Northeast Heating Options

[JDGREEN4ME]

We have property on Senecal Lake in NY and want to build a home there. Our heating options are electric, propane, natural gas or oil. Is there any source to check for historical information in regards to cost for each option? Any northeastern tractor guys out there that can share their experiance? Thanks.

 

[Egon]

Perhaps you should add the distance to available services.

 

[450EXC]

Mornin JD,
I don't have a lot of info but I am in the process of starting to research the replacement of my old oil boiler. I like the baseboard heat as oposed to forced air. I also have a old indoor wood boiler in the celler next to the oil boiler which I like.

I have heard that of the few high effiecency oil boilers out there they are not working too good and was recomennded to go with a regular 85-87 % unit and a chiminy. In new construction the cost of a chiminy would pay for the upgrade to propane.

I am leaning towards propane. Propane is more expensive but the higher efficency will bring it closer and less maintenance, cleaner. If you buy your own propane tank you can shop arouind in the summer and get a better price per gallon.

Some of the new indoor wood boilers are fairly efficent but $, around 7,500.00 plus you would still need a backup boiler, oil or propane. The solo combo units are not that efficent.

I still have a lot more research to do. Please forgive my spelling.

EDIT: I missed the natural gas - that is probably better than propane.

Larry

 

[JDGREEN4ME]

Perhaps you should add the distance to available services.

Electric on property, oil and propane are local deliveries. Gas I am not sure about locally.

 

[JDGREEN4ME]

Thanks for the info Larry, let me know how you make out. We are thinking about doing wood/coal etc. for the basement in addition to whatever we select as our main heat source. The other option is the means of heating our hot water. I have read the the instant set ups can save some money over a conventional heater. Currently in the house we have now are hot water is off the oil fired boiler we use for heat. (hot water baseboard).

 

[PineRidge]

We have property on Senecal Lake in NY and want to build a home there. Our heating options are electric, propane, natural gas or oil. Is there any source to check for historical information in regards to cost for each option? Any northeastern tractor guys out there that can share their experiance? Thanks.

I'm an old heating guy and given your options my vote is for propane or natural gas. Personal choice based on cleanliness of the units and ease of serviceability.

 

[SnowRidge]

I like heat pumps. That far north, I would look into a ground source heat pump, especially with oil and gas prices headed skyward.

 

[PineRidge]

SnowRidge I had also thought about Geothermal however it wasn't mentioned on the list of choices.

 

[George2615]

We have property on Senecal Lake in NY and want to build a home there. Our heating options are electric, propane, natural gas or oil. Is there any source to check for historical information in regards to cost for each option? Any northeastern tractor guys out there that can share their experiance? Thanks.

I use fuel oil for heat. Fuel oil has more BTU content than gas. My son lives within 18 miles of me but his place has propane for heat. Houses are similar in size and insulation but his house costs over twice what mine does to heat in winter even though his propane is cheaper than my fuel. I have heated my home for the past 17 years with oil and never used more than 500 gallons per year. My house is a fairly small ranch style of about 1200 sq. ft. son's house is about 1500 sq. ft.
I tried supplemental electric heaters in a previous house and that was about like the cost of heating with propane.
A wood stove is also nice. A friend of mine uses three methods of heating his home. He uses a wood stove when he's home for heat (of course he has 21 acres of free wood), When he leaves then a monitor heater (55,000 BTU's) that runs or kerosene takes over, when temps get real low he has a propane forced air furnace.
If I were to build a new home today in this area I would have an oil fired hot water boiler with hot water baseboard heat. Or a combo hot water boiler unit that burns oil on one side and wood on the other. There are many companies that make multi fuel units.
If you choose gas or fuel, the furnace will required annual service and of course a gas furnace will be easier to clean.

 

[scott_vt]

Mornin JDGreen,
At out Vt cabin we use propane, we own the tank and I am buying it for $2.15 per gal right now. At our Ct home I burn wood no cost other than my labor, and I also use propane but the cost in Ct is $2.95 per gal !!! Obviously I try and keep that stove running constantly during the cold weather !

Depending upon your age, geo thermal as others have mentioned is an option also, a heavy cash layout to begin with but quite economical to run. If you can realize the benifits of this method of heating than research it by all means.

I dont believe if you mentioned how much property you have at that location and or whether it is wooded or not ? Free wood can be quite enticing when it comes to free heat !

 

[kenmac]

We have property on Senecal Lake in NY and want to build a home there. Our heating options are electric, propane, natural gas or oil. Is there any source to check for historical information in regards to cost for each option? Any northeastern tractor guys out there that can share their experiance? Thanks.

You can call each company. they should be able to give you that info

 

[Egon]

If you have the chance and the cost of hooking up is reasonable go for the natural gas with a high efficiency furnace or the high efficiency water heaters or both. Clean, little maintenance other than filters and probably the safest of the lot. Check this out with an insurance company.

At our last house in Alberta we had the high efficiency Lennox furnace and water heater.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

If you have the chance and the cost of hooking up is reasonable go for the natural gas with a high efficiency furnace or the high efficiency water heaters or both. Clean, little maintenance other than filters and probably the safest of the lot. Check this out with an insurance company.

At our last house in Alberta we had the high efficiency Lennox furnace and water heater.

What was the efficiency rating of the water heater compared to the furnace? Around here the water heaters can't get as efficient as the boilers which is why I put a BoilerMate in my house. It is just an extra zone off the boiler and is a great unit. Plus the boiler mate keeps the boiler running year round which is suppose to be better for them according to our plumbing supply guys. And the BoilerMate has a lifetime warranty.

As for the OP's question, I prefer natural gas for heat. I don't have to worry about my tank levels or have to bring wood in during the cold winters. Plus there is no tank sitting in the yard.

One of the best things I did was put a programable thermostat in my house as well as insulate the heck out of it while we were remodeling. Building from scratch just go all out on efficiency and energy saving items as you go.

 

[dmccarty]

And don't forget solar. When we built the house we wanted to have radiant floor heating based on solar water heaters on the roof. To provide our dometic hot water use as well has a good bit of out house heat was going to be 7-10K. Given we had to have a heat pump for air conditioning and our heat needs where not that great we dropped the solar water heating.

With 20/20 vision I think we could have cut back on the solar heating system quite a bit since the wood stove does heat the house and its all we use. The solar would be a nice supplement. Up your way you might need all of the heat help you can get.

NCSU has a Solar Center with some great information.

Since you are planning the house, try to site it so that it gathers as much winter sun from the south as you possibly can. Passive Solar design is not hard, can get you tax credits, AND helps lower you energy costs. Our house is not a perfect Passive Solar design. I put in too many large windows, aka holes in the wall, on the north, east and west sides of the house. This was done to get maximum wind during spring, summer and fall as well as for the view. We would be warmer in the winter but the wood stove is keeping us warm enough. We could have gotten tax credits if I had deleted some of the windows. Its really a flaw in thinking about energy efficiency. The current tax incentives are focused on heating not cooling which is a mistake. It should be both.

Our winter power bills are around $100 a month. Summer can peak at $180ish. Last month was $75. Our summer power requirements are much higher than winter but the tax code goes after heating not cooling. Anywho.

Building is a compromise.

But Passive Solar can be done at some level and it does work though it might not qualify for tax credits. The rooms on the south side of our house are 5 degrees warmer than rooms on the north.

Some states, and for the time being, the Feds are giving tax credits for solar installations. Don't leave this out as an option.

Later,
Dan

 

[SnowRidge]

SnowRidge I had also thought about Geothermal however it wasn't mentioned on the list of choices.

And that hasn't stopped me yet.


I should add that I don't like propane, especially for a house with a basement. Propane is heavier than air, which makes it more dangerous than natural gas. When I lived in Maryland, it seemed like we were always getting news reports of propane heated houses blowing up. Around here, most propane heaters are outdoor "gas packs," with only the duct work going inside, which isn't as dangerous as having propane lines in the house.

I have also seen the result of a mountain top propane powered communications site going up. The regulator froze up one winter and dumped high pressure gas inside, and it ignited. A neighbor down the mountain said it looked like a 300 foot roman candle going off.

We had propane in our current house. I got rid of it and put an air source heat pump in. It cut our heating bills in half.

 

[Sigarms]

One thought, duel fuel.

Go with a 13 SEER R410A Heat pump and use a oil or LP/Gas furnace for back up heat. Best of both worlds, and you'll cut your fossile fuel usage substantially.

OR, go with a heat pump (R410A) and use a wood or pellet stove for back up heat (you'll be able to run the fan from the heat pump to circulate the hot air produced from the back up stove unit).

Under 20 degrees, you'll be running your second heating choice. Something to keep in mind if you go with a heat pump.

Word on the block is the tax credit will be gone for next year.

 

[Egon]

I can't remember the efficiency of the hot water heater Robert. As it was an air furnace there was no option.

 

[hazmat]

Over time energy cost equalize - a btu is a btu and a kw-h is a kw-h and a kwh = 3,414 btus, the market reflects that. Sure at any given moment, suppy & demand for a particular type - oil, propane, nat gas will fluctuate driving the price up or down relative to the other products.

If I were building a new house & had expectations of being there a long time and/or handing it down to my kids, I'd go with the most efficient method of heating/cooling it which is hands down geothermal (ground source heat pump). Couple it with solar electric panels (highly subsidised by NYS right now) & you have a "green" solution (and potentially no electric bill).

The more effecient the home design is (insulation passive solar etc.) the smaller the system can be (and cheaper).

Solar space heating presents problems as you have to disable the system in the summer or shunt the heat to ground somehow (heat a pool perhaps?).

 

[dmccarty]

Solar space heating presents problems as you have to disable the system in the summer or shunt the heat to ground somehow (heat a pool perhaps?).

In the summer an active solar heating system is turned off. I suppose a pool could be heated if the pipes here plumbed that way and ye had a pool.

To keep the house from gaining heat during the summer, we have 28 inch roof overhangs. There are sources on how to figure our the roof overhang but its a function of your house location and placement of windows in the wall. The sun goes lower in the sky during the winter which allows the energy into the house. During the summer the sun is higher in the sky and the overhangs block the sun from entering the house. Its kinda fun to watch.

Later,
Dan

 

[Rara Avis]

I heat with oil, supplemented with wood stove, but if I had access to Natural Gas...that would be my choice, guaranteed delivery...