NH TNA Vs. JD 5020 series

[BarryinMN]

Those numbers were mine. I won't guess why he quoted what he (the owner) did but I will say the NH and Massey dealers also had very similar pricing quotes.

My local Deere dealer is large with 5 outlets & moves a lot of inventory. What doesn't sell goes to Mexico. My opinion of his parts support is excellent with on the shelf & special orders.

I've seen model 60's to the 300+ hp articulated in the shop, mechanics are knowledgable & answer questions I ask concerning my Deere machines.

I recognize the feature rich content on Deere: hp, active seat, hi flo pumps, etc.

For my needs the extra features are not worth 2 extra Samuel P Chase(s)!

My Zetor dealer sold me with a first & best price & a handshake with "I know what you want on extras" & tenative delivery date!

 

[Robert_in_NY]

You are the first person I heard complain about the Iveco motor (Iveco, not Fiat). The TN motor is bulletproof. I have not heard of anyone having engine or tranny problems on their TN. Around her there are a lot of TN series tractors. Most are F series with the V series making a strong push since NH released them. The TN 95F has the 4cylinder motor that is found in the TL but is in the small F series package. It is a great tractor for doing almost anything you want in a field, vineyard or orchard.

John Deere is second to New holland in this area when it comes to vineyard and small vegeatable farms. The TN and TL are outselling anything in thier class. When you get to larger tractors though, the TS-A is making a very strong push but so far it is still John Deere and Case-IH when you get to the 80pto hp and up. I know of a couple Kubota's in the vineyards, the farmer is not adding anymore and will replace them with either JD or NH machines soon. They have run the Kubota's for a couple years and I do not know if they have had any mechanical problems with them but the operators much prefer the TN and 5000n series tractors they have over the Kubotas (I do not remember the actual model number but I think it is a 5030 size).

There are no other Kubota tractors in the ag industry here that I know of. I see a lot of them in homeowners yards but that is it. As for you comment about the Japs building things that weigh less but last forever, in a lot of ag areas you want the extra weight for traction and being able to handle equipment easier.

I have nothing against Kubota as they make a nice machine. However, they do not make the best in everything. The original poster made up his mind and it almost seems like you are trying to tell him he made a bad decision. There is a reason the TN is selling so well, a lot of people on this board that buy a TN are upgrading from a compact. So far in my own research I have learned that Compact buyers are not brand loyal, some are dealer loyal (which is how it should be). But when these guys get done doing their research they end up getting a TN or 5000 JD. Some get the Kubota just below the M series but very few get the M series. It could be that the Kubota dealers don't want to push the M as hard because they might not make as much or it could be that the M series Kubota is not a clear cut favorite over the other tractors. So far the main complaint I keep hearing about the M series is that it is too light, and the controls are not laid out as well as they could be. With the NH and the JD the complaints are usually about a wire or hose being somewhere that it might get snagged.

To sum it all up, there is not one tractor that comes to my mind as a junk tractor. Nothing on the market today (from the main companies that is) is a garbage tractor. They all make great machines and they will all last a long time. But not everyone is going to buy the same machine. And if we all bought the best tractor on the market we would have bought a Valtra or Fendt (well before Agco bought them both /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif).

 

[jltrent]

Iveco Diesel Engines

Iveco Aifo Gas and Diesel EnginesSince its creation in 1975 Iveco has had the task of continuing the Fiat tradition in the diesel engine field, a tradition that started 90 years ago when the first Fiat diesel engine started to operate.

The success of Iveco engines is based on quality and performance levels. Their versatility is brought to the fore by Iveco by means of conversions to meet the multiple requirements demanded by the final users.

Iveco was set up in 1966 with the task of converting and marketing diesel engines produced by the Fiat group. Hundreds of thousands of Iveco engines meet countless operating needs throughout the world.

PLEASE READ

I am not a liar the TN75 Tractors have a Fiat engine in them I don't care what fancy name they use. Call your local dealer and they will confirm.

For the Kubotas you can easy add all the weight needed for the HP rating, but I have not seen a need to add any weight, but my tractor is 4x4.

Also the M Kubota tractors have not been out very long just give them time it took Honda and Toyota a few years to get to the top in the car business and this year Toyota was voted truck of the year.

I am not knocking the TN tractors I am stating facts and have first hand experience from these tractors for several neighbors that own them and a couple of dealer within 20 miles from where I live and one that will try to sell you the other brands he has over the NH, but maybe there is more profit in them.

This could be a good thing because you can buy an old junk 445 Long tractor real cheap with the 3 cylinder engine and have a lot of parts when you need them. I can go buy Kubota parts and pay three prices compared to what the others cost also. The TN
tractors have the advantage here.

 

[cowboydoc]

<font color="red">For the Kubotas you can easy add all the weight needed for the HP rating, but I have not seen a need to add any weight, but my tractor is 4x4.
</font>

I see this weight issue thrown around alot and really it has nothing to with a tractor being better or worse. In todays market everything is geared to being lighter. Usually the lighter steel is stronger than the heavier steel. Alot of the heavier tractors use alot of cast which is a much weaker metal and that accounts for the increased weight but it's not because the steel in superior in quality.

It's very easy to add or take weight off of a tractor. And to be truly versatile this is important to be able to do. Especially with equipment. You want the right ballast and weight for the jobs you are doing. I'd much rather buy a lighter tractor and have that option instead of being stuck with a heavy tractor all the time.

 

[jltrent]

I currently have a 2000 model JD 5210 C/H/A with 1612 hours and a M6800 2004 model Kubota C/H/A with almost 500 hours. The JD is the same tractor as the 5400, 5310, 5320 and 5325 minus the turbo. Both tractors have their good points, but if I had to pick one today to use over the other it would be orange. I maybe am just a dumb arse odd ball, but my dad put me on a tractor at 9 years old and it was sink or swim because he didn't have time to show me much. Since then I would rather go look at farm equipment as go to the mall.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I knew Fiat owned Iveco, didn't realize that they created Iveco to market their motors. Either way, the Iveco motor in the TN is bullet proof. I have not had to buy any part for the motor and I have not heard of any of the other TN's having motor problems. I am not joking either when I tell you this, since the TN came out in late 1999 to replace the 30 series my dealer has sold well over 100 in just a 25 mile radius. I will ask them tomorrow and see if they have a total figure but it would not surprise me to see upwards of 200 TN's sold out of their dealership overall. They get in a lot of TN's and they don't sit long. When did the M series come out?

I have nothing against Kubota, it is just that the original poster made a decision and is happy and you came in and told him his tractor is not as good as yours and the motor in his is junk. That was not right to say and was completely without fact.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Doc, I understand your point but for my use I would much rather have a heavier tractor to begin with then to have to pay to add weight later. I have not ran into any situations where my TN is too heavy for the work I need it to do. I do find times where I need to load the loader bucket to give the front some bite. I would dispise having to buy extra weight to make my TN effective.

In the TN vs M series weight issue the TN 75A weighs 5290 pounds in FWA open station. The TN75A is 62pto hp 72 Net engine. The M6800 weighs 4610 pounds in the same config and hp. That is a 700 pound difference. I have no doubt that it will cost me a lot of money in ballast to make up the difference in weight. For this size tractor, 700 pounds is a lot of weight to give up and be effective in the field.

New Holland TN

Kubota M series

 

[cowboydoc]

All things being equal I'd still take the lighter tractor, especially for jobs like haying or mowing grass. There are many hot, humid days I'd love to be in air conditioned cab but I use the little 4600 or the Gator to do a job rather than the heavier cab tractors. The whole key is less compaction. Adding weight is cheap. I see your point just two different approaches to it. All depends on what works best for your situation. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[jltrent]

Robert I am glad you love your tractor and hope you stay this way.

If you knew the TN tractors had Iveco engines in them that were made by Fiat why at first didn't you agree with me and go on instead of trying to make me look untrueful. That would have been my last post then and there.

Fiat maybe the best engine ever made, but it sure turned my stomach when NH bought out Ford and changed engines in these small tractors. I had plans to buy another one, but from my past experience I had to go a different direction.

If these TN tractors still had the old Ford 201 cu. in. engine in them you can bet the last two tractor I have bought would not have been a Deere and Bota.

Around where I live a lot of NH's are sold, but I believe MF and Deeres sell more. They recently put Kubota dealerships all around where I live and they are catching on quickly. The MF dealer sells Botas and they are all smiles so far with the lack of problems and the increasing sales. I have noticed a lot of the MFs he has set on his lot a lot longer and I see a lot of Botas on his truck for delivery.

The weight issue is a dead horse as far as I am concerned. How many people use the full weight of their tractor many times and if they do this they need a bigger tractor. Also I had the option of getting the cast rims behind on the Bota which I think added 400 pounds, but decided not to. The NH dealer right up the road from me sells off brand weights for any tractor for about a third of the price of the factory weights and if I need more weight for 37 cents a pound plus shipping I will get it. In my opinion cast iron is cast iron.

 

[RedDog]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Doc, I understand your point but for my use I would much rather have a heavier tractor to begin with then to have to pay to add weight later. I have not ran into any situations where my TN is too heavy. I would dispise having to buy extra weight to make my TN effective. )</font>


I agree with you Robert.

This has turned into an interesting article!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The orginal poster has done his homework and wants the New Holland,,,, nothing wrong with that. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I would like to see some prices that one poster said were high on several models. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

RedDog

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Doc, you are right to an extent about wanting a light tractor for certain haying jobs. That is why I use the 640. But if I get the Kuhn rake I want then I will need the hp of the TN but the advantage is that I reduce the number of trips across the field by raking two rows at once. When I use the TN for haying I drop the loader to reduce weight and so far I have not had any issues. My biggest issue is that the TN does not weigh enough for some of the hills I have worked on. Also, I think my baler compacts the ground a lot more then the tractor pulling it as does a full hay wagon.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I knew NH owned Iveco, I thought I admitted in my follow up that I did not know Fiat created Iveco to market their motors. Iveco has a great reputation around here and in Europe. I had thought that Fiat had acquired Iveco much like Agco just aquired Valtra for the Sisu motor.

I can tell from your post that you do not have anything against the TN except the motor. Why do you dislike the motor in the TN when you have not heard of any problems with the TN motors. I have friends who have the same motor in the TNF and put over 1000 hours on it a year with no problems. The TN motor and tranny is bullet proof and the reports on here as well as the garages should be proof enough. You never hear anyone say they are having a problem with the motor on their TN. It is usually a loose fitting or a wire got knocked off by a stick and it is the electrical that causes most problems on these newer tractors.

Comparing the TN to the 30 series is understandable. I had the choice to buy a 3930 or a TN65. The TN was so much better then the 30 series as far as operator comfort, layout and service. The TN is easy to work on and the loader comes off quick and easy. The 3930 is a great tractor but was dated and was long overdue to be replaced. I grew up on tractors and all my experience is on Fords and Masseys. The only JD's I have now are two JD-M's and an H. I have run Fords since I was 12 and a couple Masseys since I first learned how to run a tractor (don't remember how old I was then).

If I did not buy my TN I would most likely have bought a JD. When I was looking in early 2000 for a tractor to replace the Ford 4000 I talked to all the dealers. My MF/Kubota dealer wanted to sell me a 231s and could care less that it did not meet my needs. Agco Allis was a joke and was $5k more then NH. Case-IH was the same price as the AA. JD was $1400 more then the NH and 20 miles further away. I love my TN but I am not loyal to any one brand. I live two miles from my NH dealer. I have a great relationship with them now and will continue to deal with them. But I am seriously considering buying a Valtra if they give me a good price. So far the TS-A is about $3k less then the comparable Valtra.

My main work for the TN is haying, it is underpowered and undersized for my baler but I had the TN before the baler. The TN was bought to do our field work and we use every hp that it has. We pull a 3-16 plow and a 12' Int. transport behind it. We plant with an IH 56 4row corn planter. Weight is a big issue with us, compaction is not as a bigger tractor will weigh more and unless we get flotation tires it will not change the psi much put down by the tires. I need all the weight I can get to handle the disc, if the conditions are too bad I use our 10 footer. I will not baby this tractor which is why I took offense to your post about the motor being junk. Hope this clears things up some. Take care and enjoy the evening.

 

[jltrent]

Robert is sounds to me like you just need a bigger tractor. A 12' disc and 3-16" plows sounds like a load for your tractor. I have 3-18" non stop Ford plows(It has the big springs to trip itself back), but I use my MF 285 to pull it (82HP). Also what balor do you have? I have a 5x5 Vermeer balor and 62 PTO HP handles it well even on rolling land.
I have heard that some of the larger fixed chamber balors need extra power.
Also about three years ago I bought an 18 feet wheel rake made by M & W and it cut my hay raking time in half. It has ten big wheels that once they touch the ground pull themself and makes a windrow going the same direction. I sold the 256 NH rake, after using this one it wasn't worth the shed space it was taking up.
I got the M & W rake for $2400 dollars at the Valtra Valmet dealer and it has already paid for itself with the extra saving over the single NH rake. The dealer has been selling the Valmet tractors for several years now and they look to be a fine tractor, but it seem they are a hard sell around here.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I do need a larger tractor. I am looking at the TS-125A to take over the main tractor duties. The TN will handle the 3-16's fine unless the fields are wet. I am trying to get a 100pto hp tractor and have been looking at NH and Valtra because of my relations with the dealers. I need a larger plow and a 5 bottom will suit me quite well. I was looking at a Salford but it sold before I even had a tractor lined up to pull it. I am hoping to get a larger tractor to complement the TN this summer.

My baler is a NH 575 w/ 72 thrower. This is a big baler for my tractor and a TL 100a will handle it fine so I know the TS will have no problems with it. NH wants a min of 75 pto hp for just the 575 and when I take it on some hills my little TN works its fingers to the bone to get up them when the wagon is getting full.

I just need to prioritize my needs. I need a bigger tractor, a Kuhn 6002 rake, a 5 bottom plow and one or two extra kicker wagons. This year I do not have any hills lined up to hay and the TN can handle the 575 decently on flat ground so I am leaning towards the Kuhn rake first as it will save me a bunch of time and improve the quality of the hay and windrows compared the the NH 256 rake I currently use.

Any round bales I need done I pay my neighbor to bale for me. I can not justify the expense of a round baler and the only round bales I do are when the hay gets rained on. I then sell them to the grape farmers to put down in their grape rows. This helps protect the roots from freezing during winter. You can see how little my TN looks hooked to the 575 but like I said, I bought the TN for field work and my equipment keeps getting bigger but the TN don't /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif