non-kubota filters

msg · Mar 22, 2001

i haven't been around for a while so bear with me. my L-3600 just came up on 50 hrs. i decided to change the oil and filter and did not have a filter from kubota but i did have a pf-43 fram. (cross over). how much trouble am i in. i did find a wix and baldwin cross for the trans but not a fram. any insight???

DavidH · Mar 22, 2001

People I respect say the WIX filters are as good or better than the Kubota filters. They are definitely cheaper. I will use Kubota filters in my 3710 until the warranty is up, and then I'm going with WIX.

DaveH

JonSpinosa · Mar 22, 2001

Fram is one of the worst filters on the market. I would highly recommend WIX as equivalent or better than the Kubota filters. If you want to purchase WIX filters, I can sell them on a great discount by a case full. Just let me know your Kubota part number or machine model.

gsxr1100 · Mar 23, 2001

DavidH- Just because of warrenty means nothing. You can use whatever filters you want. Also yes Fram do perform poorly. Best oil filters are, by info I am seen are:

Baldwin
Amsoil
Fleetguard
Mobil
Hastings
Wix
Ac Delco

Thanks
Mike

msg · Mar 23, 2001

guess i'll go with baldwin or wix next time around,thanks for all the help. i do have a local dealer but he is inconvienant and expensive and arrogant(salesman)!!!!

mark g , austin,tx
L-3600gst-680 loader 58hrs
58 jd-620-se6 rhino bushhog

DavidH · Mar 23, 2001

burnickas: Thanks for the info, I just assumed that I needed to use the Kubota filters during the warranty period. I was really irritated when I had to pay $70 for two hydraulic filters. Now I still have to decide if I go with the UDT or super UDT next change. The book says super UDT, but the dealer said that most people are using the UDT in the warmer climates with no problems.

DaveH

DavidH · Mar 23, 2001

JonSpinosa: I'd be interested in getting filters for my 3710 from you. Also, do you carry filters for a 1997 F250 diesel? You can email me or I'll catch you later in the forum. Thanks.

DaveH

Anonymous Poster · Mar 24, 2001

You don't have to use a mfr. filter for warranty purposes. It's against the law for a mfr. to force you to use their name brand filters under the warranty period.

I believe it's the "Robinson-Patman Act" that enforces this.

Anonymous Poster · Mar 24, 2001

Disregard my reference to the "Robinson-Patman" Act... that's for pricing issues. I will follow-up, and give the correct Federal act.

TraderMark · Mar 25, 2001

I can't prove this with documentation yet, but I've been told for most of my life as a mechanic that there are only 4 filter manufacturers in North America. All filters, no matter what name is on them come from one of these 4 manufacturers.

I do know for fact however that NAPA and WIX are both made by the Gard Corporation in Gastonia, NC. The numbers of Wix and NAPA filters even correspond to each other.
The filter for my diesel pickup is a 1734 NAPA or a 51734 WIX.
To get the NAPA # from the WIX # just drop the first # from the WIX.

art · Mar 26, 2001

Going back over the past 35 years in the repair buisness on cars initially then to aircraft and then just a hobby with cars and a life of tractors this is what I've learned right or wrong with your beliefs. I also know that many of you will never run your equipment to full oil changes nor work it like some of my customers might. I do have customers that are no different than you as far as use and manitance. Price is not a issue here just quality. Wix, Napa has had more filters that will void a warrantee if used than anyother company I know; most recent the 5.9liter cummins/case engine oil filters. Filters are spec'ed for the engine by the manufacturer. Some have higher and lower bypass modes some use denser filter paper and some don't use as good of paper. There are many that the folds in the paper are very inconsisitant causing high oil travel in spot areas and other areas that filter no oil. Many of the better filters and again as to the design as to location of mounting have anti-drain back valves built into them. My favorite after-market filter is fleet guard as I believe they currently build more manufacturer's filter than anyone. That still doesn't mean thay can build to the manufacturers specs to market under there name. Case-IH is just starting a 10,000 hour warrantee on engine and drive line for ten years on there tractors! Yes they can say you have to run there oil and there filters if you want that warrantee. It's very hard for you folks sitting on the edge of this industry to know what does really make things tick, many dealers sit in the middle of it and we still make mistakes. After-market is after-market period, it just isn't the same.

TWINKLE_TOES · Mar 26, 2001

Art,

Thanks for taking the time to post your view. I have some Kubota training tapes, one of which is "Air Elements, by Donaldson". Donaldson is the Kubota air filter supplier and claims 90% of the commercial "off road" market.
The tape illuminates the difficulty associated with filter design for three cylinder diesel engines. I don't think I will be looking for after market air filters anytime soon.

Do you know if Donaldson markets oil and hydraulic filters for Kubota's or who does?

I looked over their website but didn't find anything.
http://www.donaldson.com/products/

art · Mar 26, 2001

Twinkle toes I do believe that it still is Donaldson who is making there filters. It just seems strange we send out filters to many different areas of the country and for some one to spend ten too twenty thousand dollars for a piece of equipment and then to look to save a couple of dollars on the quality of oil and filters the life blood of that machine baffles me!

JonSpinosa · Mar 26, 2001

Art,
What baffles me is that you never get the same Kubota filter twice in a row from a dealer!!! Why???? Also, why are different dealers pushing different filter part numbers for the same applicaton? I know the difference between the (o) designated filters which are Japanese and the (e) filters which are the economy filters manufactured in the USA; so I can explain that difference, but I am seeing all the variations with the (e) filters. It is so bad, that I think the whole Kubota filter push is a gimmick.

I am real skeptical about all these different part numbers for the same application. If it is so important to buy Kubota, then why isn't their more consistency with the parts numbers. I can not and will not believe that all those different filter part numbers were designed for my applicaton!!!!! It sounds like substitution or close enough to me!!!!!

Art, I bought that new ZD21 the other day from ED. You guys are all right! However, I think you are a little high on that trade-in of my 54" mower deck!

Thanks...
Jon S.

Anonymous Poster · Mar 26, 2001

The Kubota (presumably) filter that came on my L35 was different then the "Kubota" ones I purchased the same time. No part number on the one on the tractor, different color (no biggie), at least the sealing design was different.

I don't paying for a higher quality product, it does make sense most of the time. You just hate to think you're being played with by the marketing types.

I would think it would be a definite no no to use some engine oil filter (even if it screws on) to replace the hydraulic. Seems I read somewhere that the filtering requirements are much more severe on the hydraulic system. (Not to mention the problems if there is full pressure in the filter /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

del

art · Mar 27, 2001

Jon, the difference in the O and E is the is the O is original equipment and the E is for economy. I'll keep it that most dealers want to be what there customers want, a place that is not taking advantage of them. To offer the E filters helps keep the price down for the customer. We do stock some of the E's but not all. On the other side of the questions here Kubota has changed some part numbers of there filters and it might be that the dealer is still changing from the old to the new stock. It is hard to tell the efficiency of a filter by looking at it. You can cut them apart to take a closer look, we do have some already cut open and what you find is interesting. To say that the manufactuer's filter are perfect I can't say that either. We have a filter cut open here that if the filter bypass could open that it was sealed with a cork gasket! that would be good going thru the engine. While playing with one of our tractor pullers we started out with 350hp on the dyno and after changing the fuel filter we lost 200hp. Ten minutes later we were back up to where we were.

Anonymous Poster · Jul 4, 2002

Just read your note about WIX filters for Kubotas.I have a T1760 riding mower w/48" blade and a Kawasaki
2 cyl. engine. Since its not a big item I can't find any crossovers here. Just in case you have something I would like any prices you have in air & oil filters.
Thanks
Lawrence White in Raleigh
weiss123@bellsouth.net

DarinRay · Jul 4, 2002

Re: non-kubota filters (Del...????)

Where has Del been? Anyone know.

Darin

wichiwichi · Jul 5, 2002

What is the problem wth Fram filters. I have been using them for years with no problem.

Anonymous Poster · Jul 6, 2002

I agree with Art. In the motorsports industry I have learned that even products with the same brand name can be manufactured to different tolerances. For example, you can order a Dunlop tire from Parts Unlimited much cheaper than the same Dunlop model tire from Yamaha. This is because Yamaha specifies a tighter tolerance on their tires. I have seen up to 5hp difference between stock and aftermarket air filters on dyno runs on a banshee (in favor of the stock filter). I have noticed also that Fram uses one filter for three different models of motorcycle. Those three models each use a different filter from Yamaha.
I really rubs me the wrong way when I hear people say "they are all the same because they are all made by the same manufacturer". Yes, the same company may be producing several different brand names of filters, but they are not the same quality.