No Go with Glow Plugs

[TheSheriff]

An ammeter would have been nice in my case... I had read posts here about checking the ammeter to verify current to the GP's. If I had one, I would have known months ago that I misunderstood my dealers instructions regarding the heat position of my ignition and I was not using the GP's.

The indicator light is a good idea, but now that I've seen the light , I think I have a good feel for the ignition's sweet spot.

 

[greg_g]

An ammeter would have been nice in my case...

I'd still recommend installing one, it's neither expensive nor difficult. Besides giving you a charging system health indicator, it can also serve to extend the life of the entire starting system. When GPs don't have to glow as long - and starters don't have to crank as long - they simply don't wear out as fast.

Given that resistance varies with temperature, the ammeter can actually "tell" you when the GPs are hot enough to start the engine. Obviously you know that - the colder it gets - the longer you have to heat the GPs. This is reflected in that - the colder the day - the more amps will be pulled by the GP system. But as they heat, the resistance changes - a change which is reflected by the ammeter. The hotter the GPs get, the fewer amps they'll pull.

Here's how I did it when the tractors were new. I'd put the keyswitch over to the HEAT position and eyeball the ammeter. The 20 second rule still applies, so I'd start counting. If the ammeter dropped to 14-15 amps before I got to 20, I'd turn the key to START. If they weren't down to 14-15 amps yet, I'd still hit START at the count of 20 - not expecting the engine to actually start the first time. But I'd do it with the compression releasee open. That helps in getting the oil pressure up quickly. Wait 15 seconds, turn to HEAT again. The second time usually did it, very seldom did I have to go through the cycle a 3rd time.

That said, it wasn't long before I installed a full cold start kit. But unless/until you actually HAVE an ammeter (or a cold start kit), you gotta go by the old by-guess-and-by-gosh method.

//greg//

 

[TheSheriff]

Thanks Greg, good information. You mentioned a benefit I hadn't considered. I'll add ammeter to my list!

 

[greg_g]

Did they get another pay raise? It was only last year wasn't it, that their minimum wage was raised to 62 cents/hour (?). But yeah, it's sounding like keyswitch time at the budman's house. Understand though - if you go the Ford route - you're swapping a 4 post switch for a 5 post. So if you run into a snag, we're here to help. But don't forget that there's a clutch interlock switch under the left floorboard. The usual problem down there results in a blown system fuse. But sometimes a wire can come loose without actually shorting out the fuse.

//greg//

 

[erj]

The battery is on a trickle charge every month, so it's not a battery issue. Although I'm not an expert, I assume after all that has been discussed that the ignition switch it shot. I am looking into ordering a Ford cold start switch and will swap it out. Wish me luck.

QUOTE]

Have you checked the Interrupt Switch under the floorboards that is engaged by the clutch pedal?
RonJ

 

[greg_g]

The problem is not with the workers, it's with the engineers and designers and the people that dictate to them - management. They really could do a better job and turn out a superior product, but that's going to take more capital investment and take more time. It's like Japanese products all over again...When the UAW organizes the assembly plants you will see some top notch equipment

I'm afraid you're going to find that the majority opinion is that unions are what nearly killed America's auto industry. I for one will never buy another GM or Chrysler product, no matter what kind of "top notch" equipment the UAW lavishes upon themselves. Here's a question that I'll bet never comes up in union meetings. Given that "workers of the world, unite" comes straight out of the communist manifest, how come there are no unions in communist/socialist countries?

But that has nothing to do with Chinese tractors. Short of the cultural aspect, the shortcomings we see in Chinese tractors is not a management problem either. At least that's what non-union observers will conclude. The fault is with the buyers. The Chinese factories will make anything you ask for - to the specs you lay down. If you want a failsafe heart-lung machine, they'll make a failsafe heart-lung machine. If you want a cheap tractor, they'll build a cheap tractor.

The bottom line is no different than with any other manufacturing concern - anywhere in the world. You can't blame management, you can't fix it with unions. It's no more complicated than "you get what you pay for".

//greg//

 

[Bob Rooks]

You're right Greg, I won't buy another GM or Chrysler product again either.
It is incumbent upon management to insure the survivability of their companies.

Greg wrote:
how come there are no unions in communist/socialist countries?

They don't like the competition. :laughing:

 

[thebudman]

Have you checked the Interrupt Switch under the floorboards that is engaged by the clutch pedal?
RonJ

There is no loose wire that I can see. Is there any way to check the switch itself? I ordered a new ignition switch, and it should be here by Friday, at which time I'll swap it out with the old switch.

However, if I replace the starter switch and the tractor is still a no-go, what could I do to check the clutch safety switch? Do those things wear out as well? Maybe a good spritzing of WD-40? The tractor is garaged, and hasn't had any water/snow on it the last times I've had it out, so I doubt it's water-intrusion shorting out the switch.

Again, what's up with the Chinese and their lack of quality? I can see why their coal mines are always exploding or caving in. It's little wonder why they use/used Soviet-made equipment.

 

[greg_g]

However, if I replace the starter switch and the tractor is still a no-go, what could I do to check the clutch safety switch?

Like most switches on these tractors, they're crap too. But more often than not they fail cuz they get crushed by the clutch pedal. And probably at least 2/3 of those instances result in a dead short - which necessarily blows the 30A system fuse. From your description of the problem, your system fuse is ok.

One thing that can happen though, is that the switch breaks free somehow from its bracket - and never gets touched by the clutch pedal. OR - one of the wires comes off a connector post, and hasn't yet shorted against the frame (rare). Unless/until that switch is tripped, no juice gets from the keyswitch to the starter solenoid. Look under the left floorboard, almost touching the clutch arm. If the switch looks to be in place, undamaged, and no loose wires - disconnect it. Tape both wires together temporarily, and try the keyswitch again. If still nothing, then you're right back to a bad keyswitch. But if it cranks, get a new clutch interlock switch.

//greg//

 

[Bob Rooks]

Again, what's up with the Chinese and their lack of quality? I can see why their coal mines are always exploding or caving in. It's little wonder why they use/used Soviet-made equipment.

It's kinda like saying intrusion when you mean incursion, and ignition switch when you really mean key switch (there is no ignition circuit on diesel engines), etc. They like to save money where they can - just like everybody else.:thumbsup:

 

[Diamondpilot]

I agree with these guys but here is what I would do.

First, bypass the clutch safety switch.

If that does not work

Second, check the starter by using a screwdriver from the little lug to the big lug with it in Neutral and see if it starts.

If that does not work

You have a bad starter.

Chris

 

[jonyyuma]

Diamond a very good point, and the old hot wire method of starting most engines.. My Bota has a switch on the transfer hi-low switch too. The screw driver will show that the starter was intact. and waiting on the interlock . jy.

 

[thebudman]

UPDATE: I solved the starting problem! First, I installed a new starter switch, and turned the key. No go. So, I took the advice of bypassing the clutch/interlock safety switch by disconnecting the wires from the switch and connecting the two wires. Walla!!! She fired right up.

However, not all was fixed. In spite of a new switch, and checking all the fuses (which were fine), the glow plugs still won't heat. So, I'm back to square one (well, one and a half--- I have a new starter switch).

And--- is it really worth getting a new clutch/interlock saftey switch? I'm inclined to leave it bypassed. I suppose the risk would be an accidental start while in gear--- not by me, but maybe by a kid fooling around on the machine. Hiding the key would eliminate this however. I figure if the switch fails once, it's gonna do it again.

 

[greg_g]

I figure if the switch fails once, it's gonna do it again.

If there are kids around, you need the interlock. I've had 4 Chinese tractors dating back to the 90s. The switch failed on only one of the 4 in all those years. And the one that failed was the 1st one I owned. It was never positioned correctly when I bought the tractor, and ended up getting mashed by the pedal. Ever since then I repositioned the switch correcting when each subsequent tractor was new, then added it to the preventative maintenance list to be adjusted/tightened as required once a year.

//greg//

 

[Diamondpilot]

I agree to get the safety switch. Kids gravitate towards tractors and its there for a reason. $10 switch is not worth someones life.

Chris

 

[Bob Rooks]

UPDATE:And--- is it really worth getting a new clutch/interlock saftey switch? I'm inclined to leave it bypassed. I suppose the risk would be an accidental start while in gear--- not by me, but maybe by a kid fooling around on the machine. Hiding the key would eliminate this however.

Are you playing cards with Darwin? Why do you suppose newer domestic machines have so many lock-out safety features? If you go to Weekly Reports of Fatalities, Catastrophes, and Other Events you'll find out why. They are only trying to protect us from ourselves, and I appreciate that.
:thumbsup: