Newbie questions: Draft control?

Farmwithjunk · Mar 30, 2006

Share (also called point) is the horizontal cutting edge. Shin is the vertical cutting edge. Landslide is the side that runs against the furrow wall to keep the plow running straight. Some landslides had "wear plates" that were replaceable. The moldboard is the rounded "wing" if you will that rolls the dirt. Moldbard extentions do just that. The "disc" you refered to is called a "coulter" . There's a piece under all of that called the "frog". That holds it all together, and secures the plow bottom to the shank. Also, there are other parts that were optional called "Jointers", and cover boards (aka "trash boards") On most plows there was a "tail wheel" that took some pressure off the landslides to keep the plow running straight.

Moldboards were available as slatted, solid, and a rarity known as a "Scotch bottom". (those were primarily for turning sod)

Some older plows had the shin made into the moldboard. Those were replaced along in the 1950's with "throw-away" bottoms where the shin could be replaced without sacrificing a good moldboard.

Plows aren't used much in farming anymore, but are fast reaching new highs in value as collectors items, or for gardens and "plow days". Bigger (More than 3 bottoms) plows are about worthless anymore though.

Clear as mud, huh?

KiotiJohn · Mar 30, 2006

Farmwithjunk that was great. I'm not sure I ever knew all of that, and had forgotten most of what I did know!
When I was a kid, I used to help my great granddad do his garden with a mule and ploughs. Seems like a hundred years ago now, and all I use now is my rototiller on the hitch.
John

dieselsmoke1 · Mar 30, 2006

Geez, where's all the old farmers?
If i could change one thing about my tractor, it would be to add a good draft control system for the boxblade, subsoiler, disc, etc.
MF 35's / 135's had 3 pt. draft control down to a fine art. Didn't think I would miss much, alas i was wrong.

stevenf · Mar 30, 2006

I know a little more about tractors and their operation then I did last year as a complete newbie to tractors but I'm running a 90hp machine with some fairly specialized needs which may not enter into your requirements but I've found my draft control invaluable in saving implements from destruction. I can set the draft on the light side and not worry about folding my chisel plow into a pretzel the same goes for my boxblade scarifiers. I'm in the Texas hillcountry and its very rocky here the rocks can be as big as a tin can or a Hummer you never know quite what your looking at until you get an implement hung on it and start feeling the tractor pull down without the draft I'm sure I'd have folded something up by now. Most of my problem is that I plant food plots all over the ranch in little pieces between trees and all my implements are 3 point lift type so that I can get in and out without a lot of jockying around. This being the case most of my implements are even with my wheels if the tractor fits the implement fits, a 90 horse machine could easily pull a 14 foot plow and mine is 8 foot and when they make implements they make them as strong as the width so a 8' is typically built much lighter then a 14'. I have found some other advantages to buying undersized implements I'm probably the only guy in the county that can get a chisel in the ground after 8 months without appreciable rain because I'm pulling 7 shanks instead of 11 or more. We plowed, seeded, fertilized and disked 10 or so acres last weekend finished disking by headlight but 3 hours later it started raining and didn't stop for 2 days, our timing was as perfect as I could have ever prayed for and the seed is already germinating so we should have it above ground by this weekend.
Steve

Kamaking · Mar 31, 2006

Having farmed for many years no tractor is a toy to me.

And I know of no farmer who wouldn't want draft control.

Even with a blade or boxblade it makes it so much easier to do. I just bought a 35 hp Kama for use on my roads at my campground and the draft control on it works really nice.

I also have an old Ford 2n that has been in the familt for over 60 years and it works good to this day. I have a david brown with draft control.

If your buying a tractor and you can get it with Draft do it . /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

EddieWalker · Mar 31, 2006

How much are you saving by not having draft control?

I bet it's not that big a difference and I'm suprised it's an option with Kubota.

Just because you don't have a need for it now, nor know how to use it right now, doesnt' mean you wont in the future. We all start out knowing nothing, but in time we gain knowledge and experience. In time, you very well might find that it's something your really need. After all, there are ALLOT of tractors with it.

My tractor came with rear remotes already on it and I wasn't charged extra for it, so it was a no brainer. The advantage is that since they are there, they may come in handy one day. So far the only thing I can think of using them for would be a log splitter. I don't care for the box blade, but if it had top and tilt, I might like it better. With the rear remotes, I can go that route fairly easily.

If it was me making the choice, I would get draft control but not worry about rear remotes unless it was really cheap.

Another thing to consider when buying your tractor is bundeling a package together. Most dealers will give you a super deal on implements when you buy your tractor. If you go back in six months, he might not be so willing to give you the same price.

If you don't have the money to buy the implements now, try to get a price in writing. You can use this when you can afford them.

Things you really need are the mower. Six feet is great.

Post hole digger. It's one of those things that comes in handy all the time that you can't live without. Get a 12 inch auger with pengo style bit.

Front end loader. (FEL) This will be the most useful thing on your tractor.

Consider a disk over a rototiller. The disk is cheaper and will do the same job, but will take more passes. I'm not a fan of tillers because they are very slow on virgin soil and repairs can be extremely expensive. If you brake your disk, it's not a big deal.

The list goes on and on, but those are what I use and can recomend.

Eddie

hsvhobbit · Mar 31, 2006

LOL...folks, I think I'm gonna really enjoy this place. I can't believe just HOW much information ya'll have at your fingertips. Would've never guessed there was so much to what I've regarded as a 'simple' piece of bent metal called a plow...never again.

I believe I'll go ahead and see just how fond they are of draft control and if it's only a few $$ more will just go ahead and get it. I've been told by the previous owner that the place is loaded with rocks (at least one area of it is for sure) so if I can avoid tearing up some equipment possibly with it then it might make sense. Or am I just fooling myself?

Will definitely get the extra hydralics and controls for the tilt feature. Sorta expect my wife to use the tractor as much as I do (if I'm lucky lol) and the added convienance should be worth it. I also feel I may be able to negotiate a little on the options when I'm in the buying phase of a tractor as opposed to when I've got the tractor and they know I NEED the stuff added on.

Thanks a bunch

HEC · Apr 1, 2006

I almost bought the 5030 with the hst trans. but the dealer and a kubota factory rep. pointed me to the m series tractor instead , not an hst transmission due to my doing tillage work , like pulling a 3 bottom plow etc.I sure like the draft control on mine I believe it comes standard on all the m series.If I were going to work up 10 acres of ground I would look at a used 2 or 3 bottom plow to use first and maybe a used disc harrow and than it would be so much easier to use the rototiller after the ground is broke up ,if that is what you want, a rototiller does a very good job.You could do it with just a tiller but it might be a very slow process unless your ground is not to hard like mine can be at times.If you decide to go with a gear trans. you might want to consider creeper gears as that is the route I chose.I found that the m series tractor at least was to fast in first gear for alot of the work I do with a tractor.The creeper gears sure took care of that problem,I use them so much more than I ever thought I would.Talk to a good dealer and let them know exactly what you will be using your tractor for and they will help you to decide which tractor is best for your needs.
Good Luck

5030 · Apr 1, 2006

Dieselsmoke1

You are right about the draft on a MF. My 1085 is much more easily modulated that my M9 but, I'd still not get draft control on a CUT. Position control is workable for 95% of a CUT's useability.

KiotiJohn · Apr 1, 2006

( You are right about the draft on a MF. My 1085 is much more easily modulated that my M9 but, I'd still not get draft control on a CUT. Position control is workable for 95% of a CUT's useability. )
I agree with Daryl on this one. Position control, keep your hand on the lever and adjust it when you feel it resisting. I do this all the time while using my boxblade, and it pretty much works fine.
I can always tell as soon as I have resistance. Of course, the draft control would do it automatically, making it easier, but I guess it depends on cost as to whether it's really worth it.
If you're going as much as 45HP, I could see it.
John

dieselsmoke1 · Apr 1, 2006

Yeah, I can conceed it's not really that neccessary, espescially for a novice.

If you're used to it, you'll probably miss it a lot. If not, probably will never know the difference, like a lot of other gadgets.

Toolguy · Apr 1, 2006

What I am going to say will probably not be popular to some and if you disagree that is fine with me. It is just my opinion and since we are all on the internet and really don't know who we are talking to, who cares what I think anyway, right? Here goes.

While some apparently like draft control and use it frequently, I say it is a compromise based on marketing in order to sell more products to inexperienced consumers. Why do I say that? Because the whole idea of draft control is to control the amount of draft or "pull" on the tractor so that a small, lightweight tractor, and therefore lower cost tractor, does not stop and just spin the wheels. This may be fine if all you want to do is keep the tractor moving while pulling a consistent load. However, if what you really want to do is a consistent job with the implement you are pulling then you need a tractor powerful enough and heavy enough to do the job without raising the implement out of the ground when the going gets tough. It will not help to save implements from rock damage. That is another marketing myth. The draft control cannot raise the implement to avoid rocks, it only reacts after the rock is struck and the damage is done. It may raise the implement after contact and allow forward motion to continue but you can do that with the postion control lever. If draft control saved plows from rock damage then why were trip and later spring and hydraulic reset bottom plows developed? Trip bottoms and the like also allow just the bottom that struck a rock to pass over the rock without raising the entire plow out of the ground. The same is true of subsoilers, chisel plows and any other deep tillage tool. They need to work at a consistent depth as soil conditions change. The only way to do that is to pull them with a tractor big enough to do it without raising them out of the ground. Draft control may allow a small lightweight tractor to do more work but the quality of the work suffers.

To sum it up, if you think you need draft control, what you really need is a smaller implement or a larger tractor. Otherwise you are compromising the quality of work that is done. Studies have shown that it is more efficient to pull a small implement fast than it is to pull a large implement slowly. It may not have been done that way years ago but that does not mean it was right, just that it was the practice of the day.

Keep in mind that this is just the humble opinion of a 55 year old farm boy who grew up in the 50s, 60s and 70s driving Fords and John Deeres in the inconsistent soils of southwest Michigan. Sand, clay, rocks and hills all in the same field. Draft control did not work for us. A quick hand on the postion contol lever did. If you disagree with me and think I am totally out of line with my take on draft control I would like you to try and convince me otherwise. Maybe I am missing something. Just because I am getting old does not mean I can't be changed. My wife has been trying for 32 years. Sometimes she wins. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

5030 · Apr 1, 2006

John:

At least we agree on something. That's progress. I didn't have a chance today (had to work), but tomorrow I'll flex the 1251 on a 6" block and take a few pictures of it.

Maybe I should borrow my neighbors Michigan 12 yard quarry loader and flex the bucket with my car inside?? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Farmwithjunk · Apr 1, 2006

In 48 years of farming, I've never heard anyone claim draft control to "lift an implement out of the ground to protect it from rocks" or any such claim. That's what those trip beams on a plow are for. Draft control is to keep a constant draft load in tough plowing conditions. It's all about SLIGHT up or down movement of the plow (or what ever soil engaging implement you're working) to keep the tractor from spinning out or bogging the motor. It has NOTHING to do with protection from rocks.

When Harry Ferguson "invented" draft control for his 3 point hitch system, it was to aid in traction so a smaller, lower horsepower tractor could handle the same size plow as a bigger tractor. The slight upward lifting of the plow puts DOWNWARD pressure on the back tires. That's where the "traction aid" comes from.

I'll go along with the fact that draft control is a waste of money if someone isn't going to be plowing. But it offers ZERO protection from striking buried rocks, and never was intended for that purpose.

I don't know where the "marketing myth" idea comes from. Never heard that claim from any manufacturer.

dieselsmoke1 · Apr 2, 2006

(
To sum it up, if you think you need draft control, what you really need is a smaller implement or a larger tractor. )

Here's an example of how a good draft control system should perform that has nothing to do with plowing or horsepower or implement size, and one reason I miss it on a CUT.

On one of our paths there is a graded depression about 12' long and bottoms out around 18". This is an auxiliary spillway for the pond in case of extremely heavy rain, spillpipe clogs, whatever. A tractor with a good draft will pull a box blade half full of gravel through following the contour of the ground, raising and lowering as required to maintain load on the top link. Same goes for that 12" high hump up the hill a ways that is there to turn the water off the path. Draft simply cannot be beat if you're trying to follow existing contour.

Yes I can raise and lower the lift as axles go up and down and get close enough to use the bucket on float for final touches.

My humble opinion.

1948berg · Apr 2, 2006

As tractors grew bigger and bigger and getting 4wd people have more or less forgotten draft control and the Ferguson system. With draft control you can plow, scrape and do other jobs with constant depth, even if the front of the tractor moves up and down. well described here;http://users.netlink.com.au/~fergy/draftcont.html
Wether you need it on a "hobby" tractor or not is another story, but maybe you will get the extra money back on secondhand value!

If you choose to buy draft control you can think of that under your seat is the system that revolutionated farming. Read more about Harry Ferguson and his life, very interesting, many pages on the subject on the web.

Farmwithjunk · Apr 2, 2006

( the Ferguson system. well described here;http://users.netlink.com.au/~fergy/draftcont.html If you choose to buy draft control you can think of that under your seat is the system that revolutionated farming. Read more about Harry Ferguson and his life, very interesting, many pages on the subject on the web. )

AMEN Brother!

When 3 point hitch became an integral part of farming, smaller (read AFORDABLE) tractors became the norm on small farms across the world. That allowed those small farms to become more productive, hence more profitable.

Draft control might not carry the same weight in todays world, seeing as to how modern farming operations use those giant 4WD's, which utilize mostly drawn equipment (as opposed to mounted) But in it's day, smaller 3-point tractors did stand the industry on it's proverbial ear.

Even if "Joe Playfarmer" does do some plowing today, it's generally not to feed the world (or even his family) . Back then, it was for those reasons. People had to take what was barely afordable and increase their production beyond the capabilities of their equipment. (Do more with less...) If someone has the desire to do a little plowing now and again these days, it's not unreasonable to own a tractor that 50 years ago would have been considered far too big for the land they worked.

I could understand why someone would order a tractor without draft control in todays world , but that would have been out of the question back when draft control was "state of the art".

Keith_B · Apr 4, 2006

( How much are you saving by not having draft control?

I bet it's not that big a difference and I'm suprised it's an option with Kubota.

Just because you don't have a need for it now, nor know how to use it right now, doesnt' mean you wont in the future. We all start out knowing nothing, but in time we gain knowledge and experience. In time, you very well might find that it's something your really need. After all, there are ALLOT of tractors with it.

My tractor came with rear remotes already on it and I wasn't charged extra for it, so it was a no brainer. The advantage is that since they are there, they may come in handy one day. So far the only thing I can think of using them for would be a log splitter. I don't care for the box blade, but if it had top and tilt, I might like it better. With the rear remotes, I can go that route fairly easily.

If it was me making the choice, I would get draft control but not worry about rear remotes unless it was really cheap.

Another thing to consider when buying your tractor is bundeling a package together. Most dealers will give you a super deal on implements when you buy your tractor. If you go back in six months, he might not be so willing to give you the same price.

If you don't have the money to buy the implements now, try to get a price in writing. You can use this when you can afford them.

Things you really need are the mower. Six feet is great.

Post hole digger. It's one of those things that comes in handy all the time that you can't live without. Get a 12 inch auger with pengo style bit.

Front end loader. (FEL) This will be the most useful thing on your tractor.

Consider a disk over a rototiller. The disk is cheaper and will do the same job, but will take more passes. I'm not a fan of tillers because they are very slow on virgin soil and repairs can be extremely expensive. If you brake your disk, it's not a big deal.

The list goes on and on, but those are what I use and can recomend.

Eddie

)

Those little options like draft control, that are extra $$ items on the Kubota and came standard on my Mahindra, were a factor in my choosing the Mahindra.

Ob1kubota · Apr 4, 2006

Newbee welcome to the world of small-scale farming. just about everything said from the above members is good advice but I'd like to refer you to a book by Karl Schwenke at www.story.com, "successful small-scale farming" it talks about drafting, moldboard plowing, etc. is unnecessary and even bad for the soil. Hummmmm thought provoking! Put yourself in a good 'cash crop' for Alabama climate and your soil base and subscribe to "Small Farm Technical Newsletter"
Whatley Farms, Inc., PO Box 2827, Montgomery, AL 36105-0827. AND DON'T QUIT YOUR DAY JOB /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If' en you get down to Bham look ole Ob1 up ya hear! We'll take all ya'lls on a plant tour of Altec.