Not sold in any stores...

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( so I'm getting a wheelchair tie-down rig and a portable ramp for the Windstar )</font>

Don, I sure hope you've done your research and know what you're getting and how well it'll work. I had visions of doing just what you're talking about when we bought our Windstar, since both my and my wife's mothers are in wheelchairs. You may already know what I'm going to tell you, and if so, feel free to ignore it, but . . .

I've used both Windstar and Chrysler minivans equipped for wheelchair use; fold out ramps, tie downs, etc. And they have all been extensively modified by lowering the floor. Otherwise, the distance between the floor and the roof is inadequate for a person to sit upright in the wheelchair.

I've also had some experience with full size vans, both with and without powered wheelchair lifts. On those, instead of lowering the floor, they raise the roof. Otherwise, they have the same insufficient distance between the floor and the roof for a person to sit upright in the wheelchair.

The modifications to either full size or mini-van run in the neighborhood of $15k new. Now if you have a good, cheap way to manage a person in a wheelchair with a Windstar, I'd sure appreciate the information.

 

[SnowRidge]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( A look under the hood will show Bosch instead of Lucas - the latter being the company that kept all those older Jag, MG, Triumph, Morris, and Land Rover users with greasy palms and empty wallets. )</font>

Ahhh, Lucas, the Prince of Darkness. "Fails reliably at sunset," wasn't that the motto?

I once owned a TVR that had--I swear--headlights that would go out every time I drive through a certain tunnel.

Think I'll stick with my U.S. built Toyota.

SnowRidge

 

[California]

re. econo hatchbacks, I wish someone would make another edition of the 1980 Chevy Citation except this time with modern car reliability.

I bought one new and loved the configuration, a huge hatchback that got 36 mpg in the slow lane or 32 - 34 in the fast lane. I think I only had a couple of tanks under 30 mpg in three years.

Acceleration was excellent with the 4 speed. It didn't trade performance for economy, they did it by reducing weight without reducing outside dimensions. In concept it was the ideal American economy car.

However - It seemed they got the worst of Lucas, Yugo, and Trabant engineers to modify the off-the-shelf GM components it was assembled from. My new Citation was all worn out by 36 k miles. Every critical component had exhausted its useful life - suspension, engine, clutch, A/C, everything. If they had gotten that car right GM could have owned the economy car market for a while. I'll never buy another GM car after that experience.

 

[TresCrows]

"Let's face it. It's called GREED. The oil companies payoff the auto industry which pays off the politicians to keep the mileage regs. low on gas. As far as safety regulations go"

That is simply not true. You watch the liberal left bent press to much and you are accepting a cliche that really is not true. There is dishonesty everywhere and there are also a bunch of honest companies. I was once pretty dang high up in a well known oil company and trust me, they spent tons of money drilling wells and exploring for oil and their profit to investment ratio was lower--LOWER-- than that which is considered good. The idea that oil companies widely payoff the car companies and the goverment is simply a LIE. Do not believe this foolishness. No one ever paid me not to find oil and no one ever asked me to give anyone a bribe. The EPA regulations and many other things make it very diffucult and extremely expensive to drill domestic. If the oil companies were paying off the governement why would this be the case. Don't answer because I am not interested in fabrications and legend. There are no alchemy equations for turning water into gasoline either or any such foolishness as that. The"oil" companies make more money in the end if their product distribution system remains in place. That is why most oil companies actually have a policy of conservation for the future--you won't believe me though--even though I was there and made such decisions. It is not so much altruism, it is the bottom line is better.
As to this thread--smaller cars---this is exactly what I have been talking about. None of the car companies build small vehicles anymore. I understand building big but some of the stuff on the road today has gone beyond function and is simply big for the sake of being big /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif. I want a new truck like my old Toyota but with a quad cab or extended cab and a supercharged 4 cylinder diesel. If the engine were heavy duty it could tow reasonable loads for that size machine and still get super fuel mileage. Modern airbags and all that would improve safety. There is hardly a single car/truck out there anywhere that I have the slightest interest in owning including the ones I have /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. The Corolla Matrix gets pretty good MPG and is darn fast and can be gotten with AWD. I kinda like them. This new Kappa Pontiac Solstice has promise. As to Toyota trucks, they are getting so big I am loosing interest fast.
Darn if some nut got on the highway last night going the wrong way--almost hit me /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif--very close. J

 

[slowrev]

Tres,
Maybe the Gas companies do not pay off the car companies now but in the past they have banded together to buy up mass transit systems to shut them down so that people would buy auto's gas, oil, and tires. This was in the early days of auto's. LA's traffic might not be nearly so bad if the conglomerates had not bought up the streetcar companies many years ago and shut them down.

 

[TresCrows]

"Couldn't own a Chevrolet -- or any GM car. Just can't. Don't matter who actually made it. Not in my lifetime. Never again. "

Sorry for a second post. Don, I am there with you. You would be amazed at how many people are like us. I would not buy a GM car if they gave it to me. Ford or Dodge or anyone else, yes, GM no--NEVER. There are lot's of us. Maybe not here in TBN land but out there in the real world, we are not alone. I don't buy GM--period. Oh, and I do kinda like that BMW made Mini Cooper S. I also like the old Renault R5 Rally Sports with the twin engines, the Porche 914, the Fiat X-1/9, the Triumph TR6, Datsun B210, BMW 20002, Datsun 240Z and of course the original flavor Toyota/Datsun mini trucks and mini SUVs (before there was such a thing) such as the original 4Runner with removable top. I like bright colors too, I am tired of Toyota and everyone else's drab earth tones and muted colors. I also kinda like the Toyota Spyder of current make. J

 

[AndyM]

<font color="blue"> Couldn't own a Chevrolet -- or any GM car. Just can't. Don't matter who actually made it. Not in my lifetime. Never again. </font>

I feel about the same way. After owning a string of cars (mostly Ford products), I've owned only three GM products. Two of them were $50 each and I was under 18 years old and the diesel Chevette that I sold last year (which was actually a pretty good car).

I like the looks of the Chevrolet Aveo, but there's three things that turn me off about the car--
1) It's a Chevrolet
2) It's made by Daewoo (It think Kia is the more reliable Korean manufacturer, followed by Hyundai)
3) Despite its small size, it's rated at 27 city and 35 highway.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but shouldn't a car this small do better than that? The technology has got to be there somewhere for a car this small to get over 40 MPG...

 

[Junkman]

Is this sporty enough for you???? Don't know how the wife will like it???? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[OkeeDon]

<font color="blue"> Don, I sure hope you've done your research and know what you're getting and how well it'll work...Now if you have a good, cheap way to manage a person in a wheelchair with a Windstar, I'd sure appreciate the information. </font>

My wife raised the same question, today. When I get home tonight, I'll measure the door opening and the wheel chair. Grandma is very old (100 in August) and kind of slumps in the wheel chair, so she doesn't need as much room as some. I know the chair will fit, because I put it in their after folding it, back when we could still swing her up (with her assistance) into the front seat. But, she's weaker now, and can't help, and we're older now, and can't manage her without both of us pushing and pulling.


We're consulting with two sources - a local company that converts and supplies the handicap vans you described with the raised roofs or lowered floors, and a medical equipment supply company that my wife uses in her work. Both assure us that the system will work. It's a simple system; L tracks bolted to the floor, 4 crash-tested straps to anchor the chair, a lapbelt that fastens to the rear floor straps, and a shoulder harness that fastens to the lapbelt and to a stock shoulder belt fastener. Available on the internet for less than $400, installed by the specialist company for $600. We plan to use a portable, folding ramp that is on the 'net for $300, from the specialist company for under $600, and I'll get the price from the medical supply company from my wife when I get home tonight (she gets a discount).

Grandma doesn't get out much, any longer (we went to my duaghter's high school Spring band concert last night without Grandma for the first time), and, after all, she is going to be 100 years old -- we figure we'll only need it for 10 or 15 years /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif, so we don't plan to spend serious money. Either this will work or she won't get out at all unless there's 3 people to get her in the car.

I'll let you know how the measurements work out.

 

[paulss]

If anyone is interested in a BIG vehicle w/great mileage, I rode in a Dodge Sprinter last week and was very impressed. This is the same vehicle that UPS has started to use recently and comes in 3 whelbases (118" - 158") and has 3 different roof heights available. It has a 5 cylinder turbocharged Mercedes that gives decent performance and, according to the owner, gets 27-29mpg on the highway and 20-21 around town. It wasn't noisy and handled much better than the normal full-sized van.

 

[JimR]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Couldn't own a Chevrolet -- or any GM car. Just can't. Don't matter who actually made it. Not in my lifetime. Never again.

I'd buy a Chevy over any Ford or Chrysler product of the same equivalant. I have had nothing but good luck with my last 3 S-10's. My Chevy days go back to my 56 with 165K on it when I sold it. My friend owns a 2002 GMC quad cab 4x4 with the Dynamax diesel. He said it makes his old Ford F350 quad cab 4x4 look like a POS. He will never buy another Ford. He also has traded in his wife's Durango. The tranny crapped out right after the warranty expired. The dealer would not fix it under warranty. He put in a rebuilt tranny and just traded it in for a GMC Envoy.
To each their own. Everyone likes one kind of vehicle or another for whatever reason. I've owned Ford's, Datsuns, Hondas, Olds, BMW's, and an Acura. We are now sticking with Chevy's and Honda/Acura products.

 

[OkeeDon]

Bird, looks like we may luck out -- but just barely. Grandma has 3 wheel chairs -- a travel chair, a new one with removable arms, and an older one. The older one has a seat about 21" high; the other two are 19" high. The newer one, with the lower seat, is the one that she's most comfortable in. The top of the handles is at 36", and sitting as straight as she can. she rises another 11", or 47". The interior of the Windstar, at the lowest point of the roof, is 48". If she was still using the older chair, she wouldn't clear.

There is a minor problem, in that the door opening, at the lowest point, is 45". If she tilts her head a bit, or we tip the wheelchair back a bit after the wheels are inside and solidly on the floor (they go in before her head), she'll clear. She's still alert enough to cooperate. The strap retainers fasten to L brackets outside the wheelbase of the chair; it will sit on the floor without being raised.

I'm quite capable of installing the brackets, but I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea of deciding where they should go, so we're going with the professional installation for $600. On the other hand, there's no trick to the Tri-fold ramp, so we're ordering that from discountramps.com for less than $300.

I discovered one interesting fact. We have the dual sliding doors, left and right. The left (driver's) side door only opens to a clear width of a little less than 27". The right side door opens to a full clear width of a bit more than 30", so we can use a standard 30" wide portable ramp on that side. That's the curb side, so it would be the best choice in most cases, anyway.

Overall, we lucked out. I sat in the chair and measured the clearance I would need, and I would have to have 54" clearance with my head rubbing the roof, and there's only 48". Give me the same one inch we're going to give Grandma, and the roof would have to be raised 7" to accommodate me. That would have to increase to 9" if I used the taller chair, which would be more comfortable for me. I'm a not-exceptional smidgen under 6' tall.

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( looks like we may luck out -- but just barely )</font>

I'm glad for you, and you've obviously done your homework. Unfortunately, we had no such luck.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Paulss . . . I just bought a Sprinter for work. A very nice van indeed and fuel mileage seems to be as good as they claim.

HERE IS AN INTERESTING ARTICL ABOUT GAS I JUST FOUND:

Inflated Gas Prices a Result of Bigger Cars

MAY 17, 2004 -- NEW YORK -- In past years, when gasoline prices shot up, Americans could find convenient scapegoats: manipulation by OPEC, wartime market jitters, price gouging by oil companies. But as gas prices set a new U.S. record, an average of $1.95 a gallon for regular unleaded, consumers can't duck some of the blame, according to USA Today.

Energy analysts say the main reason gas prices are 45 cents per gallon higher than a year ago is that oil supplies can't keep pace with rising demand, up 4.4 percent in the United States in the past year. A chunk of that higher demand is coming from U.S. drivers who have become addicted to cheap gas for their fuel-thirsty SUVs and other vehicles.

While motorists may cringe when they pull into a gas station, prices adjusted for inflation are only about 20 cents per gallon higher than in 1990 and well below the equivalent of nearly $3 in March 1981, according to the U.S. Energy Department. As recently as the late 1990s, inflation-adjusted prices were among the lowest in history.

The fact that gas has been a bargain for so long explains why SUVs account for 25 percent of new sales -- a tenfold increase since 1975 -- and the average vehicle guzzles more gas.

Afterthe trend toward lighter and more fuel-efficient vehicles that lasted for nearly two decades, the average 2004 model now weighs 4,066 pounds -- up 26 percent from 1987, according to a report last month by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Automakers also are meeting consumer demand for more powerful vehicles. They now average 10 seconds to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph vs. 13.1 seconds in 1987, the EPA said.

More weight and power require more fuel. The miles-per-gallon average is down to 20.8, from a high of 22.1 in 1987.

The prospect of higher prices for the foreseeable future is already prompting modest conservation. Sales of the largest SUVs have softened, while demand for fuel-efficient hybrids that run on gasoline and electricity is soaring. Still, the hybrid market accounts for only a tiny fraction of new sales, according to the news source.

History has shown that a shift to more efficient cars doesn't solve the nation's growing demand for oil. Ultimately, only development of an alternative to the gas-powered engine can break U.S. oil dependence. Last month, the Bush administration released the first installment of a five-year, $1.2 billion private research grant to develop a hydrogen car.

 

[Boone]

( I'm curious where all the hydrogen for these fuel cells is supposed to come from? It's not like there is are a lot of 'free' hydrogen atoms out there. Hydrogen likes to bond and breaking that bond is going to cost us energy... where does that come from? )

Why, we burn oil, of course. Or Uranium
=====================================

Not necessary, wind turbines can bust the hydrogen out of water.

 

[TresCrows]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ( I'm curious where all the hydrogen for these fuel cells is supposed to come from? It's not like there is are a lot of 'free' hydrogen atoms out there. Hydrogen likes to bond and breaking that bond is going to cost us energy... where does that come from? )

Why, we burn oil, of course. Or Uranium
=====================================

Not necessary, wind turbines can bust the hydrogen out of water. )</font>

Wind turbines are ugly and an eyesore and an environmental nightmare--ask the Kennedys.

It takes energy to make the hydrogen, the trick is getting a net gain rather than a net loss. They will probably use petroleum to produce hydrogen---oil is a hydrocarbon /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif.

Yeah, messing with splitting and fusing hydrogen is neat isn't --those mushroom clouds sure are purty and the way they make everything glow in the dark is fun at parties. Actually, we could use nuke reactors to provide the energy to produce hydrogen--that is a net gain process, petroleum is a net loss process. J