NX6010 suction side hydro leak

[MinnesotaEric]

Be careful running with foamed up oil as bad as this, lubrication properties are greatly diminished. This def sounds more of an aeration problem then a cavitation problem. I wonder if the pump has slowly failed because of this suction side leak you mention, over time. I hope the new filter housing works out for you. If it does, you may also want to push to have the pump investigated for damage due to the leaking filter housing.

A couple of years ago I rolled a stump and bent my suction side into the reverse linkage (see video). I got it sorted out enough to continue to use until I did my 400 hour service at which time I replaced all the bent or damaged parts. What i did learn about that experience is that the o-ring sealed parts must be "fitted," and that likely i would have been just as well off by properly bending my damaged parts back into shape, rather than purchasing new parts as the new parts required being properly bent into shape to seal the O-rings. I shared my suction side experience in post 1291.

 

[Overtaxed]

Just wanted to provide a quick update, Kioti would only send out a new filter housing, dealer is 90% sure that's not the problem. So I told him to order a hydro pump too and I'll eat the restock if it turns out to be the filter housing, I really want this problem solved as quickly as possible and it's already been over a month. Kioti was apparently shut down for EOY inventory, so the dealer still doesn't have the parts, crossing my fingers for Monday. It was cold here the other day and I needed to move some IBC totes, tractor was in bad shape. Jerky, FEL a mess.. After I ran it for a bit things smoothed out, but this issue has been getting progressively worse, when I got the machine it always felt a little less than smooth to me; now, it's clear something is wrong.

My biggest hope is that when this is resolved everything is better than it ever was. As I said in my original post, this is was my first hydrostat, so I really didn't have an idea of what to expect. It's when I got the small JD that it became clear to me "that's not right" because the JD was so much smoother and more responsive. So, crossing my fingers. Just wish Kioti would get off their butts and ship the parts!

 

[Overtaxed]

Welp.. I was wrong. It was the filter housing. Dealer came over this afternoon and we pulled out the filter housing and put in the new one.. Started it up; perfect. <shaking head>

The filter housing was backordered for months, that should have told us something; why on earth is there a run on NX filter housings unless... There's some problem with at least some of them. We looked over the old housing real good, not much to see, maybe a little paint in a place it shouldn't be, but, beyond that, it looked fine. But that was absolutely the problem, the moment we cranked it over, it was immediately evident that the problem had been resolved.

Taking that housing apart, it's obvious there are possible areas for problems in there. That housing is attached with a few o-rings to seal it and it's held together just by pressure (no bolts, not screwed down). However, that said, that wasn't the problem because the dealer had already split it and changed the o-rings.. It was something in the housing itself, and, there's not a lot to it, it's just a piece of steel. Really strange, but there must have been a defect in some of them that lead to this problem.

Just wanted everyone to know in case they ran into the bubbles in the suction line problem. The filter housing can absolutely be the cause, it was for me.

Now, the only question, I think this problem has been there since delivery. Tractor always felt a little jerky.. Got about 250 hours on it, and I'm wondering if I should try to get them to change the pump. What are the chances that the air in the system damaged it? I still have 5 years left on my powertrain warranty, so, maybe just a 'wait and see', but, if it's going to break or likely been damaged, I'm going to start a campaign to get it fixed rather than wait for it to break.

 

[YLee Kioti]

Thanks for the update. Now that the dealer has the old filter housing unit, maybe the factory will do a root cause analysis.
Either way glad you got it resolved with a dealer supporting your equipment issues.

Between this issue and the other Kioti thread where the vendor will not support owner with at least a good will effort on a early failed engine appears to be trending a corporate optics issue of quality?
But your was a huge plus!:cool2:

 

[Overtaxed]

Now that the dealer has the old filter housing unit, maybe the factory will do a root cause analysis.

I'm pretty sure they know there's some kind of problem here. If they didn't know there was something up with the filter housing, there's no way they'd make the dealer change that before the pump (the obvious likely problem) unless they knew something was up. The dealer got into a battle with them and they just insisted he change the filter housing, he told me, point blank "I very much doubt this will fix it, but they want me to do that first". Now, before everyone flips out, it could have been a single production run that had a problem, they knew my serial number, and maybe they knew there was a problem with some of those filter housings. The dealer had never seen this problem before, and he's sold and worked on a lot of NX's. But I'm pretty convinced that Kioti knew there's a problem, and is working to resolve it. Hence the reason that filter housing was backordered for so long; that's not a wear out part, why's there such a run on them that the original estimate for delivery was mid-Jan? Something is up with some of those housings and they are replacing them (which is good, very good, because they've found the issue and are making sure dealers are changing the right parts to fix it, exactly what they should do).

Overall, happy with the experience, and can't wait to take my tractor out tomorrow, I could tell driving it down from the shop after the repair, it's totally different. Feels like my other tractor now, hydro is fast and responsive. I'm sure this has been a problem since day 1 and it's just progressively gotten worse. Feels 100% better now, that's for sure. Still worried about what might be damaged by running like this for so long.. Doesn't seem like pumping foam for 100's of hours could have been good for the pump.

 

[YLee Kioti]

Think your spot on.
Kioti, like any company can have a bad production run for a sundry of reasons.
Gives me a warm fuzzy now.
The other thread at first on a low hours engine failure kinda made me question a lot but as that thread develops I'll just follow and learn from it as well.
Sunday is to be a good sunny day Been using the NX to hold back hackberrys to keep them from falling over neighbor's fence. Have another 100 feet left to clear the last of the fence line. Hope you have as much fun tomorrow! :drink:

 

[Coyote machine]

Great news! Glad to hear your issue is/was known by Kioti, and their insistence that your dealer change the HST filter housing, along with it's back order status shows there was behind the scenes knowledge, not know by the dealer network, at least not your dealer. That's not a slam on his knowledge; maybe Kioti has known for a while and was looking for the root cause, and halted inventory output until the issue was determined and solved; which may never become common knowledge by the dealer network. I wonder if there was or is a service bulletin out or coming out soon on the issue?

As far as the speculation about the 'low hour NX series tractor' for which NO detailed info has been shared to date; unless the OP steps up on sharing how and when the incident occurred it would seem the conclusion may turn out to be the 2 threads by the OP may be a product bashing campaign.

PLUS being over a year or more past warranty expiration gains the OP no real credibility without WAY more details, which the OP has not provided. I know for a fact Kioti HAS replaced engines past warranty clock time- BUT that is their choice, on a case by case basis, and based substantially on good will and verification of the circumstances. Running out the warranty clock and having low hours on an engine is not a slam dunk that Kioti, or any manufacturer will cough up a new engine just because. :thumbdown:

People need to get a grip on reality- just because one's expectations are high does NOT equate that any manufacturer is not doing their job by refusing to provide major parts to a customer past warranty; even if the engine only has few hours clocked.

 

[JimR]

Welp.. I was wrong. It was the filter housing. Dealer came over this afternoon and we pulled out the filter housing and put in the new one.. Started it up; perfect. <shaking head>

The filter housing was backordered for months, that should have told us something; why on earth is there a run on NX filter housings unless... There's some problem with at least some of them. We looked over the old housing real good, not much to see, maybe a little paint in a place it shouldn't be, but, beyond that, it looked fine. But that was absolutely the problem, the moment we cranked it over, it was immediately evident that the problem had been resolved.

Taking that housing apart, it's obvious there are possible areas for problems in there. That housing is attached with a few o-rings to seal it and it's held together just by pressure (no bolts, not screwed down). However, that said, that wasn't the problem because the dealer had already split it and changed the o-rings.. It was something in the housing itself, and, there's not a lot to it, it's just a piece of steel. Really strange, but there must have been a defect in some of them that lead to this problem.

Just wanted everyone to know in case they ran into the bubbles in the suction line problem. The filter housing can absolutely be the cause, it was for me.

Now, the only question, I think this problem has been there since delivery. Tractor always felt a little jerky.. Got about 250 hours on it, and I'm wondering if I should try to get them to change the pump. What are the chances that the air in the system damaged it? I still have 5 years left on my powertrain warranty, so, maybe just a 'wait and see', but, if it's going to break or likely been damaged, I'm going to start a campaign to get it fixed rather than wait for it to break.

The old filter housing is more than likely porous on the inside between chambers. Running a pump with air in the oil is disastrous to a pump due to cavitation. Hopefully your tractor is fixed now.

 

[JimR]

A couple of years ago I rolled a stump and bent my suction side into the reverse linkage (see video). I got it sorted out enough to continue to use until I did my 400 hour service at which time I replaced all the bent or damaged parts. What i did learn about that experience is that the o-ring sealed parts must be "fitted," and that likely i would have been just as well off by properly bending my damaged parts back into shape, rather than purchasing new parts as the new parts required being properly bent into shape to seal the O-rings. I shared my suction side experience in post 1291.

I had a large branch do this same thing to mine but it tore the junction hose in half. I replaced it with a clear piece I bought from Lowe's. I bent it back the same way.

 

[xcgreene]

GREAT NEWS! glad its all together again. As you also had mentioned, I would def push forward on the hydraulic pumps replacement, or at the very least, opened up and inspected for damage due to compromised oil from foaming. I'm unsure of how this may have effected the axial piston pumps in the HST, or the power steering motor, but I would worry less about those, as its the hydraulic pumps that are taking the brunt of the foamed oil straight from the filter housing.

Thanks for getting back to everyone! Surely this thread will assist others scouring the internet for answers.