Newbie Questions

pairodime · Jul 7, 2004

Can anyone offer words of wisdom?

--I am rapidly approaching 20 hrs, when the Robins manual says to do the first oil change. Can anyone give any pointers about how to collect the drained oil in the bottom of the PT without making a mess? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

--I've found that when I'm greasing the zircs, that sometimes I cannot get any grease to flow into it, and freqently just end up with grease coming out between the fitting and the gun. Sometimes when the machine is in a different spot it then goes. Why? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

--After several hours of operation (everything is hot), the engine starts to sound like it's out of gas. I check but there's still 2 inches in the bottom of the tank. But I also note that bubbles are pouring out of the gas tube connection. After a few minute they stop. The engine starts up fine and I'm fine for another 20 minutes when it happens again. Near as I can tell the engine is hot enough to boil the gas creating a vapor barrier? It hasn't occured when the gas tank is more full. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

--Finally, any tips for improving the bone jarring ride when working off road? The chair could use a spring or something!

Thanks

pajoube · Jul 8, 2004

When I change oil I have a 10 inch piece of sheet metal bent into a V that I use to funnel the oil into a pan.
Greasing the zerks - if your refering to the center pivot points that is common. I just change the angle until it takes the grease. I also found that a grease gun under air pressure works more often then the pump type.
Have not noticed any gas bubbling but then really haven't looked.
Most of my tractor operation is on soil and not on roads which is a lot easier ride.
PJ

DML · Jul 8, 2004

I just changed the oil today for the first time. I think that PT had installed this bended tube to the oil drain to try to keep things neat, but I couldn't get the cap off. I ended up taking off the tube and using a piece of plastic to funnel through the hole in the bottom, similar to the previouse post.

I've also had some trouble greasing, like you. However, I had a gun with a rigid tube that was difficult to get the right angle. I just got a flexible tube and expect this to resolve.

I also did the hydrolic filter change today, and with it, emptied and replaced the hydrolic oil. It was messier than I expected. Is the priming supposed to be done befor or after filter replacement? I did it befor. When I took the filter off, a lot of oil came out, and kept coming out. It proved difficult to put the new filter on with oil pouring out over the filter and my hands. Once I did get it on, I primed again, just to be safe. It works well. Just a lot of oil on the drive.

cqaigy · Jul 8, 2004

I would think you would prime after changing the filter so as to remove any air you have introduced into the system.

FOURTEEN · Jul 8, 2004

"" any tips for improving the bone jarring ride when working off road? The chair could use a spring or something! ""

Adjust tire pressure!! 7# Rear, 11# Front.

Or, one dozen donuts every day for a month!!

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SnowRidge · Jul 8, 2004

(--After several hours of operation (everything is hot), the engine starts to sound like it's out of gas. I check but there's still 2 inches in the bottom of the tank. But I also note that bubbles are pouring out of the gas tube connection. After a few minute they stop. The engine starts up fine and I'm fine for another 20 minutes when it happens again. Near as I can tell the engine is hot enough to boil the gas creating a vapor barrier? It hasn't occured when the gas tank is more full.) 

I had that happen to me after I put the engine back in our PT-425. I traced it to tank vibrations. I didn't have the tank mounting bracket bolts tight enough (Note: not the tank mounting bolts), and the whole assembly had shifted slightly and was in contact with the hood.

Pushing the tank assembly rearward and tightening the mounting bracket bolts cured it.

MossRoad · Jul 8, 2004

On our Kohler engine, the drain holes for the oil are directly over a hole in the floor pan of the engine compartment. A large coffee can fits under the unit perfectly.

Haven't had any problems with the grease zerks or air in the gas line.

As Fourteen mentioned, adjusting your tire pressure really makes a huge difference in ride quality.

Someone on here made a suspension seat last year. I am embarrassed to say I can't recall, but think it was Johara. He said it really improved the ride.

Also, a better seat could be ordered aftermarket.

pajoube · Jul 8, 2004

Never fails /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif mine came with the frame opening for oil changing just a hair off.
PJ

FOURTEEN · Jul 8, 2004

"" the frame opening for oil changing just a hair off ""

I think we both have the same model run PT-425!! From the horizontal opening in the side of the Kohler engine a 90 degree fitting turns down with a 7/8" hex cap on the end. The cap is turned horizontally to open.

At 50 hours I had a terrible time getting that oil drain cap loose! Either the tool wouldn't fit in there, or if I found a tool that fit, I couldn't turn it!! Can't use a 7/8" socket because the cap doesn't line up with that frame opening, as you said, so I finally used a wrench and pried horizontally against it with a small crow bar!! What an ordeal!!!

Today, at 100 hours, I faced the same problem all over again! But, as I began to position a 7/8" open end wrench in the hole, the 'big idea' light bulb lit over my head!!

Slip a 7/8" open end wrench vertically over the END of the cap aligned front to back. Do not rotate the wrench! Turn the wrench horizontally about 30 degrees toward the front of the PT. Now the capped fitting still faces downward, but is tilted forward toward the frame opening! A 7/8" socket can be inserted through the frame opening directly onto the end of the hex cap, and loosen the cap easily!!!! Try it, you'll like it!!

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PS: Normal practice is to warm up the engine before an oil change. Not with the PT-425, unless you happen to have asbestos arms!! Run the engine real good on some job, then the next morning change the oil! Just allow a little extra drain time, like while you do the grease job or air cleaner service.

PPS: For the foam precleaner on the air filter, I wash the foam in dish detergent, rinse well, and air dry. In a plastic bag mix three parts chainsaw bar and chain oil with 1 part gasoline. Drop in the foam. Saturate the foam, then squeeze out as much oil as possible. Air dry on old newspaper.
The bar and chain oil is tacky and will cling to the foam better than motor oil.
The gasoline helps to evenly spread a thin coating of oil on the foam, and makes removing the excess oil easier.

pajoube · Jul 8, 2004

Great ideas ,thanks.
I use a 7/8 inch long handled open end wrench and go though the back opening slit which just reaches. So far that has worked well but have considered and extension line for draining.
PJ

cqaigy · Jul 9, 2004

we used to put extension lines on the small engines we used on water pumps to keep the whole works as clean as possible. Worked pretty good.

SnowRidge · Jul 9, 2004

(PS: Normal practice is to warm up the engine before an oil change. Not with the PT-425, unless you happen to have asbestos arms!! Run the engine real good on some job, then the next morning change the oil! Just allow a little extra drain time, like while you do the grease job or air cleaner service.) 

This is the first post I've seen on the forum that says the oil should be changed cold. I change mine hot , and I suspect just about everyone else does. The value of a hot oil change versus cold is too great to miss out on.

If you can't get your body parts (hand, arm) out of the way in time, I would suggest wearing gloves. Personally, I have no problem getting out of the way of the oil stream when using a socket on an extension through the frame opening.

pajoube · Jul 9, 2004

Can you elaborate on the reasons for changing oil hot?
PJ

SnowRidge · Jul 9, 2004

Three reasons.

1. Hot oil is thinner and drains more completely than cold.

2. Contaminants should be held in suspension by the additives in the oil, but in the event that there are some that aren't, they are more likely to be suspended in hot oil than cold.

3. We've always done it that way. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

In other words, a hot (or at least warm) oil change is more complete than a cold oil change.

pajoube · Jul 9, 2004

New information for me, thank you very much.
PJ

FOURTEEN · Jul 9, 2004

"" I have no problem getting out of the way of the oil stream ""

Very brave and agile, but do you have the PT-425 with the insulated muffler like pajoube and I have?? The oil stream is NOT the problem!! It is getting the filter out and in, cleaning up any spillage inside the frame, and, before I redirected the hex oil plug, reaching the plug from the top or side!!

"" 1. Hot oil is thinner and drains more completely than cold.""

That is why I suggested "Just allow a little extra drain time"!!

"" 2. -- they are more likely to be suspended in hot oil than cold. ""

In the old days before small engine oil filters that was a valid reason, but in a modern filtered engine large contaminants are removed by the filter, and any contaminants too small to be filtered out are too small to settle out overnight!!

"" 3. We've always done it that way.

So have I!! This is the only engine that I have ever drained cold!! But special situations call for special adaptations!!

(Power Trac is the antithesis of "We've always done it that way."!! They seem to make changes for few apparent reasons as often as possible!!)

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pairodime · Jul 9, 2004

I've adopted the recommended tire pressures. Didn't make as much difference as slowing down my travel speed did /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

But still, I wonder what difference a seat with a spring would make /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

FOURTEEN · Jul 9, 2004

Like this one!!???!!

at Nice Seat !!

, but no Power Trac logo on the back!!

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SnowRidge · Jul 9, 2004

(Very brave and agile, but do you have the PT-425 with the insulated muffler like pajoube and I have?? The oil stream is NOT the problem!! It is getting the filter out and in, cleaning up any spillage inside the frame, and, before I redirected the hex oil plug, reaching the plug from the top or side!!) 

Then how about being a little clearer in your posts and skipping the sarcasm. If your particular configuration of PT-425, and there are many, doesn't allow for immediate access to the filter, etc., then it is reasonable to wait until it is cool enough to do so. That doesn't necessarily mean waiting overnight though. External parts should cool much more rapidly than oil inside the engine. Simply waiting until items can be worked on with getting burned seems like the appropriate recommendation.

 (That is why I suggested "Just allow a little extra drain time"!!) 

I think you will find the thicker film of the cold oil coating the engine's parts will prevent the "little extra drain time" from making up for not draining the oil when it is hot..

 (In the old days before small engine oil filters that was a valid reason, but in a modern filtered engine large contaminants are removed by the filter, and any contaminants too small to be filtered out are too small to settle out overnight!!) 

Can you provide any substantiation for that? Cars, for example, have had modern filters for many years, yet all authorities that I am aware continue to preach the "drain it when it is hot" philosophy. Can you cite any authoritative source that says otherwise? If so, please do so.

MossRoad · Jul 10, 2004

Drain it while it is hot... cars...

Maybe that's so they can make their 10 minute oil change feasable! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Just kidding.

From everything I've ever read or done, it is recommended to drain the oil while it is still warm OR drain it before running the engine after it has been sitting for a long time(as in several hours). The main concern that was always instilled by mechanics to me was never run the engine for just a few minutes, then drain the oil, as the oil would be stuck up in the top end of the engine. The purpose of draining it hot was so that it flowed out more freely from the top end of the engine, not the crank case. If you let it sit overnight, all the oil has pooled into the crank case and it will all come out the drain plug, only slower.

With that said, I like to wait until I can touch the engine without burning my hands before I drain the oil. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

No science to back it up, though.