going to them...

 

[Soundguy]

timing would be inconvienient for us to take our trucks to the dealer. even if we could figure out the timing, the only dealer in our city is a ford dealer. the gm / chevy guys would have to drive 30m north.. definately not fitting their schedule I'm afraid.

9$ a gallon bulk , compaired to the jug prices is darn good. unfortunately we are getting oil from our fuel dealer..
i'm not sure what kind of red tape it would take to change that..

soundguy
soundguy

 

[dodge man]

I don't think I would mess with synthetic if I were you. I use it because I either extend my oil change intervals out by mileage or time. If you aren't going to do that, where is the cost savings? The real reason I use Amsoil is its maybe one less time I have to crawl under a vehicle in a year to change the oil. If you kept your vehicles for a really long time, it might pay off in the long run, but I doubt it. Most of the time a vehicle or tractor falls apart long before the engine wears out. There might be a slight increase in fuel mileage, but I doubt that is enough to pay off.

 

[Soundguy]

I DO keep my vehicles long term. In fact, the co I work for generally does that replacement / cost track system, and statistically, when a vehicle gets 'too old' they sell it. They almost always offer the vehicle for sale to the person who operates it if it is an assigned vehicle ( IE.. most of the management and admins has a company provided work vehicle ).. or if it is a general unasigned vehicle, it is offered for sale to anyone inthe co, first come first serve. if you pass on the offer, then it goes for sale int he parking lot. Since we do 5yr amoritized loads on the vehicles or less, most vehicles get sold 6-10 yrs old. Unless something changes where I can't swing it. I -DO- plan on buying this f250 from work if/when it goes for sale.. etc.

that's not specifically why I'm thinking the syn blend oil.. i really just trying to maintain it.. stewardship.. etc. if it's in better condition when it does sell.. that's a bonus IMHO.

I'm a maintenance oriented person. I like preventative maint, and repairs. keeps things rolling.

over the years on my personal vehicles. i have owned non less than 12 ys, and some near 20, usually only selling or letting them go when they are shelled out, or not fitting my needs anymore.

soundguy

 

[dodge man]

Have you ever had to replace a engine because of wear? If so, then a sny. blend might be a good idea. If not, where will you be saving money using it?

 

[dusty3030]

NAPA house brand is Valvoline on motor oil.

Shop around your fuel / oil distributors. Any individual one will have better deals on some brands than others. Most oil / fuel distributors will be a "flagship" for one brand as well as have some off brands and can get any brand. They buy direct from the oil companies just like NAPA or WalMart or Oreilly etc. Whoever any particular distributor buys the most from they generally get the best deal. You have the best chance of getting better pricing from the oil distributor, push back. They have wiggle room. Remember, "No means maybe, maybe means yes."

Now for your company, NAPA and the fuel distributor probably give them terms with a discount for paying early. That is attractive to your company I'm sure.

 

[Diamondpilot]

anyone here use that delvac 1300 15w40 syn blend diesel oil?

opinions on it? is it worth the $ increase over dino oil? ie.. 17$/gallon vs motorcraft or delo at 13$ per gallon?

soundguy

Not sure if its true or not but my oil guy told me most semi-syn oils are only 3% synthetic. He said they are a waste of money.

Chris

 

[Soundguy]

I'll answer a few in one post.

no.. NEVER an engine failure due to lube.. point taken

Yes, I had heard napa oil was valvoline.. interestingly enough, carquest oil carries the same bottler 'address as napa oil.. and those corespond to valvoline as well. I had figured were the same.. had never heard 'conclusively' that they were though.. point taken.. valvoline should be just as good as oil as any of the other dino's mentioned. my only questions is that since it is a custom bottled house brand.. is that would it contain the same add package / same amount of add package.. or a lesser based on store specs / price point. I hear warren unilube does the same, as they produce oils for a whole bunch of people.. i'm sure all with different adds.. etc, as per specification.

Yes.. discount for early pay.

Yes.. the petro dealers in our area all represent different brands, and have different offerings for oils and grease.. some are more competitive with some products than others.. etc. unfortunately.. a couple of the best distribs on fuel prices are a bit agressive with their selling practices, and if they find you deal with another supplier for bulk oil / grease.. the cut your fuel off.. or put you last on the list. this is one reason we went to 'jug' oil for the trucks.. they don't seem to mind store competition as long as it's not a competing distribuitor. At one time we added up a drum of 15w40 diesel oil from that fuel supplier.. and we could buy jugged for same $$ or sometimes cheaper hyd oil seems to be pretty competitive across the board though.. hyd or utf.. etc.

on the blend being only 3% wow.. that's the info I needed to hear. IE.. not much gain for at least semi-significant price raise.

thanks

soundguy