New tractor sitting in shop

[runnyrunnerton]

Maybe you guys have heard something I don't know about. I have a JD4044M sitting in the shop since for 11 days thus far and am growing concerned. I was having what i thought were fuel problems and now I and apparently the techs are still stumped.

About 20 hrs ago i found after about an hour or two of loader work (Fairly intensive, not as intensive as mowing at full rpm) my engine would begin to suddenly lose power and in some cases die. I could see air bubbles in the water separator and was certain I had air getting in the line.

I replaced the fuel line from the tank to the water separator thinking I had probably nicked it with a stick or something, and replaced the water separator filter. Some minor sediment on the top of the filter, and some minor dark blemishes in the bottom of the separator but nothing alarming (to me). I fired up the tractor headed out to mow. Engine died after about an hour of mowing. The "STOP" light came on. The manual says the engine is shutting itself off and telling me to shut it off before catastrophic engine damage occurs.

I threw my hat at it. Towed it to the house, let it cool down, slapped it on the trailer and took it to the dealer. 157 hours on the tractor. Dealer says, codes were engine coolant temp and high fuel temp. My temp gauge never went past vertical. Dealer says I haven't been blowing out the fuel cooler properly. Normally I would call BS as I religiously blow off the tractor every time I use it, but benefit of the doubt and I was happy to hear nothing serious had occurred.

Got tractor home next day. Took it out to mow, ran it for 1.5 hrs with my freshly blown out radiator and fuel regulator. "STOP" light comes on, engine dies. Tow-cool down-dealer.

It is sitting in the dealership for 4 5 business days with no update available from service manager. He said they are on the phone with john deere making sure the software is updated and trying to track down the problem. The issue shows up after the tractor has run under load for about an hour.

Forgot to mention the key-switch died at 10 hrs, rendering tractor immobile. Had to pitch a fit to get them to come out and fix my brand new tractor that wouldn't start.

I am patient, but I am growing concerned I may have a lemon or worse, just shy of a lemon. Anyone have any advice? I am going stir crazy with no real updates as to why my brand new tractor doesn't want to run.

 

[LD1]

First I have heard of a tractor with a fuel cooler so that's new to me.

All these modern electronics in combination with epa, Regen, etc....

It wouldn't surprise me if there is nothing at all mechanically wrong. And it's electronic/computer related.

Sorry I cannot help. But good luck.

 

[CincyFlyer]

First I have heard of a tractor with a fuel cooler so that's new to me.

All these modern electronics in combination with epa, Regen, etc....

It wouldn't surprise me if there is nothing at all mechanically wrong. And it's electronic/computer related.

Sorry I cannot help. But good luck.

Don't worry. In twenty years or so, they'll have the electronics sorted as well as they do in cars.

 

[Stimw]

Not trying to be a smart arss but could it be fuel cap vent?
It has happened many times before where the vent stops up and engine will pull a vacuum and quit.
Easy to check, it stalls, open the cap and listen for a hiss. Try starting.

 

[jaxs]

Might be time to talk directly with JD head shed about furnishing a loaner while they educate dealer on how to maintain tractors they built.

 

[oosik]

I had something very similar with my Kubota. Tech was out three times to fix - ran for an hour to hour and a half then quit. Finally their good 'ol country boy head tech came out - took one look - says - "sheet" that an easy fix. He did his thing and its been good as gold ever since.

Corporate came thru also - refunded about 85% of all fees and costs.

 

[LD1]

I had something very similar with my Kubota. Tech was out three times to fix - ran for an hour to hour and a half then quit. Finally their good 'ol country boy head tech came out - took one look - says - "sheet" that an easy fix. He did his thing and its been good as gold ever since.

Corporate came thru also - refunded about 85% of all fees and costs.

So what was the easy fix?

 

[runnyrunnerton]

Yeah. What was the easy fix? I'm not feeling terribly confident in this machine when the techs are staring at it for 3 days and are still all shoulders.

I will try the gas cap thing, but clogged after 157 hrs and being cleaned after every use seems like a long shot. I am no slouch mechanically, I thought that might be an issue so I shot the cap with the air compressor a time or two and the part inside seemed to be moving freely. before and after.

For those wondering I use a 2.5 horse B&S junk pressure washer that builds about 2,000 psi....with the wind.

As for the REGEN I have only had to do a parked regen once. The rest of the time, it happens as I am running, the temp builds and the soot level gets to about 60 or 70 and the cycle starts. I can only tell you things get a little a warm, other than that it is terribly difficult to notice any major event.

Fuel Cooler Pic. I was told one need to remove the cowling to blow this thing out. "I know, lets hide the air cooled radiator device behind the battery in the bottom of a sealed compartment" -JD Engineer

 

[CincyFlyer]

The quick check we used for the fuel cap vent is to simply leave it fairly loose (with half a tank or less, please!) and just drive the tractor as usual. (On my White gasoline garden tractor, when the cap clogged, it would run OK at low speeds on hot days-when fuel vapor pressurized the tank, I suppose-and starve when you gave it the gas. Six dollars for a new cap, and all was well.)

 

[oosik]

OK - the easy fix. I'll try to make this short. My tractor engine has a fuel return line from the fuel pump back to the fuel tank. A common feature on most all diesel engines??? The line is all steel except for a one foot section of rubber hose with a back flow valve. The rubber hose kept coming apart at the back flow valve. Kubota used those worthless wire hose clamps. They were just pushing everything back together, using same wire hose clamps and praying a lot. Three time they did this.

"The Kid" came out, looked at the situation for about 30 seconds, uttered some very profound verbiage and fixed it. He put on all new hose(that clear nylon fibre reinforced stuff) - a new back flow valve - and those "crush type" hose clamps. You crush a "bump" on the hose clamp and it squeezes it shut a predetermined amount. Good stuff

Why didn't I just fix it myself. Anybody with a Kubota M5040, M6040 or M7040 - FIRST - try to find the rubber portion of the fuel return line with the back flow valve on you tractor. If you are lucky and able to find it - let me know how in the H#LL you are going to get your dainty little hands in there to replace anything. I hope the Kubota engineer that designed that monstrosity, ruptured himself from laughing so hard.

 

[oosik]

OK - the easy fix. I'll try to make this short. My tractor engine has a fuel return line from the fuel pump back to the fuel tank. A common feature on most all diesel engines??? The line is all steel except for a one foot section of rubber hose with a back flow valve. The rubber hose kept coming apart at the back flow valve. Kubota used those worthless wire hose clamps. They were just pushing everything back together, using same wire hose clamps and praying a lot. Three time they did this.

"The Kid" came out, looked at the situation for about 30 seconds, uttered some very profound verbiage and fixed it. He put on all new hose(that clear nylon fibre reinforced stuff) - a new back flow valve - and those "crush type" hose clamps. You crush a "bump" on the hose clamp and it squeezes it shut a predetermined amount. Good stuff

Why didn't I just fix it myself. Anybody with a Kubota M5040, M6040 or M7040 - FIRST - try to find the rubber portion of the fuel return line with the back flow valve on you tractor. If you are lucky and able to find it - let me know how in the H#LL you are going to get your dainty little hands in there to replace anything. I hope the Kubota engineer that designed that monstrosity, ruptured himself from laughing so hard.

 

[LD1]

Sounds like the hose/clamps weren't the problem. But the backflow valve being blocked up. Surprised this stumped the Kubota techs:confused2:

 

[oosik]

No, it was the OEM wire hose clamps. The oringinal and all three back flow valves - even though they are just plastic never were plugged.

Now the rest of the story. So its Dec 24, 2016 and, by golly, we got enough snow so I plowed the driveway. Coming back down the driveway - I smelled diesel fuel. Pulled into the carport stall and diesel fuel being discharged like mad from somewhere deep inside the hoses, etc and very near the firewall. Called the Kubota dealer and they said - we will be out this coming Wed and fix it. Great. Come Monday evening and all day Tuesday it snows like mad. Can't plow the driveway and can't get out with either of my two 4WD vehicles. So from Dec 24, 2016 until March 17,2017 I'm snowed in at the house. My son comes to the end of my driveway with his pickup - I can get out with my ATV - we go grocery shopping once every two weeks.

I did call the Kubota dealer and told him to forget it until Mother Nature melts the snow in my driveway. Can't even find anybody that will come this far out and plow a driveway. Besides, cold day in H#LL when I'm gonna pay to have my driveway plowed

 

[runnyrunnerton]

Wanted to post a reply and the solution. The Problem was two fold. Fuel Temperature and Fuel Delivery. Fuel temp was causing red stop light and engine limp mode. Solution to temperature. Tech showed me how you access the fuel cooler. Remove the two 10mm bolts that hold the front cowl and headlights to the radiator supports. Red Circle. Unclip the three electrical connections, slide the cowl up, remove the two side engine panels, remove the battery, blow the son of a gun out. This really cant be done adequately with the shroud in place. This fuel radiator needs to be relocated higher up and an electric fan placed on it so it can be cleaned out regularly and a 20 minute exercise in plastic removal avoided.

Fuel Cooler Location (Conveniently Behind the Battery)

Solution to clogged intake. The tech told me to remove the fuel line where it enters the water separator bowl and blow low pressure air back through the line toward the tank to clear the screen. This works....temporarily. There is still trash in the tank and it needs to be removed.(Why didn't the guys at the shop remove it? They claimed they did, then it clogged 3 weeks later, I have ONLY filled it with an inline filter since the service) I am working on a solution for this as we speak. I purchased a transfer pump and put a goldenrod filter system in in front of the fill handle to prevent future contamination. My plan is to install a drain plug that is threaded so I can plumb it to a holding tank and do a re-circulation cleaning and using the transfer pump to stir up and debris in the bottom of the tank and wash it out. I figure this is better than removing the tank for a thorough cleaning as I can perform this re circulation numerous times over the life of the tractor without having a bunch of down time as this experience has taught me that it may be impossible to keep these tanks clean as the tolerance for foreign material in the tank as well as the injectors is much lower than anything I have ever experienced. I would assume any kind of gelling of bacterial growth will do me in as well. Might as well have a solution ready to go when that issue presents itself.

Moral of the Story: You cannot be to careful when fueling these things.

 

[DieselBound]

Small openings and screens in the tank outlets is just not a good solution IMO. Seems that that's what filters are for.

My NX5510 manged to, I'm guessing, it's still kind of a mystery, ingest some water into the fuel tank. Engine would fire up and then die after only a couple of seconds: it had been running for a good 30 minutes prior. Kept losing prime. Took me a while to figure this out. I blew back through the line and felt the relief of an obvious blockage. I could only suspect an ice blockage, so i put some Diesel Service in the tank figuring that that should help with any freezing. I've never had this problem on any other piece of equipment: never had to use any additive. This is not the Arctic here! Drained off the bottom of my storage tank and found nothing. BUT... after a while longer the NX popped up a Water-In-Fuel light. I drained out quite a bit of water out of the fuel filter. Again, NEVER have had this issue. Up to all this I'd run through several tankfuls of fuel. Have to wonder whether I didn't get the thing with the fuel filter already "equipped" with water (and some in the tank still?).

I have a water filter on my storage tank. I added it: when I bought it it didn't have one. Before I dispense any fuel into any of my equipment I now circulate fuel back into the tank, in case condensation might be forming IN the hose (post filters).

Nice thing about my B7800 is the clear fuel bowl. I can readily see if there's any water. Never have seen anything (in the seven years I've been operating it).

 

[runnyrunnerton]

Update: I filled the tank 1/2 way with my new transfer pump and filter, ran the transfer pump for about 15 minutes using the stream from the transfer output to agitate around the intake of the tank fuel line to the engine. I had a similar stall out happen about a month later when the tank got low. I blew out the line from the engine side back into the tank, put in 5 gallons of diesel and repeated the transfer pump with filter procedure again. No problems since, even when running the tank down to about a gallon. I had trash in my tank, to small for me to see in the filter, but trash just the same. I will never fuel another diesel engine without a filter. Lesson Learned. Problem Solved. Buy a transfer pump, but the best filter you can afford on it.

 

[Thomas]

Least it wasn't in middle of winter...talk about pain in the butt.

 

[deere36]

My 2015 5065E had a strainer attached to fuel hose fitting at tank, mine was stopped up with gel from "bio diesel", had same symptoms you described. I cleaned it twice then did away with it & replaced with inline filter I could see.