NEW XR4145C with Issue

   / NEW XR4145C with Issue #1  
Avenger

Avenger

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2018
Messages
1,452
Location
North Idaho
Tractor
LS XR4145C
Hello All,

First post, been lurking for a year or so.
I recently purchased a new XR4145C shuttle shift. Everything about this tractor is awesome and I could not be happier. Though I have only put about 10 hours or so in the last two weeks of ownership. However, while doing some loader work, I noticed the infamous "floppy bucket syndrome!" No, not me! Everything is working so well!!!

CRAP!

YouTube has a few videos of this happening. And then, YouTube also has a gentleman who has the same tractor I do, only HST. I asked him in the comments if he has this issue. He got back to me with a 'no, maybe you have air in the line.'

So, I started looking into fixes for this issue. I found the very popular add-a-flow-restrictor trick. I purchased the correct one from Amazon for $30 and installed it same day it arrived. I got it adjusted to where the tractor lugs down a little while curling the bucket up (I adjusted it from all the way closed to full open with same results). With the engine running at 1500rpm, the bucket still flops and takes about 3 seconds of pressure to reengage. When lowering the bucket down and putting pressure on the cutting edge, the bucket curls up almost like a float. This is not acceptable.

I spoke to my local dealer about it, but he has "never heard of the issue" and didn't say anymore about it. I will hound him some more, but I think that maybe pointless.

I have many projects where I need the bucket to function properly. Growing up on a larger farm, I know how FELs operate, and this is not it. I have checked the hydraulic pressure and adjusted the relief valve slightly, not enough to make any difference. The fluid level is correct as well. Not sure if it is the pump or maybe the control valve itself. A leaking seal should show different symptoms.

If this is just an LS thing, anyone know of any fixes that would correct this issue? Not sure what control valve I should be looking at as a replacement or what else I can do. 'Living with it,' as some suggest, is simply not an option. $30K for this tractor (with a few implements), it should function correctly.

Thank you in advance for all your thoughts and advice.
 
   / NEW XR4145C with Issue #2  
Avenger:
Avenger :welcome: to TBN sorry to hear your problems with such a new tractor it's still under warranty let the dealer deal with it.
 
   / NEW XR4145C with Issue #3  
Does it still do it when running at PTO RPM?
1500 RPM is pretty slow to expect much of the hydraulics.
Being a tier4 machine, you really want to be 2000 RPM or better when doing any work.
 
   / NEW XR4145C with Issue #4  
3Lfarms said:
Does it still do it when running at PTO RPM?
1500 RPM is pretty slow to expect much of the hydraulics.
Being a tier4 machine, you really want to be 2000 RPM or better when doing any work.
Click to expand...

Have to disagree Low RPM's should just result in slow movement of the bucket after the 1st actuation

Floppy bucket- sure seems like there have been a thread or 2 on TBN about it

found this 1


http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/352989-ls-tractor-bucket-flop-problem.html
 
Last edited:
   / NEW XR4145C with Issue #5  
Can you expand a bit more on what you're doing with the loader and what you're seeing? I noticed on mine that if I do something like a quick bucket dump and then immediately try to use the bucket to back drag material my bucket can be "floppy". That said, if I know I'm going to back drag and I tip the bucket against the ground until there is evident force and then maybe curl it back a little bit to set the angle where I want it then I don't have any bucket flop. It's almost like the weight of the bucket evacuates the fluid on one side of the cylinder too fast, and it takes a short amount of time for the dump side of the bucket cylinders to recover. I believe that's what the flow restricter is supposed to help with.

Maybe you could try experimenting and see if you have similar results?
 
   / NEW XR4145C with Issue #6  
   / NEW XR4145C with Issue
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Yes, that is exactly right. However, I am not doing a quick bucket dump. My loader does not have that ability. Unless you mean gravity helping it down at the rapid rate. Which is what I suspect. I put the flow restriction valve in place, but it does not seem to help, that is unless I am at full throttle, at which time it is not that bad. I got the Shuttle shift version because I do alot of loader work. And using the shuttle, clutch, and foot throttle makes more since to me while using the FEL. Typically I run the hand throttle up to about 1200rpm and use the foot throttle for work. When dumping into a truck or pile, I am off the foot throttle and dumping. Banging the bucket to get the stuck stuff out is impossible unless I hold pressure for seconds. That sucks.

If the dealer says "thats the way its supposed to be" I dont think he will cover it under warranty.?

Anyway, I am thinking that maybe if I replace the loader control valve with a regen one?? Anyone know of one that is good and will work for my tractor? I dont know, I am almost desperate!

Thank you all for the help!
 
   / NEW XR4145C with Issue #8  
I have an XR4145 as well. I grew up on older Kubotas with the regen valves, and used the foot throttle as you described, so I understand the differences in loader operation you are seeing, as I see it myself. As mentioned above, you can't run these tractors at low RPMs. Not just for hydraulic operation, but you will quickly pollute the DPF with soot. There are many threads on here about that. I'm not sure how the hydraulic pump on the LS is designed versus a Kubota, but my seat-of-the-pants experience is that there is not as much flow at lower RPMs with the LS, which contributes to the floppy bucket issue. A regen valve would help, but you still need the engine speed to run the pump. Try doing your work with the hand throttle at 2000rpm. It isn't as smooth as changing the rpm while your doing your loader work, but I haven't found a more efficient method with this tractor. I've gotten used to it now, so it really isn't a big deal. I'm just as fast as I was on the older Kubota.
 
   / NEW XR4145C with Issue #9  
Avenger said:
Yes, that is exactly right. However, I am not doing a quick bucket dump. My loader does not have that ability. Unless you mean gravity helping it down at the rapid rate. Which is what I suspect. I put the flow restriction valve in place, but it does not seem to help, that is unless I am at full throttle, at which time it is not that bad. I got the Shuttle shift version because I do alot of loader work. And using the shuttle, clutch, and foot throttle makes more since to me while using the FEL. Typically I run the hand throttle up to about 1200rpm and use the foot throttle for work. When dumping into a truck or pile, I am off the foot throttle and dumping. Banging the bucket to get the stuck stuff out is impossible unless I hold pressure for seconds. That sucks.

If the dealer says "thats the way its supposed to be" I dont think he will cover it under warranty.?

Anyway, I am thinking that maybe if I replace the loader control valve with a regen one?? Anyone know of one that is good and will work for my tractor? I dont know, I am almost desperate!

Thank you all for the help!
Click to expand...

Yeah, I just meant dumping it wide open with gravity helping.
 
   / NEW XR4145C with Issue #10  
Hi
I have an XR4150H couple of things, you should work your tractor at, at least 2,000 RPMs. Heck I putz around at 2k work at 2500 to 2700. your tractor will thank you.

Thought I had loader limp issues until I learned to have pressure on the bucket blade, then give it a bit more curl, bam won't float but "engages" the bucket where I want it.
 
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