Tractor Sizing Newbie needs tractor recommendations

[CesumPec]

After years of dreaming and searching, I've bought some land, 168 acres of terribly infertile sand in Florida痴 Ocala National Forest, Zone 9. There is lots of composting and soil amending in my future. If my only criteria had been great farmland, I would have looked elsewhere, but several other factors make this a happy choice for both my wife and me. I would greatly appreciate tractor and attachment recommendations from those with experience.

The property is currently 40 - 45 acres in natural Florida jungle in need of taming, 90 - 100 acres of Long-Leaf pines ready to be thinned for pulp wood, and the balance is in low value oaks and other hardwoods. The pines will be thinned to create pastures with the best trees allowed to grow another 10 years for saw timber.

Future plans (maybe dreams which will change as the land talks to me) include up to 80 large livestock, cows and horses, a few pigs and goats to help in clearing that jungle, up to 8 or 10 acres of row crops that due to root-knot nematodes will need to be in a 5 year rotation covering 40 50 acres, a couple of ponds that will have to be dug and will consume a total of 4 to 8 acres, a 6 horse stable, an equipment storage barn, some fruit trees, and a new planting of pines on what ever acreage I decide I can set aside for the next 25 years.

All I致e decided from my tractor research is that I need 4WD and diesel (I want to keep all the big engines on the farm on the same fuel). Looking for your HP and attachment recommendations. I think I need:
Fence post driver I at least want to have a tractor capable of mounting a rented driver. All 3+ miles of perimeter fencing needs to be replaced and I値l eventually need 2 or more miles of cross fencing for pastures. I plan to use movable electric to break up pastures for rotational cattle grazing.
Front end loader
Back hoe to dig ponds and trench water lines
Bush hog the property really needs a good cutting soon
Fork lift
what ever equipment you would recommend for preparing soil, planting, and nurturing row crops and pastures
and what ever is needed to maintain .5 mile of limerock road and another 1.5 miles of sand roads.

Two items I知 fairly sure to get for the truck (a beater F-350 diesel flatbed, dual rear wheels): A trailer large enough to tote the tractor when needed, with removable stake sides for hauling bulk materials; and a chipper/shredder. I think I prefer a diesel powered chipper that I can tow with the truck vs one on the PTO of the tractor so that I can more easily gather composting materials from off the farm.

All comments, opinions, suggestions invited and highly appreciated. I realize I have lots to learn from you folks who have already made this your life.

 

[Grandad4]

It sounds like you have A LOT of work ahead of you, and you're going to need some serious equipment to handle it. I'm seeing multiple tractors in your future because the scale of what you've described will require it. A full-sized TLB (backhoe) seems like a good choice for your land clearing and preparation work. Doesn't need to be brand new; should be some good used ones available. And a good sized ag tractor (say 80-120 horsepower), again maybe a used one, would handle a heavy brush cutter and other attachments, have a strong loader to which a grapple could be mounted for moving logs and clearing brush.

Did I mention it sounds like you have a huge amount of work in store? As for digging 4 to 8 acres of ponds... Even the equipment I described above would be challenged doing that. You need to be thinking about really big equipment for such a job, either hired or bought just for your project.

Land clearing on such a scale takes heavy equipment, time, money and skill. Beyond that, make yourself a master plan for what, when and how you are going to get it all done! I admire your ambition, and hope you are young enough, prosperous enough and motivated enough to do it all.

 

[richamor]

That much work on that much land needs more than one machine. I'd suggest a loader/backhoe in the 90/100hp range. A small dozer with similar power. And a 80/100hp tractor and a smaller 25/35hp tractor both with fel's.

I love spending other folk's money

 

[CesumPec]

OK, please allow me to clarify. I wasn't clear and it might not be as bad as I led you to believe. The pines will be harvested by a hired crew. They have specialized equipment that can get the job done better and faster than I ever could. But I will be left with stumps cut at ground level and I've read that long-leaf pine stumps are so full of tar that they don't rot in any sort of reasonable time. A state forester told me the best thing to do was rent (or buy used and sell when done) a dozer to remove stumps and root rake. I suppose I could save the pond digging for when I am ready to stump.

So does that alter your recommendations?

Also, based on having about 8 months of the year with 90F weather, would you spend your own money (hey, you can't keep spending my money) on a cab and AC? I'm leaning towards yes but hate to waste money on a comfort item when I could put that $$$ towards a couple of necessary implements.

 

[CesumPec]

never mind about the cab. Just found a thread that answered yes with enthusiasm

 

[richamor]

I would recommend against buying new. The dozer and backhoe especially could be bought used and sold later without much of a loss. Just be prepared to do some repair work. The tractors as well do not necessarily need to be new, although I would try to find late model low hour units if you plan to keep them long term.
Just be sure to have what you're buying checked out by someone who knows what to look for if you don't.
And yeah, I'd go with the cab if possible. But I wouldn't let it be a deal breaker.

 

[Grandad4]

Well, that helps somewhat to narrow things down a bit. Maybe I'm being particularly thick-headed (wouldn't be the first time), but it would sure help me visualize what's involved if you could post a few pics of your place.

For example, I still don't know what degree of "thinned out" you're talking about. Do you mean basically a clear cut, with a few scattered trees or what? If it's pretty much a clear cut, yes a dozer could easily grub out all the stumps and grade it smooth in short order. But a Cat isn't going to weave in and out amongst a whole bunch of live trees that you want left standing, right?

And you still have 40 acres of "jungle" to clear, which is a lot of land to clear. Finally, you say you want to end up with 40-50 acres available for row crops plus pasture acreage for 80 head of cattle.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that still sounds like something you either get it all done at one time with heavy equipment or plan to spend years doing with farm tractor sized machinery.

 

[CesumPec]

I would recommend against buying new. The dozer and backhoe especially could be bought used and sold later without much of a loss.

Agreed on the dozer. It isn't something I would need long term so rent or buy used and resell makes sense. I'll evaluate based on the economics when the time comes. But the tractor is something I'll need for a long time to come so I'm leaning more towards new, but I'm open minded to something used if I can find something with low hours and in good condition.

I'm still on the fence about the backhoe, still trying to determine its capability vs the hours of needs.

I still don't know what degree of "thinned out" you're talking about.

And you still have 40 acres of "jungle" to clear, which is a lot of land to clear. Finally, you say you want to end up with 40-50 acres available for row crops plus pasture acreage for 80 head of cattle.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that still sounds like something you either get it all done at one time with heavy equipment or plan to spend years doing with farm tractor sized machinery.

I still have to meet with the forester to make sure my plan makes good sense for my location. Currently the trees are generally in 8' wide rows with trees spaced from 2 to 8 feet in row. A plan on the UF website said that to maximize income over the next 10 - 15 years I should thin for partially clear/partially shaded pastures and saw-timber production. That means something like leaving rows 1 and 3 and removing rows 2, 4, and 5, then repeat. Trees in rows would be thinned to maybe one every 6 - 10 feet.

If I can figure it out, I'll post what few photos I have. You'll see that even with the current drought and spacing of trees, the pines allow enough light for grasses to grow.

As to clearing the 40 acres of jungle, part of that will be pond, part will go to the pigs and goats to clear over time, and part will be converted to crop land over the years. As I need more crop land, I'll clear one year ahead. Also, the 40 - 50 acres of crop land can be in pastures or cover crops 4 out of 5 years, so I won't ever be plowing the majority of that acreage in any one year.

As to timing, I plan to start small and keep my mistakes low cost as I learn my way. As soon as I get water and fencing, I'll get a dozen cattle or so and add to the herd each year as pastures improve and my knowledge grows. The land plan I posted was for the long term so those of you on my advisory council could see where I want to go.

Many thanks, Grandpa, for your input. Just your asking questions forces me to rethink from different angles.

 

[flusher]

What's your budget for tractors and implements?

My neighbor used his Cat D7 dozer to rip the hardpan down to about 24 inches depth when he was establishing his alfalfa fields. Something like this, used, would handle stump removal and pond building, but I don't think you could transport it with your F350. Something like a used F550 dump truck with a flatbed trailer would handle it.

Row cropping 50 acres @ 8-10 acres/year---my 1951 Farmall Super A is a possibility. It's specifically a row-crop tractor with row crop implements available on eBay, etc. Mine came off Craigslist for $1300 including a 3pt hitch (the IH 2-pt hitch was standard, the 3pt was aftermarket add-on) and a mid-mount 6-ft sicklebar mower. The Farmall 140 is a larger version of the Super A.

Your go-to tractor should be a 50-70 hp 4WD with some type of synchro shift tranny, power steering, 6-ft wide FEL with skid steer quick attach option on the FEL arms, triple hydraulic remotes on the rear and one remote on the front, and (possibly) a cab with A/C to keep you cool and bug-free.

Good luck.

 

[Sockwell]

What you need as much as anything is about four sons, ages, say 15 to 20.:laughing:

 

[CesumPec]

What you need as much as anything is about four sons, ages, say 15 to 20.:laughing:

Darn - I'll have to give up the dream.

All I've got is one 15 yr old daughter who has vowed to never come out of her room if we are so cruel as to make her move from the suburbs to a farm. But I do have a wife who has had this dream longer than I have and I have a life long friend who takes abuse well.

 

[Soundguy]

I think i would break the purchase down into 3 machines.

1, get a TLB industrial model like a ford 555 it has a very hd loader and backhow. you can get forks for the loader for the forklift idea, and will run better over that sand than a forklift.. or even a rough teraine lift.

2, get a big older tractor.. say ford 5XXX + upt to a 7XXX or even a 8xxx/9xxx/tw series... that will be the big hp machine if you need a batwing or dig disc.

3, get big CUT or small UT 4wd.. maybee with a quick attach loader.. or perhaps no loder at all. this machine would likelt be inthe 35-45 hp range and would be the basic run around machine to do most chores unless digging the pond or moving lots rounders ( TLB ) or big mowing and discing ( large machine ).

the used tlb and big older iron will likely set you back about 12000$.. the 4wd CUT will likely set you back 10-20K depending on specific options if new.. perhaps a lil less used. alternately nix the idea of the big older iron and just go tlb and a 45-60 hp UT tractor. it will limit your mower size to a max of about 8' and perhaps a 10' disc.. though.. and probabl not much $ savings, as the older iron likely only costs 3000-6000$ and you can eat that up easilly going from the 2 hp ranges i specified. though don't always think on the small side.. a good used late model 90-100 hp ford/NH like a 7610s can be found in 4wd and with a loader ifneeded. lots were used around marion county as road maintenance mahines.. weeks auction is near you ( so am i, realitively speaking since fl is narrow in your area ).. and they have lots of mahines like I'm talking about going thru monthly.. same with mowers and disc. etc. a good used 7610s 4x4 with loader and a disc and 10' mower might make a nice package..

congrats on the big acerage.. i'd love to have that much.. sand or not.

ps.. that's great terraine for hog, bear and deer... have taken many hog there...

ps ps.. welcome to TBN!

soundguy

 

[CesumPec]

Your go-to tractor should be a 50-70 hp 4WD with some type of synchro shift tranny, power steering, 6-ft wide FEL with skid steer quick attach option on the FEL arms, triple hydraulic remotes on the rear and one remote on the front, and (possibly) a cab with A/C to keep you cool and bug-free.

Good luck.

Thanks, that's about what I was thinking.

 

[CesumPec]

a few photos, sorry for the poor resolution but it's all I have now.

 

[TripleR]

I can't improve on the advice given so far, but having farmed be prepared to do something like Soundguy recommends and be willing to spend a lot more money than you can now imagine. We have several tractors, but still have had to rent/hire work done and we aren't even farming for a living.

Good luck with your endeavors; nothing quite like living in the country.:thumbsup:

 

[lockhaven]

Thermal Nuclear War Head. Then just a box blade:laughing:

 

[Grandad4]

I'll support Flusher's and Soundguy's recommendations. After looking at your pics, your trees are not quite as massive as I had imagined, and maybe the attack of the killer D8's isn't really needed. A big old TLB plus Soundguy's big Ford, or the equivalent, would probably do wonders. And a good "go-to" tractor, as Flusher puts it, will be extremely useful for general daily activity. You'll still be spending a lot of quality time out there, I imagine.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Your go-to tractor should be a 50-70 hp 4WD with some type of synchro shift tranny, power steering, 6-ft wide FEL with skid steer quick attach option on the FEL arms, triple hydraulic remotes on the rear and one remote on the front, and (possibly) a cab with A/C to keep you cool and bug-free.

Good luck.

That's about what my recommendation was going to be. A tractor with about 60-65 PTO hp is big enough to handle a fair bit of hay/field work, but is also small enough to still do utility oriented tasks. This size tractor will handle a 7', 8' or 10' (pull-type) bush hog, use a 7' loader bucket, 7' box blade, 8' scrape blade. For field work you can pull a 3 bottom plow, 8' to 12' disc harrow, mow hay with a 9' mower conditioner (sickle type) or about a 7' disc mower. Bale with most any square baler or 4x4 or 4x5' round balers.

I personally like John Deere and Kubota, so my recommendation would be either the M7040 Kubota or 5083E JD.

 

[CesumPec]

Soundguy - thanks for the input. I checked into Week Auctions, that's a good lead. I wish I was going to be around there for their July 9 auction of heavy equipment. Even if I didn't buy anything, it would be very educational just to see where the market is at.

I'm near Silver Springs, where are you?

 

[Soundguy]

i'm in the but end of the county.. my back yard borders sumter.

weeks is on sr 40, just west of i75.. likely a straight shot for you.

I catch MOST of their auctions.

soundguy