New UNIQUE Seat Switch Issue (4 long flashes)

[hoffy02]

new to me JD 4310, had it almost a year. Loader, backhoe, runs great. Love it

Few weeks into having it i got the classic "wont move forward or reverse".. I lurked on here for a while and found I needed to bypass the bad seat switch. Did that and it worked again for a few hours maybe.. I figured it could be a short further up the line, fast forward 5 more cuts and splices moving further up the main wiring bundle. All with the same result. Worked for a while then same failure code, and no reverse or forward. so far I have cut back these safety seat switch wires as far as where the main wiring bundle moves from under tractor into the main engine compartment right behind the break pedals on left side.
There is absolutely no pattern to what induces this failure and 4 long flashes. I worked as an electronics technician in the military and we lived and died on repeat-ability for troubleshooting. driving slow down the street, moving dirt, digging whatever.. It sometimes happens every 5 minutes, sometimes, I can use it for 2 days and no issue. this used to be just an annoyance as all i was doing was mostly dirt work. Now I have a 3 point mower, just hooked it up today, in my 5 minute test run, it did this sudden stop, 4 long flashes, 4 different times..
to further confuse my troubleshooting efforts, there is no pattern to what corrects the failure. Sometimes it starts driving again before the flashing sequence is completed. sometimes i have to let it low idle for 20 mins. sometimes hitting the steering wheel and cursing it to **** will make it move again..

Please, Oh wise gods of the TBN community.. Lend me some help!

CJ in PA

 

[beenthere]

:welcome: to TBN

Maybe a trip to your Deere dealer for a computer check-down.

I don't understand the assumption this was a "wire short further up the line". But your electronics training may have encouraged that plan, rightly or wrongly.

Do you have the service tech manual ? Electrical schematics are in that.

 

[hoffy02]

Thansk Beenthere.
I do not have the manual.
If the switch was bad bypassing it would have fixed it, unless there was a short somewhere up the line still simulating an open switch at the seat.. At least that was my logic..Really hate taking any equipment to any dealers.. I dont trust them for even the easiest of fixes.

 

[Zebrafive]

Just curious, were you finding broken wires? Or just splicing, to bypass, at every connector you came to?


I am thinking it might be some other sensor rather than the seat switch. Does it have an engine speed sensor, ground speed sensor, or PTO speed sensor? If so I would be looking at these.

 

[hoffy02]

No. I was not finding broken wires. Was just assuming there had to be a short (break) in the line somewhere. I知 sure it does have those sensors and will look into testing them.
Also, if there is one pattern 斗ike situation where it seems to happen more often, is when the tractor is up to running temperature. As in mowing for 30 minutes with no issue then loose forward and reverse. Again, no rhyme or reason to what makes it run again.

 

[100 td]

Your fault certainly sounds like it's elsewhere in the safety circuit, if you want to gamble $40, give this a go, no idea of the validity. If you get the circuit and post it, it will be easier for one of us to assist.
John Deere 421� 431� 441� Utility Tractor TM1985 PDF

 

[kthompson]

I would look at the other safety switches also. Could be you stopping to work on the wire is allowing it to cool or you are jiggleing it enough to get a loose connection to touch till switch heat back up or connections vibrate loose again. If a safety switch is over heating causing the issue not sure what they are called but get a spray can that is made to spray such with and lower the temp and see if that affects the switch. Could also be a relay. My experience with electrical have never found a bad wire but bad printed circuit yes. Switches and relays, yes.

 

[joecdeere]

Thansk Beenthere.
I do not have the manual.
If the switch was bad bypassing it would have fixed it, unless there was a short somewhere up the line still simulating an open switch at the seat.. At least that was my logic..Really hate taking any equipment to any dealers.. I dont trust them for even the easiest of fixes.

Shoot me your email, I have a PDF of the technical manual you’re welcome to

Joe

 

[TCSavage]

Poor ground somewhere?

 

[Kubota 2350]

Poor ground somewhere?

This would be my guess too.

 

[hoffy02]

Thanks all for the replys.
Joecdeere, Thanks for the offer, I sent you a PM..

after posting the question I was away chasing my kids around a waterpark.. FUN.. I did mow again after i posted this and it definitely seems to be related to heat. I mowed fine with no issues for about 30 minutes at PTO level rpm's and once it started "failing" i would idle down for a few minutes and it would start working again.. Once I get the manual I wil be able to locate the circuit and come back to you guys with more detailed info.. Thanks again for the help.

 

[hoffy02]

So I got the manual. (Thanks for the generosity beenthere!) Will be perusing that tonight. I did try another round of mowing today. About 20 minutes in, it started again. Seems to be strengthening my theory it could be heat related.
Somebody mentioned looses grounds earlier but I wouldn稚 even know where to find all the places there could be ground connections and if that was the case it seems to me it would happen more often. Whether hot or cold.
Also, for the sake of more information, I get this same 4 Long flash no matter if I知 using the pedal, or on cruise control, uphill, downhill, or crossways.
I知 usually good at troubleshooting but this seems more like a 田omputer or circuit problem vs. a bad switch or shorts in wires.
Anyway just an update

 

[beenthere]

Thanks, but give full credit where it is due.. to joecdeere who is very helpful to Deere owners.

 

[hoffy02]

First.. You're right Beenthere.. I confused my thank yous! thanks a million to Joec for the manual!!.
I'm really at a loss.. I mowed all day today (4 acres on a hill side). Hot. Sun shining.. It did its stop ( no forward or reverse, 4 long flashes) thing one time and one time only. ANd that was toward the end of mowing the first 2 acres non stop. and it lasted for only 5 seconds tops then right back to mowing.. No issues..

I've been reading the manual, and as you would expect, its "connected" to **** near every circuit through the power supply.. My next check point is going to be in the connections to the Electronic Operating System Controller.. Maybe there is a bad connection or loose pin there.

unrelated (i think) question about the behavior of a Hydro tranny tractor as this is my first.. So normal operation, as you let off the pedal it slows or stops until you apply more pressure to the go pedal.. so last week or week before was my first time mowing with this tractor I was making tight turns and decided to turn off the 4wd to try and prevent tearing up the grass.. I did that at the bottom of the hill. I then mowed my next uphill pass and turned to make the downhill pass.. HOLD ON BOYS!! that thing took off like a rocket with no pedal input. like it was free wheeling. hit the brakes but at that speed and incline i got no response. I was headed full blast at the tree line at the bottom of the hill.. I probably should have bailed but tried to turn it across the hill first in an attempt to save her, almost immediately tipped over. I think the mower actually saved me as it caught the dirt and set me back down. I was already correcting by turning right as fast as i could and it spun a full 180 like I was on ice. When I came to a stop i was pointing back up the hill only needing a change of drawers.. Only about 20 yard short of some 3' diameter black walnut trees.. I immediately put it back in 4 wheel drive and this has never happened again going down hill.. Is it normal operation to free spin or free wheel like that going down hill in 2wd?

 

[beenthere]

Doubt you were "free spinning", but suspect your rear wheels were slipping, and due to the differential then one wheel was rolling faster and the other wheel moving the opposite direction.

Your best corrective action would likely have been to put more forward movement on the "go" pedal. i.e. increase speed to catch up with the downhill forward movement. Like being on ice, you need to get the tires moving the same speed as the ground to re-gain traction.

You are fortunate that something real bad didn't happen to you. And leaving it in "4wd" will be the best for control. Same think can happen with a non-hydro, so being Hydro was not the cause. Having more weight on the rear will help keep traction to the rear wheels so they do not slide.

 

[hoffy02]

Thanks Beenthere. Yes I知 very lucky. Really scared me. I致e only lived here 4 years. I知 a flat lander from Texas. These **** hills teach me something every year. Been lucky a few times.