Novice with 36 acres

[tdamico]

Hi.

I just purchased a 36 acre tract of land in Colorado. It is at 8,000 feet. What I need is a tractor to do some digging for paths, clearing of brush, hauling cut logs, and a snow blower attachment to clear snow from the road that I will have put in about 300 yards long. No grass cutting needed. I was thinking of a Bobcat, Toolcat or compact tractor. Any suggestions on the right choice and right horsepower would be appreciated.

 

[ByronBob]

How much do you want to spend?
How much snow are we talking about?
Is there a road there already your improving?
Are you making trails where there are none?

I'm already thinking something in the 30hp range like a Kubota L39. You might loose up to 8hp with that elevation.

 

[tdamico]

I have a budget of around $30K. Average snow fall yearly is around 180". The road will be maintained by the owner's association, we need to do the road/driveway that leads to the house. This will be put in place, will be a gravel drive, about 300 yards, gently sloping. Yes we will be making trails were none exist.

 

[bam747]

I live in the front range of Colorado and have lots and lots of experience and information for you on handling snow as well as extensive experience with utility tractors.

I'm currently an unemployed high tech refuge, so I've got a lot of time on my hands right now. I've been composing several pages of thoughts and suggestions for you already that is way to long to post. If you're up for PM, I'd be happy to send it to you that way.

I also saw that you posted a budget amount of $30K and that you mentioned a Toolcat. I've looked into the Toolcat myself. That $30k might be barely enough for a Toolcat with a bucket and a snow blade or maybe even a snow blower, but only if you forgo the turbo model (with high flow hydraulics) and the heated and air conditioned cab enclosure.

I'd highly recommend the turbo at your altitude as well as the high flow option (which isn't all that "high flow" compared to the larger Bobcat skid steers). And the heated cab would be really nice in the winter, especially with the snow blower.

My very long winded PM message has a section on what I've seen regarding the Toolcat, which may be a very viable alternative to a utility tractor. I also remember seeing a post mentioning that Bobcat was offering the heated and air conditioned cab enclosure option for free right now. Don't know it that is still true or not.

 

[tdamico]

I would appreciate any advice you have. PM works fine for me.

Tom /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[BillG_in_TX]

tdamico,

Just fyi - you may have to turn on the Private Message (PM) capability. I know for sure that you have to turn on the notification feature, so that you'll get an e-mail notifying you that you have received a PM.

While you're there (in My Home - look for the link toward the top of the page) you might fill in your profile.

 

[tdamico]

Private messaging is turned on in my profile but thanks for the head's up. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[bam747]

I'll send you the PM. Get a cup of coffee! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

To the rest of the TBN community, I'm not trying to hide anything, it's just that I ended up slapping together about 5 pages of, hopefully useful, general non brand specific rambling on my 30+ years of Colorado snow removal and utility tractor experience. I'll let tdamico decide if any of it might be useful to other people.

 

[Soundguy]

30-40 hp is my guess. 36 ac is alot of land.. don't want to have too small a tractor.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[BrianSouthernMD]

tdamico,
It will break your $30K budget with attachments. But after testing the Toolcat on my farm for three days last week, it met every challenge. Now it's hard to consider anything that doesn't have all implements mounted up front or have 4/wheel steering!

See my thread in this forum comparing Bobcat Toolcat and Power Trac 1850 for details.

 

[tdamico]

Actually, the 30K budget is just a place holder. If I have to go more, I will. The ToolCat is #1 so far, on paper, on my list. It seems to have all the functionality I need. My concerns with it are the fact that it has wheels rather than a track (like one model of the BobCat itself) and how those wheels will act in hard winter weather. I suspect that if I go the ToolCat path I will need to put chains on it. And the second is the HP. At 8000+ feet how much of a HP hit will it take and will what's left be enough.

 

[bam747]

The Toolcat 5600 has a 48 HP Kubota engine. Using the 3% per 1000 feet rule of thumb for HP loss versus your 8000' altitude (discussed a lot on TBN), that ends up being effectively 36.5 HP (48 * (1 - (.03 * 8))).

The Toolcat 5600 Turbo has a 58 HP Kubota turbocharged engine. Turbo motors loose very little HP versus altitude, so this means you actually get most of that 56 HP.

Since by definition you will be pushing any snow removal implement ahead of the Toolcat, its tires will not have to dig through deep snow. If you look at the Bobcat website, you can find a lot of information and articles on using Bobcat equipment, and specifically the Toolcat, for snow removal.

Also, the Toolcat 5600 Turbo weighs 4820 lbs with no attachments. In the case of moving snow, weight is your ally. Still, I'd have a set of 4 chains around. At least the Toolcat's tires are relatively small so the chains will be fairly inexpensive. Note that the down side to using chains is that if you run them on paved or concrete driveways, they can mark up the surface, especially if you spin the tires.

BTW, with your annual 180" (or 15 FEET!) of snow fall, I'm thinking you'll really want to use the high flow (I believe the 5600 Turbo Toolcat includes the high flow option) snow blower attachment so you don't have to worry about where to pile up all that snow for the whole winter. And at 8000' in Colorado, that snow will be around all winter.

 

[tdamico]

I agree with what you have said. It is my intention to get a snow thrower attachment regardless of what I go with. Sometimes we will get measured snowfall of over 4 feet and I wouldn't want to be pushing that snow. Talk about needed HP! The drive will be gravel so chains wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

I guess if you can afford it, it will sure save a bunch of neck- craning! Which in turn can save on chiropractic bills. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[bam747]

Clearing a 4 foot dump in one pass? Ouch! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Well, there are blowers that can eat that up all in one shot. See the big single or double or triple(!) auger Loftness snow blowers at this site. I have their brochure and they show some pretty impressive capabilities of their bigger blowers. You can download their brochure and pricing if you're interested. They also have an interesting video if you've got a broadband connection.

'Course, you'll need a 105+ PTO HP tractor to power the larger "standard duty" blowers. Plan on 150+ PTO HP for the "heavy duty" double auger models. You'll need 180+ PTO HP for the really big boy triple auger "industrial duty" 72" cutting height model! I'm thinking that'll be just a "tad" outside of a $30K budget! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Meanwhile, back in the real world, using a Toolcat Turbo with a high flow blower, you'd have to get out in the 4' storm and keep ahead of it a foot or two at a time. With the nice enclosed and heated Toolcat cab, that shouldn't be a big deal. And, up at your altitude in Colorado, the snow should normally be the light powdery stuff that will blow really well.

 

[bam747]

By the way, given that the snow blower on a Toolcat is mounted out front on its loader and it has a hydrostatic drive, you can always eat your way through some pretty deep snow if you think "vertical" in stead of "horizontal".

For example, drive the blower a foot or two into 4+ feet of snow, then curl the blower back and lift it up to carve its way vertically through the deep snow. Bring the blower back down to the ground, level it, and do it all again.

It might take a while, but I don't see any fundamental reason, given time, that you couldn't deal with some pretty deep snow or snow drifts that way. 'Course, I wouldn't want to clear out a half mile or more of 4' deep snow that way! Hence the keep ahead of it technique.

 

[tdamico]

I appreciate all the information. I used to live in Monument Colorado for over 7 years. I ate through that blizzard of about 7-8 years ago that dumped over 4' of snow on us with a Sears snowthrower (albet a large one!) So I have to believe that the snow thrower attachement that goes with either the ToolCat or BobCat will be enough. You're right. You just have to eat away a little at a time. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[bam747]

Just curious...

Made any decisions yet? Won't be too much longer before it starts snowing up there at 8000 feet in Colorado! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

FYI, it would appear that Bobcat has extended the free cab enclosure with HVAC through the end of October 2005.