new tractor idea possibly....

[boggen]

not much of an update, holidays, have had the best of me so far.

i am moving away from hydraulic motors. and looking more and more at electrical wheel motors.

the last turbine gear setup just does not work, there is need for fluid movement, and the turbine blade/gear just is not doing what i want it. one of them i locked onto idea, and would not let it go. and hoping i might find away to make it work. by the time i get all the valves worked out, i might as well be looking directly at electrical motor. and skip hyd fluid all together. though, i am still not counting hyd motor completely out. or rather i should make that a hybrid hyd / electrical motor out.

the more i try to use a hyd motor inside the rim of a wheel, the more i am wanting to walk away from them. reasons.... i want to turn into a "control freak" MAHAHAH!!! but seriously, i want as much micro management control possible, in controlling torque, and RPMs of a wheel. at both slow and high MPH (miles per hour) and also wanting high initial starting force (dead stop, and getting things moving)

i am wanting micro management, of how fast a tire spins, not in a complete revolution, but each degree (as in 360 degrees). along with how much torque is applied. per each degree of a revolution. the thought is the more control and more so how fast the control can be achieved. the less compaction, and more traction a agriculture tire could achieve. but catch there is, the more teeth of a gear or rather the more magnets and coils/windings/phases there is, the better. and in that, i am willing to sacrifice, complexity, and efficiency of a electrical motor. for better fine tuned control of torque and RPM per more degrees of control.

other words. many of us been there done that. we be going along plowing snow, or out in the lawn on wet grass on a hill or going through a wet spot on a riding lawn mower or tractor. and wheels begin to slip and spin. i am wanting. to be able to measure, torque being applied, and the RPM's of the tire. and let a computer chip. say HEY. this wheel is starting to slip. lets slightly lower RPM's, or this tire has went down into a hole, and needs to speed up some in RPM's over length of the hole, and just a little bit more torque as wheel comes up and out of the hole / dip in the ground.

as an agricultural tire, R1 or like tire, has large "lugs" or deep tread patterns. once the treads fill up with dirt moving through loose soil. and pressure (from weight of vehicle or tractor) is applied to compact as much dirt up into the treads of tire. you end up at a place, of how much (not sure of the word) hhmmss how much the dirt will stick to other dirt near it. before dirt begins to slide, i suppose i should say molecules of the dirt will slide. and in that cause a tire to "slip" or "spin" within the dirt / mud. while every so slightly and most likely not noticeable to naked eye, that slippage = loss of physical traction. In that, i want ability, to pickup and sense that very small slippage, and as fast as possible adjust RPM's and torque of the wheel. to keep slippage down to a min. if high speed motion video was used. i would imagine a agricultural tractor tire, look like it is "stuttering" as it goes through a field that is going through patches of hard compacted dirt, to loose muddy patches. were the wheel is quickly speeding up, and then almost stopping as it senses a wheel slippage, and tire slows down.

the issue is, the stuttering, will more likely end up be a "vibration" vs a a smooth motion. with hyd motors with no gear or with gear, is sensors and then length of time between changing a valve position to accommodate wheel slippage. and if there is just a little bit of air mixed into the hyd oil. response time is further lengthen. and more likely cause more wheel slippage to happen.

if i go with an electrical motor. with more windings, magnets, etc...i reduce amount of moveable parts that would wear down over time vs hyd motor, in that more likely obtaining a longer life of higher efficiency, of dealing with wheel slippage with electrical motors. response time, between sensor, to changing a RPM's and torque, is only limited by computer chip speed, and length/size of wires, electricity must flow through.

the problem going all electric, is response rate will go higher, but there still will be some "stuttering" / "vibration" if i rely directly on a computer chip. to send electricity to windings / coils in the electrical motor. and in that limited to current age technology of computer chips, in how fast they are to compute information. factors that will always be there. is length and size of wires used and amount of volts/amps/watts used. closer i can get computer chip to windings the better for wheel slippage.

====================
side tracking.....
been hitting some generic online websites that go over electrical and magnets and electrical motors. been to many years to remember generic A/C and D/C courses from collage. so far not real happy of what i have came across yet. so far they all focus on general trouble shooting and maintenance, and not actually building an electrical motor. as in volts/amps/watts, wire size, amount of times a wire loops around, force of a magnet, air gap, etc... granted i know there will be limit for me, when it gets to point of elements of periodic table and what is what for materials. but was hoping to at least get over the basics, of general equations and notations.

with above said, the info i have picked up. most use larger magnets on either inside or outside, and then opposite for windings / coils of wire with smaller magnets. but been thinking more about. controlling magnetic forces on everything. other words. so far, all i been seeing, is magnet forces, being applied directly across from each other. were electricity flows from inside to the outside, or vice vs. i am more looking at were electricity could flow in either direction. or rather make that, control electronic magnets in how strong they are on inside (on shaft) or on the outer casing. i guess, kinda of like a variable speed motor. but i want to adjust RPMs and torque on the fly.

thoughts of a *duh* forget term, of train that runs on magnets. were forces constantly change. along with speeds constantly change.

==========================
side track again....
hit me this morning, of using what is that new stuff "carbon fiber" or what ever it is. for some components for the SSTT. yes it is suppose to be lighter than various metals and stronger in certain aspects. and for traction weight is king, but carbon fiber main frame / body, and then pumping say anti freeze / water mixture through things, to act as dynamic weight perhaps. other words smaller frame in areas might prove much better. and then for make up of weight loss. adding in some sort of fluid that could be pumped back and forth between some containers on the SSTT and implements.

==========================
off to google. to see if i can find some books, or online collage course that i can go at my own pace, or youtube. going over electricity and magnets and more so electrical motors.

 

[boggen]

skim reading through some "previews" on google books. and wondering, why i have not seen, more of a circuit board design electrical wheel motors. i keep seeing large magnets and windings / coils of wire. and i have yet to read or see, anything, were the circuity is built into a hosing / casing of the motor. along with rotate/shaft of a motor. i would imagine magnetic forces that get created to spin a motor itself causes problems, with circuity. but, the routing of wires has me. with so many things having multi layers or lamenting like doings, from insulators to conductors, to computer motherboards/circuit boards, to dipped / bath / spray / painted / laser on or like treatments. is the old age. of using a drill bit, or lathe, or chop saw, or like machining still so caught up in peoples mind. that it is un-thinkable about doing something else? i would imagine cost has a big factor.

i am also having a hard time, with using the entire diameter of the shaft. for the inner magnets or coils/windings. were magnetic force, and/or electrons travel from one side to the other side. during each rotation, and more specifically during each partial rotation of phases. (hope i got correct term there)

=============
shaped electrical magnets, 1 inner ring, 1 outer ring.

for inner ring. not sure if a more solid mass magnetic metal. shaped in a circle. and just enough holes for a shaft and bolt holes, and bearings. or going with a "laminated" circuit board in idea. so north and south poles. can be aligned on opposite sides of the inner ring. other words instead of magnetizing entire inner ring (disc i should say). try to keep magnetic forces through the center down to a min. but perhaps just having a torus shape (donut) shaped ring. might serve better for a electrical wheel motor. i only need to move the poles of the inner shaft, 360 degrees. the ring itself only needs to be of magnetic properties, and not the center of it.

ok how does one "print" coils of wire, at same time some sort of insulator. more to the point, i would think there would need to be 2 "3D printers" or like things. one to add stuff to inside of a ring, and another to add stuff to outside of a disc. errr bad terms, inside of a say 10" to 16" pipe that is 1/2" to 10" inches long. and then do stuff on outside of a pipe.

hhhmmsss. then again.

==================
not enough time at moment for autodesk, but starting to picture, regular gear, that you might find in a transmission of a vehicle or tractor. but the actual teeth, are not actually metal. but the magnetic force of multiple magnets. the top tip of a tooth would be north pole. and lower part between 2 teeth would be south pole. if working with different wave patterns of electrical singles, sine, square, rhombus, A/C current, D/C current. i think a A/C sine wave might work. changing the single / wave pattern, changes the tooth pattern. instead of having 100 teeth, you could have 10 teeth, and anything in between.

the only issue i am having now, is i am not picturing in my mind yet, how these teeth engage each other. between the outside of a pipe vs inside of a pipe.

i do see 100's, if not millions to billions, or more of miniature electric magnets, lining the inside of one pipe, and then same but lining outside of another pipe. one pipe slides into another.

thoughts of explanation come from. a surfer on a surfboard riding a wave in the ocean, or magnetic levitation train. but "skipping" the levitation perhaps.

*rubs chin* how do you determine "magnetic force" tooth shape. if all you have is the "air gap" between the larger pipe, and inner pipe. magnetic force, is not 2D tooth on a gear but 3D shape.

if these 100's to billions of miniature electrical magnets were setup much like breakers in a breaker/fuse panel. you find in everyone homes. and then some sort of control wire. not sure about that. having a central, computer chip. were all these miniature electric magnets wires run back to. am hoping to run all these miniture electrical magnets in parallel with each other. and then some sort of "serialized" command structure.

define things better. the 100's to billions of miniature electrical magnets. would line the 2 pipes, in a grid pattern.
if going with a spreadsheet type definitions of rows and columns.....
a column = cells (magnets) that goes from end to end of pipe.
a row = cells (magnets) that form a ring around the circumference, on inside of larger pipe, and circumference on outside of the smaller pipe.

each row would have its own serialized command structure, and each column would have its own serialized command structure. a computer chip. could then say A1,b2,c3,d4,e5, etc... are on, then 1 micro second later.... a2,b3,c4,d5,e6 is on. or computer chip could change the pattern to.... A1,b1,c1,d1,e1 are on, then 1 micro second later a2,b2,c2,d2,e2 is on. perhaps more torque is needed, so.... a1:a10, b1:b10, c1:c10, d1:10, E1:e10 is on. or what ever some sort of equation/s are used to determine. what is on/off. and then rotate things.

simple circuit setup for on/off for each miniature electric magnet, been trying to picture a A/C single pattern happening but just not seeing it. a D/C pattern on other hand. might serve spreadsheet like function better. were micro volts. hhhmmsss...

it would be nice to run multi layers. much like a motherboard / circuit board. were there are multi layers of insulator material, and on each layer conductor material that forms a ring. and then each electric magnet connections connected to each layer of there respective ring of conductor material. ok lost train of thought, after trying to figure out how to explain.

still not able to remember last train of thought, so on to something else....

column of magnets. how fast each column turns on/off determines RPM's (revolutions per minute). without running 100's of wires back to a central computer chip some place. is there a way, to put simple logic of a sensor and on/off switch to control each column and/or each and every single miniature electric magnet. that is based on some wave pattern of an electrical single or magnetic force? when the wheel hits a bump or something that requires more torque. i do not want a single traveling clear back to a central computer chip then back to turn a given set of extra magnets on. i would prefer, that there be almost a direct cause of volts going up to get a higher magnet force, and once a max limit reached, next set of magnets turn on. to help produce extra torque. and volts slowly going up on this second set of magnets till limit is reached, and if more torque is needed, going on to 3rd set of magnets, and so on and so forth. so in the end there could be 10's to 100's of columns of magnets on at the same time. to provide enough torque to turn the wheel. and as torque is decreased columns of magnets begin to turn off.

in earlier notation, i noted magnetic forces, in forms of 3D teeth. but do i want a as many teeth as there are miniature electrical magnets 100s to billions of little magnetic teeth. or is there a way. to add another layer of logic, to above "column of magnets" to combine the forces of 2 or more miniature magnet teeth together. to form larger magnetic teeth. ok if a1 and a2 were turn on, being there side by side, would form a single larger tooth. but if A1 = on, A2 = off, A3 = on. there would be 2 small magnetic teeth. ok now add in volts and amps into the equation. and pending on volts and amps might have how many magnets that could be turned on in a row that create either bunch of small teeth or a larger single magnetic tooth. and that it may require more "off" magnets one after each other, for a cut off point for beginning and ending of larger magnetic teeth that may get formed.

hhhmmmss A/C sine wave, vs D/C wave. north and south poles. getting way to complicated. and not even sure if magnetic forces, would be high enough, to even pull something off. time to draw some things up, to get things in better perspective on things, and figure out the equations behind it all.

 

[boggen]

been jumping back and forth here and there, as i read over some google searches for electrical motors.

i am tired of seeing "3-phase", and 50 and/or 60khz.

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i am having a hard time with how coils of wire are placed into motor parts. from the DIY'er to higher up companies that i have seen on youtube. as in they build the coil outside and then, push it down into slots. to me, this seems like it would create a "wobble effect" of exact center of the magnetic south or north poles.

i would have thought i would have seen better "threading" techniques employed by now. that coil wire directly into the motor parts. "old age" weaving machines for carpet making and like, meats new age electrical motors.

every time i look at coils even on newer electrical motors. i rarely see a nice clean job of wrapping of the windings. i thought goal was to try and maximize amount of turns around a core. and at same time ensure the core produces the max amount of "flux lines" but if the magnetic south pole or magnetic north pole are in constant state of wobbling. due to core is not at saturation point. *i just do not understand* why not more care is taken into building the coils. so a more even concentration of flux goes into the core. and ensure a better and quicker point of saturation of the core.

the other issue i am having, is wire of coils overlapping and going in different directions and in that canceling out any net benefit, of nearing saturation point of the core magnetic.

seriously, how hard is it to put in some insulation. and then build a sewing machine in idea. that goes up and down. but slightly rotates. back and forth as wire is coiled directly into the motor housing. and being able to get wires to line up nice and smooth against each other. for each layer.

i see all these nice shops with all the fancy hardware, kept nice and clean, and precision control devices. but then i see coils once inserted, flapping all over the place. and wires criss crossing. *i just do not understand i guess*

======================
i am also having a hard time with the ends of coils in induction motors. and use of insulation between coils. and how things are then "sewed" / wrapped together. to keep things form moving. i would think there is something lacking there. and improvement could be made there. to help re-enforce the ends of of magnetic flux. then again. just some newbie...

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having a hard time with the lack there of, of fluid dynamics, or rather the air gap, that is inside the motor. higher RPM's = more friction loss. more friction = more heat being generated. that air in that gap just does not sit there and is motionless. it spins, and creates mutli little air currents. these air currents build up a force that needs to be over come by the motor. if anything the air currents i would imagine while extremely small little eddy wind currents, create possibly some sort of movement on wires and magnets.

=====================
i did come across "worlds most powerful magnet" video on youtube. were there was a magnetic core, then coil, then another magnet that slide over the coil, then another coil, and then another magnet. so on and so fourth. that reduced the physical size of the magnet. but still allowed for amplified magnetic forces to happen.

i am actually interested in concept of amplified magnetic fields. if it meant i could, produce a stronger electromagnet in same amount of space. just wondering if pay off from using generic cheap core magnet cores. would show any benefit. past saturation point of the core. of if a magnetic core, coil, magnetic core around coil. would allow for quicker saturation points. but take up same amount of space or reduced space.

==============
i am also curious in the "flat metal" spirals / coil. that was shown in the video of the "words strongest magnet" vs using regular copper wire in shape of a cylinder. if i could get more turns with flat wire, and have much wider range of voltage that could be used. vs generic regular copper wire or like wire coils.

the video showed sheets of insulation being placed in. between discs of flat sheets of metal. that formed a coil. with flat sheet coil, it would be fairly easy, to create flat sheet of coil with no insulation on it. then create same exact coil but with an insulatator material. and slide the 2 coils together.

flat sheet coil = a kids toy "slinky"
1 slinky = copper or like, 1 slinky = insulator material. and just slide them together. to create an insulated flat sheet coil.

====================
i am having a hard time with all the old explanation of electrical magnets and 2D representations i have been seeing. were is the 3D version... and explanation...

====================
i am also having a hard time with only control 3 phases, on the inside or outside. but control both magnetic strengths on the rotor and stator. i would assume being able to finely tune magnetic flux on both sides. would produce a better finite control on initially starting a motor with load on it. and then being able to fine tune torque and RPM's through out the torque and RPM limits of the motor. if not changing the graph of power used, frequency used, torque amount, and RPM's.

and to add to it, the phases that the the motor uses. everyone wants to keep simple hookup, and keep the motor control computer chip not very complex. but the whole idea of a motor control computer chip. is to allow complex operations. i just do not understand i guess.

==========
i guess i am expected to see more computer controlled setups. were we has humans, build machines, that mass produce smaller machines.

al'righty then, newbie, back at googling to learn more about magnetic fields. hopefully be able to come across some examples of shape of magnetic, compared to fields it produces.

 

[boggen]

flat coil creation.... been trying to think of ways to actually make it....

i am pretty sure i can not rely on a drill bit or router bit. to drill into end of a pipe to make the coil. slightest dull blade, or imperfection, would most likely damage the coil. and create a bunch of waste.

i thought about using a lathe. and having a computer controlled tool slowly move across a pipe or like. but i am a dummy when it comes to laser cutting metal. more so when i will most likely want something as thin as possible. perhaps down into the 1/16 of an inch to 1/50 of an inch thickness. perhaps even thinner than that. for how thick the flat metal coil is.

i thought about injection molding. but i am unsure about this idea. again talking 1/16" to 1/50" thickness. if not thinner. and at that thickness, would a mold be able to hold up to any sort of pressure during the injection process. before destroying the mold.

i thought about some sort of way to bring metal up to liquid form. perhaps kinda like soldering. and just heating up end of a rod of metal. and as the laser melts the metal. using a funnel and computer controlled machine. that slowly spins. some sort of "mold former" that has a built in magnet that helps control thickness. perhaps enclosing entire thing into a pressure container. so density of the liquid metal. maintains higher densities. or perhaps some sort of vibration applied to machine to help reduce any sort of air bubbles or impurities. i don't so out of my league at this point.

the goal is to create or machine or build, the coil. at exact spacing or close to as possible. so when finished there is no need to compress, or extend the coil. so that there is little to no "rippling" effects. within the metal coil.



==================
the same thing goes for the flat sheet coil, that would become insulator. between the turns of the metal coil.

the insulator coil, i would think be much easier to produce. due to temperatures would be less, along with possibly pressure needed for say an injection mold machine.

i suppose if flat sheet coil was produced first. then coil could be placed into some sort of "nut" for lack of better words. to hold each turn at wanted distance. and then, entire coil dipped into some sort of liquid insulator. and then pulled out to let dry / harden. but i would imagine problems would range from not being able to predict full penetration of the insulation in middle of the flat sheet turns. result = short circuiting coil.

if insulator coil was made just like the metal coil. the 2 coils would easily slip together. forming a single solid coil. and only the outside diameter and inside diameter. would need insulator shape of a pipe. to full insulate the flat sheet metal wire coil.

====================
another issue with flat sheet metal coils. is not wanting a perfect circle / pipe shape coil. but oval shape coils. or even square shape coils. any type of physical machining process, (drilling, cutting, lathe, etc...) would most likely create a good amount of waste, but more to the point. extremely hard to maintain thickness wanted, without destroying the coil.

 

[boggen]

and the 3rd post of today....



this was quickly created a week or so ago. and never got around to posting it. needless to say, this idea, will most likely get scrapped.....

72 magnets per row for outside ring.
6 rows
total of 432 magnets

i did not do math for the inner ring of magnets. but in reality there would be less per row. but in attempt to quickly see it, 72 magnets per row, 6 rows, for total of 432 magnets on inner ring.

magnets if memory serves me are 1/2" long, by .3 or .5 inches in diameter.

the goal of this motor. was looking at creating magnetic teeth, much like teeth on regular gears. but in this case the teeth are invisible magnetic teeth. and use of either DC or AC current. at different frequencies, at different volts. would either enlarge or reduce the teeth on both rings, different phases would act like "transmissions" and change gear ratios. different patterns of what magnets turn on/off would also act as different gearing per say.

thought was to build a circuit board directly into A and D ring. main purpose of circuit board was routing of wires / currents. and install a resister here, a little switch there, but then run what would be needed back to a central computer chip.

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with above, i am severely lacking on concept i guess of old age electrical motors. and in that how magnetic fields errr flux is dealt with. and how it causes either rotation in a motor or produce of electricity in a generator / alternator.

i am still assuming the most flux lines or what was it termed "atomic current lines" come out of north and south pole. vs laying magnetic on its side, and dealing with flux lines between the north and south pole. but the shape of the eletrco magnet, and coil around the given shape. is tossing me through a loop still. i need some better 3D representations to better grasp magnetic fields and shapes and coils.

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this was also done sometime last week, below was an attempt to better visualize different multi phases.
it took a old video back in mid 1900's on youtube, that went over DC and AC generators. for the light bulb in my head to turn on, to better understand electrical phases.



while 3 phases are sounding good. i am still stuck on wanting more phases. it is getting past the 360 joint (rotatory joint). that allows rotation of the wheels, for turning. and then getting over a second 360 joint, if i want to control all magnets, that will most likely make or break more than 3 phases. of actual running electrical wire, to each electrical motor.

more phases = less volts per wire = smaller size wire. but more smaller size wires. there is still going to need to be some sort of brushes or like needed to get through 360 joints (rotatory joints). less volts and less amps. less likely sparks would happen. *growns* thinking back to years ago, and having one them kids race tracks. were cars or even trains ran on couple small wires protruding from a track and watching the sparks fly. those sparks have me worried, more so when SSTT (sideway snake train tractor), would most likely need to be classified, as needing explosion proof connections. due to all the chemicals that go with farming. but if i drop volts and amps down lower, and perhaps go with larger brushes, i might be able to reduce sparks down to very min amount. *DOH* just do not know.

 

[boggen]

on a search for....

--software dealing with magnets and coils and showing various aspects in 3D.
--a PCB (programmable circuit board) that allows for PCB to be made in shape of a pipe.
--how to "coil" wire / path ways, during creation of a PCB or microchip creation, to create electric magnet.

===========
looking for information for "solid state" circuitry, that could be put into a PCB, to cancel out hopefully magnetic forces. at same time resist vibrations and shocks, an electrical wheel hub motor might see.

been slowly digging into "old age" micro chips, and how they were made 5 to 20 years ago. and see if anything might be useful there, for PCB. i do need current age micro chip technology, but perhaps a few years old or older.

looking at some DIY PCB boards on youtube, and use of light, various liquids, various sheets of material during process of PCB boards and computer chips for that matter. and thinking it might be possible for pipe shape PCB board. just not sure about multi layer PCB and routing pathways / wires through a given layer to another.

some extra things that caught my eye, is hall array *hope i got correct term* were north pole points..... right, up, left, down, right, up, left, down.... repeats

 

[Ken]

Ryan today was looking at NASA Class room on t.v. since to cool to be outside.
They were showing a concept design of a mobile hauler that looked like a spider . thought of your design of elec. driven wheels and able to move in any direction or crawl onto flat bed trailer for hauling.
could haul a school bus.
go over rough ground or level while keeping its platform level.
Might dig around for the info. and watch to get some ideas .
Keep thinking Edison did with a lot of others brains for picking.
ken

 

[boggen]

i need to find a software that deals with PCB (programmable circuit boards) preferably something that can handle a 3D shape....
a software package that can model / simulate 3D magnetic fields / flux / lines.

==================

past week, been searching and reading, and then scribbling in autodesk inventor. and not making much head way. to many statements of "oh this will do this awesome!" but does not actual give specs behind it. or "this type of motor is normally used for this or that only", then do not branch out to cover larger HP (horse power) motors.

way to many motors are "air cooled" by a fan or heat sink fins, and not directly cooled via water/antifreeze or like liquid cooling.

magnets and coils, and shapes for explanation on internet are extremely basic shapes. and do not get much past that. granted some excellent stuff out there for "teaching/learning" but does not get much past the basics.

i am getting errrieeee of what i might expect from 3D modeling software that can simulate magnetic flux / magnetic flux lines. and more to the point how a program might calculate the magnets strength and then show it. granted i have not directly went through any equations out there yet. but i am noticing a "difference" in pictures folks have displayed on the internet.

====================
as far as electrical wheel hub motors for the SSTT. i have went through this list a few times, trying to narrow things down, but for what ever reason the list gets longer. so one more time from scratch...

there is no order to any of this, it is more of a brain storming session in attempt to narrow down and attempt to give me better idea of what i want/need. of a wheel hub motor and tire setup.

1--coolant fluid (water/antifreeze) is required. prefer fluid is routed through rotor and stator to reduce overall heat better, vs just tossing on a water jacket around pump.

2--sending power to both rotor and stator. instead of just relying on permanent magnets on rotor or stator, and then the other getting electric magnets. going with electric magnets on both rotor and stator.

3--i am jumping back and forth of using "brushes" or going with basically a mini generator. to get power between rotor and stator. though not completely sure on using coils and magnets it is more of no attempts yet made to draw things out and think of circuitry needed to pull things off.

4--emergency brakes / parking brakes, using most likely friction discs, some were along line read something about being able to use antifreeze/water mixture instead of oil possibly to cool the brake friction discs. thought honestly do not remember the fluid type.

5--was thinking of electrical actuator for applying brakes, with air pressure for "emergency braking" and fail safe braking.

6--seriously looking at, say 60 to 85 MPH top speed for a 24" diameter wheel. but reality if i can get 40 MPH i would be happy without use of any gears, min top speed of say 25 MPH, would be acceptable but higher the better.

7--on the low end of MPH. "creeper gear" in sense of barely inching across the ground. along with initial stating torque needed from a dead stop. would like to be extremely high. and no need to achieve to certain RPM's to obtain enough torque to get the wheels to loose traction. were tires would be given the highest chance of maintaining traction.

8--wanting "force feed back" built into circuitry / computer chip control per each wheel motor. to speed up / slow down each and every motor / wheel as it moves over rough ground (bumps and like) to reduce vibration and shocks and at same time hopefully compaction, and achieve a higher traction ability.

9--fault tolerance, as in 4 plus phases feeding a electrical motor. so if one wire has problems feeding to electrical motor the other wires feeding it, should be able to keep motor going, but at reduced ability.

10--regenerative braking. or rather turning electrical motor into a generator, and using magnetic forces to act like a brake. though i am not real big on "huge batter" arrays for SSTT.

11--looking at regular combustion like engine. (gas, diesel, or like fuel) that runs a generator head. and it all fits up on the SSTT.

12--i am wanting to stay away from mechanical gearing as much as possible. and stay with direct drive. of a wheel. meaning no direct gear changing taken place between electrical motors RPM and tire RPM's.

13--re-hitting back on force feed back, no cameras, or external sensors can be used in the force feed back to control extremely small increases or decreases of RPM's to get over bumps. exception being GPS or like location information. and sensors built into circuits / computer chip to identify differences in magnetic forces or volts and amps or like.

14--i would like to achieve highest possible incremental adjustments to force feed back. if 360 degrees if a full rotation, then 0.001 degrees or much greater (as in 0.000001 degrees) in incremental adjustments in degrees of rotation per second would be wanted.

15--looking at idea of use of magnetic bearings, with a backup of regular mechanical bearings (ball bearings and like), though i am not completely confident there would be enough space to add individual magnets / coils to achieve this. and more looking at using individual magnets/coils built into rotor and stator, to produce RPMs and torque and at same time perhaps act as a magnetic bearing. i am more interested in magnetic bearings, to perhaps allow higher RPM's without destroying regular bearings, to... possibly allow for a cushion for rough ground. though the overall vibrations of such doings i am still un-easy about.

16--i been trying best in scribbles of autodesk inventor to try and reduce overall sizes of things. but i do believe i am still in mind frame of "electrical cars" type of mind trying to reduce weight at each wheel. vs more of a mind frame for tractors. were weight is being placed low creating low COG (center of gravity), and weight of motor would act like filling of tires with a fluid.

17--re-hitting back on cooling of motor with water/antifreeze like fluid, and to the point, the magnets and coils will be in direct contact of the rim or rather i should state the magnets and coils and circuitry will form the rim the tire fixes to. this direct path, will cause heat to go into the air that is inside the tire. ((air heats up, it expands, if air is in enclosed space, air pressure goes up)), ((if the same air cools, it reduces its volume, and if in an enclosed space, air pressure drops)), because of this, i am seriously considering, running an "secondary air pump" (first air pump = air to emergency brakes), that can be used to put air into all tires. and controlled via values. were valves are located up on the SSTT and an air hose is ran down to each tire.

18--going with above, considering placing a "backup valve" near air stem for each tire/tube. on each air stem. to act as a backup, but also, reduce air pressure shocks and vibrations, going back through all the air hose between air stem and valves up on the SSTT. other words a lot of seals air would need to pass through, and wanting to try and reduce things that would wear them seals out. and reduce internal leakage of air. ALSO, placing air valve down low, should allow for some sort of way to "purge" moisture / water build up. that should collect in lowest areas in the system (near tire stem valves).

19--for the water/antifreeze mixture of fluid for cooling the electrical motors. the valving i am considering just placing up on the SSTT. and no valving at each electrical motor. air bubbles would collect in highest area, and purging air should be easier to do up on the SSTT. and placing valves up on SSTT for coolant fluid should free up some much needed space for electrical motor and brakes at each tire.

20--i am seriously considering a PCB (programmable circuit board) and computer chip per wheel hub electrical motor. but i am more interested in a hybrid PCB and computer chip. were there are more individual computer chips built directly into a PCB. and then perhaps a master computer chip, for master functions, and sending / receiving singles, to computer up on the SSTT.

21--magnetic shielding for PCB and computer chips, the small amount i have found on internet. should be fairly easy to implement.

22--if i am reading info i found on internet, solid state switches, diodes (check valves for electricty) and other doings, are not effected by magnetic forces directly, but wiring is. this should help reduce magnetic interference of the PCB and computer chips, and at same time bring up life span of everything.

23--major issue of PCB and computer chips is heat, along with electrical motor itself. if ya anyway a computer geek, and built your own computer from scratch and individual components. then ya should be familiar with heat sinks, heat sinks with fans, and have idea of water cooling. and in that i am thinking of possibly running "coolant lines / passage ways", across PCB and computer chips, as well through magnets and coils of wire. the problem is there may need to be easily replaced valves to control direction and amount of were coolant fluid flows. and insuring PCB and computer chips can withstand a higher amount of "max temperature"

24--i have consider the possibility of using the "tire itself" as a radiator, or rather operating kinda like a radiant heating in a floor, were water is heated up and sent through pipes / hoses that are placed into the floor. but in this case the electrical motor and computer chips would heat the coolant fluid, that would then, be pumped in between say 2 tire tubes, that had passage ways built in between them, that would route the water through the tube. and let heat be expelled through tires themselves. the issue being this would require, ability to change air tire pressure on the fly, so tire maintains proper air pressure for a given situation. also the tire material (rubber) would need to withstand a certain temperature.

25--i have also consider possibility of just mounting an air fan or 2, inside of the tire, fixed to the outside diameter of the rim. to simply help circulate air inside the tire. to help dissipate heat. (remember that rim of tire, will actually be part of the electrical motor (magnets / coils)

26--i am not real keen on filling tires up with a fluid, or less tires can be completely filled up with a fluid an zero air inside the tire, or air amount kept to extreme min amount. if water is sloshing around inside tire, that sloshing = vibrations, vibrations = compaction of soil, vibrations could also possibly = less traction. if tires are filled up completely with fluid, then perhaps doing same thing as 25, but to circulate the fluid in the tire, to provide better cooling of electrical motor.

27--this remark is due to filling tires up with fluid an adding more weight, due to so much weight at each wheel hub motor. the wanting of a high degree of force feed back. is an attempt to both control and remove vibrations coming from the electrical motor, and the tire simply rolling over the ground.

28--i am not real keen on making a complete electrical tractor. were only energy source or primary source of power is from batteries. tractors run way to long at a single length of time. and charging of batteries would cause to much time, and keep farmers out of fields the few days of the year that might be termed the best days to be out in a field to plant or harvest a crop. with that, i am not to keen on regenerative braking. were trying to store the electricity created, by using electrical motors to cause SSTT to slow down and come to a stop. and storing that electricity in massive amounts of batteries. with that. i am more interested in basically electrical heaters position some place up on the SSTT. that can be used to help use up electricity created during braking. my only issue with this, is to much heat, and tons of dust that is flammable, and suddenly turning the SSTT into a fire ball going through field or down the road. on other hand weight of batteries might serve as an added bonus to obtain weight for the SSTT, to obtain better traction. ((ending here for now, due to wanting to focus more on wheel hub motors))

29--unknown at this point between, single to multi pancake motors, to A/C or D/C electricity, to induction motors, to other types of terms folks have placed on electrical motors. what i have seen so far. seems more than anything, marketing departments over the years, have placed terms on things. along with way in attempt to classify how motors are built. (looks agitated) and anything that is different is called a hybrid. vs just stating numbers and calculations or simulated or actual test results.

30--having some issues of using a 24" diameter 12" wide tire and the support structure that attaches wheel hub motor and tire to the SSTT. i want as much clearance as possible. so tires can sink further down into mud. before things start dragging on the ground. and then needing room to run multi hoses and wires down to each wheel hub motor and tire. with that i am been considering a "caster wheel" support structure possibly. were there is a support structure on each side of the tire. thinking is, i could route what would be needed to "rotor" on one side, then what would be needed for wires/hoses to "stator" on the other side. and using the angle style bracket of a "caster wheel" to help maintain structural support. and in that considering possibility of going with a larger width tire or ability to change widths of tires. and at same time perhaps, once tire width gets X amount wider, being able to double up electrical motors inside of the tire or like. granted this would dramatically change how tires attach to the SSTT and what tire options there would be for the SSTT.

31--PCB (programmable circuit board) if i can print stuff out using an inject printer, then i should be able to create pipe shaped PCB boards with ease. to allow for better integration of PCB and coils and sensors and controls built directly into the electrical motor. the major issue is if someone fails, it may mean motor itself is junk. due to no real way to easily repair something. more so with the tightly integration of coolant hoses / passage ways, coils, magnets, etc...

32--re-hitting on type of electrical motor used for the wheel hub motor. if i get term correct "cogging" or rather how fast phases rotate around the rotor or stator and how fast the other (stator / rotor) tries to speed up / slow down as it meats each phase. the cogging effect would be in idea the "force feed back" and trying to eliminate cogging as much as possible. at same time controlling phases for a controlled speed up or slow down of cogging.

33--at one time i wanted to include an air pump and coolant fluid pump built directly into the wheel hub motor and tire. but extra space required for the pumps including valving, vs placing a large more beefer air pump and coolant fluid pump up on the SSTT won out. the con is extra wires / hoses that would need to be ran between SSTT main body and down to each wheel hub motor / tire. most of placing larger beefer coolant motor up on the SST main body, has to do with heat and guaranteeing amount of cooling could happen at each wheel hub motor. and for the air pump, insuring that air can be obtained and pushed into a tire, or let out of a tire. (if tire is down in mud/water, what would prevent mud/water being pumped into tire. hence placing air pump up on SSTT, were main body would for sure be above the water / mud.

34--see if i hit on everything....
--coolant for electrical motor, coolant for braking, coolant for PCB (programable circuit boards), coolant for computer chips, coolant inside tires, coolant up on SSTT
--friction disc brakes with electrical engage, with comprssed air for emergency brake / parking brake, cooling of braking.
--changing air pressure in tires, along with valve locations,
--force feed back, and degree of force feed back abilty, torque, RPM's, MPH.
--sending power to both rotor and stator of the wheel hub motor. multi phases of power, with backup phases of power
--trying to reduce vibrations, via force feed back / cogging.
--placing of air and coolant pumps and roating of air and coolant lines.

=================
=================
=================
seals for coolant fluid and air *ughs* this alone most likely going to make or brake the overall wants / doings above. seals will need to withstand large shock forces, high pressures, high temperatures, and also handle low shocks, low pressures, and low temperatures. along with high/low RPM's. (revolutions per minute)

seals will also need to be able to handle any sort of external pressures. this also extends to gaskets and 0-rings and like doings.

a simple bolt going through multi layers could have a dramatic effect on everything and how seals are used.

=============

the strength of materials used, and G forces and shock loads and vibrations along with how much a given material type expands / contracts with heating, could be limiting factor on top RPM's.

with above, looking more at getting away from the more common "cutting, drilling, sanding, etc..." to shape metals and materials, and more towards other ways of manufacturing, that might provide a higher level of compaction. and along them lines, getting away from idea of simply repairing or replacing a single item / component, with more towards replacing a larger piece containing multi items/components.

=================

have gotten extremely lazy, posting links / pictures from sites i have found that had good info. below just some random links.

Magnetic Levitation Train 1
Halbach demystified « MyOwnHybrid
LaunchPoint Technologies Announces New High Efficiency, High Power Density, Halbach Array Electric Motor
Miniaturized Halbach magnet array (B.Sc./M.Sc.) — Imteksimulation


long boring links i never really read through yet.
http://myownhybrid.files.wordpress....-a-permanent-magnet-machine-in-a-flywheel.pdf


starts at about 3.00 minutes. A/C going through coil with iron bar in middle. then a metal ring, that is wrapped many times with wire around it. and placing it over, causes light bulb to light up.
Faraday's Law - YouTube
so can i use this simple setup to power all coils on both rotor and stator of an electrical motor. so i can more directly change magnetic forces that are producing RPM's and torque. and when using electric motor as a generator, to cause braking action of wheel. will this allow more accurate braking response.

===========
to lazy at moment to go through all my scribbles of last week, in autodesk inventor and post them to this thread. to much learning and trying to comprehend vs anything. may wait post 280 comes around to post scribbles of pictures/diagrams.

 

[boggen]

3rd post of today, counting ken's post...

Ryan today was looking at NASA Class room on t.v. since to cool to be outside.
They were showing a concept design of a mobile hauler that looked like a spider . thought of your design of elec. driven wheels and able to move in any direction or crawl onto flat bed trailer for hauling.
could haul a school bus.
go over rough ground or level while keeping its platform level.
Might dig around for the info. and watch to get some ideas .
Keep thinking Edison did with a lot of others brains for picking.
ken

hopefully i got the spider ya talking about below?

picture is from...
The Week in Pictures | Sept. 13-19, 2010 - Framework - Photos and Video - Visual Storytelling from the Los Angeles Times

pretty interesting little critter, nice use of all the joints, almost looks like it is built for "rock climbing" or forestry work and getting around logs and ditches and ravines. and more to the point, it looks like all the legs/wheels fold up into a compact package. never really thought about legs folding up into another leg. *smiles happily*

picture is from....
NASA - Mars Science Lab: The Challenge of Complexity

not really happy with the small size support structure and more so the joints. i think it would be way to flimsy. on other hand. there are 4 sets of wheels, 2 individual wheels, and then 2 sets of 2 wheels. the 2 sets of 2 wheels has me more along of think of "rubber tracks" and ability to fold things away for transport.

pictures from...
Photo Essay: My Summer at JPL - JPL Education - NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory

looks cool! but having hard time with motor torque motor rpms, and then lifting capacity of all the joints, and shock loading and vibration. and then time to get a task done. a task on another planet could take days or months, a farm tractor is down to hours perhaps minutes even.

picture from....
New NASA Lunar Rover « All Things News

starting to look more like SSTT i had in mind.... as far as wheels are setup.

picture from....
Tires Kicked on the New NASA Rover "Moon Buggy"

really do not care for the low "profile" support structure that the tires connect to. but...

picture from....
First look at the NASA Mars Curiosity Rover |Doobybrain.com

has some other close up pictures of various things of the rovor

picture from....NASA Rover: Athlete | Photo 02 | NowPublic Photo Archives

now this looks like something! nice beefy supports. going to assume nice size electrical motors in the joints. looks like the entire rim of the wheels is used up with electrical motor.

=============
in my last previous post. i noted about converting over to a "caster wheel" design structure that holds the wheel and hub motor to the SSTT. to both reduce size of support structure and to run hoses and wires to both stator and rotor of the electrical motor. vs only using a single side mounting point and try and route the hoses and wires to and from both rotor and stator of electrical motor. i think i am going to pretty head strong staying with a caster wheel design or like design style.

i am just not so sure about the "multi joints" of the spider vehicle. it would surely allow for tires to go down deep into mud and get them out of the mud, but the need to just keep on going through mud, vs stopping, and letting machine walk out of mud, i don't know. caster wheel design, structure support for wheels, brings up a different designs for everything. that i really never got much into with exception for "tracks" vs tires. and even then i really did not get much into it for transport wheels. hhmmsss....

over past week, there been a few different moments were frustration was setting in, and thought about, having the SSTT just roll up on a flat bed trailer, for transportation. but was hoping to avoid need for a trailer. with exception of perhaps transporting new equipment clear across the US / around the world (kinda of a 1 time transportation thing).

==================
thanks again ken! keep a posting!

 

[Ken]

Ryan you got the pictures I was watching. when stuck in mud could raise out the wheel shake the mud off like a dog and continue moving.
Thought this would give you a few ideas of the concept.
enjoy reading really would like to see a prototype.
ken

 

[boggen]

and now on mom's computer, to order a new hard drive, primary hard drive went out couple hours after posting last post yesterday. other hard drives are formatted in a different way, that will not allow me to reinstall windows on the spares without wiping everything out. (not about to loose all the data on other hard drives) will be waiting for new hard drive to show up. *frowns* this is going to set me back a few days. i hate, having to reinstall all the software, and updates, and then trying to get all the settings back to were i like them. just hope i can get the drive that failed partially running again, to retrieve all the SSTT files off of it !! tried to use a sata to usb external hard drive enclosure and another sata to usb quick connect on mom's computer, but it is not looking good. hoping direct connection back to actual computer motherboard on my computer might allow me to get files off of it. *crossing fingers*

 

[boggen]

Ryan you got the pictures I was watching. when stuck in mud could raise out the wheel shake the mud off like a dog and continue moving.
Thought this would give you a few ideas of the concept.
enjoy reading really would like to see a prototype.
ken

here here, on wanting to see a prototype. though at moment, i am kinda in the mud mess of things. every time i think things are going to pan out good, everything ends up changing. not sure if it is for the good or the bad. way to many pro's con's.

*waves* the computer gave me some vacation days, off to do other things.

 

[boggen]

have mom's laptop, figure i best have something, normally reinstalling operating system on new hard drive means, no time to prep for drivers and like. and going to need a way to download and put onto a USB drive. if need arises....

going through future trends for farming on internet... and having a hard time with what i been seeing and reading...

i always come across small size robots out in fields. and i have a hard time with this. more so when trying to get into wet muddy areas of a field. i did see some good comments of smaller size width and length tractors/implements. but normally attached to same comments, is someone setting at home in there chair. this really does not make much sense to me.

for the SSTT. i think i am more looking at a physical enclosed trailer / motor home type thing. that can be pulled behind a full size truck with 5th wheel connection. perhaps a trailer that folds out for a larger area inside the trailer. inside, having a 2 command centers.

command centers, acting like "remote cabs" with a bunch of computer monitors surrounding a chair. and live feeds from cameras and sensors on the SSTT get feed back and displayed on the computer monitors. and a drive is able switch and move camera feeds and sensor reading data readouts around. and control various SSTTs from a central point.

the trailer would include, fridge, toilet, a/c, heating, generator, telescopic antenna perhaps something like what new station vans have. for getting live feeds back to the news station command base. around the outside perhaps area for tool box location, areas to store some spare parts, and oils and fuel, along with various liquids to clean and deal with sensors on the SSTT. perhaps location to store some batteries and remote antenna repeater. to extend range of everything.

the truck pulling the trailer, so trailer can be dropped off, and truck take off across the field after a SSTT that is having problems, with another antenna on it, to extend range, and some generic laptop in the truck. to take control of a SSTT. that is having problems. perhaps some sort of long "pole" on front of truck. is if SSTT is going out of control. truck can drive up behind it. and crash pole into a "emergency stop button"

the goal of truck/trailer combo. is being able to command and control multi SSTT (side ways snake train tractors), make it tilling, and trying to get as much done as fast as possible. or say harvesting unit, and controlling chase grain wagons. and when it is time to move everything down the road to another field. it would be a ready set go. or perhaps a small crew of folks driving back and forth. as one field finishes. SSTT is driven off, letting another SSTT stay around to finish things up.


===========================
i am having a hard time with "plan ahead" thinking. i see all these dozers with laser tracking, and then scarpers and motor graders with laser guidance. and then even see all these tractors and implements with GPS navigation and computer plotted. paths to follow. but i am not seeing much, of controlled plowing / discing / etc... and combined with erosion problems, and shaping of the fields. and more to the point sensors at the plows and discs, and chisels and other ground engagement doings. all tied up with satellite maps, and air plane photos, and GPS, and etc.. for accurate elevation within the field.

i mean really, how hard would it be to do a "plan ahead" and let say a bottom plow drop a couple more inches down in a given area. and another plow right beside drop only inch more down. and reshape a field. perhaps make an extra pass or 2 every couple years. or better yet let the farmer choose, to see how much they want to reshape a field. and remove high spots and fill in low spots, and deal with drainage better. i mean really does a bottom plow, or a set of discs. need to be locked together as one large solid mass.

i am still stuck on wanting to lift dirt up off the ground. and feeding the dirt through various sensors and crumbles and what not to brake it up to a certain point and then controlled layering and compaction. as dirt falls back down. but i am having a hard time with current "technology"

speaking of current technology, farming is lagging behind in the times. i am not seeing more "3D gaming" built into things. at most i am seeing PDA's and cellphones. and a bunch of touch screen displays. this goes to "manuals" and part lists. to also repairing a tractor. i honestly would like to see a full 3D game like environment. i can open up on my laptop. act like 1st person or 3rd person view. and walk around a 3D model of a tractor and implement. and click or touch screen to zoom in on a problem. click bolts. and a button to remove say a shield or a tire. and zoom in the area and click again to take something apart. with perhaps a link to a youtube video. or a link to some webpage that gives more detail / specs

when it comes to driving more so remote controlled. or heck even in current age full decked out cabs. being able to get past 2D diagrams. and going with 3D diagrams and pictures. ok i gotta end on that note, i am not up to par on full current age cabs.

on different note, is there an actual third party per say collective body, that attempts to control standards of various technology for farming? i mean all this do-hickeys, for controlled driving, and planting and harvesting, and data sets for a given tractor or implement. that might be obtainable from a manufacture. and these data sets be given out, to let the run of the mil computer programmer, to use at there wants. and perhaps come up with there latest and greatest little program that does this or that...

i mean come on, all these sensors out there and different type of sensors. for various tractors and implements. and trying to database everything. so when it comes to the next thing in the field, tilling, planting, harvesting, and then the next tilling. is there a common database structure and software package that is common or could be possibly common across multi manufactures. as say a standard to go by.

i mean i am really looking at a trailer as a cab for the SSTT. and ability to house some computers. with raid array of hard drives. to database millions of readings from sensors and location data. that could be possibly compared / computed, every time out in the same field. granted once cellphones and the towers get better and wider area of coverage is better in years to come. data storage will most likely be offset. to some place else. but... until then.... it is not that expensive to get an array of hard drives and computer setup as a pure database machine, that could store a huge amount of data. that might come down, to tract every single location a seed is planted, and then come harvest time, capturing how much that specific seed produced. and when it comes to next tilling or fertilizer planting. reading data from the last seed and what that seed grew into and produced... perhaps during tilling a map based on sensor readings of all the dirt could be had, that might show steaks and areas or concentrations of various chemical makeup of things. that might control fertilizer better, or perhaps another pass over an area to spread the soil make up out better.

=================
but before getting to above, and good portion why i started this thread.... and working my way through for the SSTT. is to remove the large cab and tractor that is out in front of the implement. and combine everything into a single packaged unit. and moving the cab away from the tractor/implement. either by a pull vehicle (truck) out in front just there to make sure SSTT does not go out of hand. or truck is driving behind SSTT in case something goes wrong. or expanding on it. and going with a dedicated trailer that can be pulled from field to field. and can have more space than a cab could ever have, for camera feeds and sensor readings from multi tractors/implements. and be able to feed data from last tilling/planting/harvesting back to the multi tractors/implements. for even better finite precision control.

===================

arghs.... always need for a driver more so going down the road.... still not happy. a well still plenty of time to figure that out. *groans*

time for some old school games. of getting a dogs, cats, mice across a river and only using a single boat that can only handle what is it 2 or 3 animals at one time. and getting them across the river, without the dog eating the cat, or the cat eating the mice.

lets say 2 people.... see far things could go...for tilling

person A, drives truck with trailer = (trailer = wireless remote cab for SSTT)
person B, drives truck that pulls a single SSTT to another field.

person A, setups up trailer, and gets ready to work.
person B, unhooks SSTT, and takes off to do something else.

person A, calls person B, to say, be here in 15....

person B, hooks up to SSTT, and pulls SSTT to another field.
person A, packs trailer up and pulls off to the other field.

====================
lets try it with 2 SSTT and one trailer....for tilling.

person A, drives truck with trailer to field and sets up.
person B, gets in his truck and hooks up to SSTT 1 and drives to field and unhooks.
person A, begins working SST 1 while person B goes back and hooks up SSTT 2 and brings to field.
person B, unhooks at field, and person A, takes over both SSTT to control them.
person B, looks up how long to move SSTT 1 from current field to next field. and decides to wait 30 minutes.
person B goes into trailer to the second commend center and takes over SSTT 1. (field not finished) and hooks up to truck.
person B drives SSTT 1 over to next field, while person A runs SSTT 2 to finish out the field.
person B gets back, just as person A finish up a field and packing up trailer to move on to next field.

person A with trialer goes to next field with person B.
person B unhooks.
person A sets up trailer and takes command of both SSTT
person B looks up time between moving to next field and it will be a couple hours. so person B takes off. but before doing so, cooks something up, and takes a crap, just to leave a lingering smell in the trailer.

================
ok what about harvesting and controlling a SSTT setup as a harvester, and then a semi truck / trailer that can reasonable park or drive up next to field.

so wireless remote cab trailer, that is pulled by a truck...
a SSTT that is pulled by a truck.
and a semi truck/trailer to deal with with the grain or silage or like.

time to end here for now.... posting before i loose everything.

 

[boggen]

*frowns* the hard drive went, and took all the previous files i had for the SSTT with it. along with majority of all my other personal documents and notes.

autodesk inventor pro 2013. license came up as being activated to many times (the key that is). and going through emails with autodesk to hopefully get it all straightened out. till then on a 30 day trail thing.

the day after, Hard drive went, got a call for a trail for a electric magnetic software. that works with autodesk. will need to get wheels rolling with that, once autodesk license gets worked out.

================
with old gone, might as well start from scratch. from ground up one more time. *nothing new there*.

with "ken" recent posts to thread, and the nasa spider looking rovor. been quickly sketching things out. and trying to get my mind around it all once again. hopefully all will go well, and get some quick sketch models up and going over the next or 2.

=====================
well i take that back, ended up with a old secondary LCD display, and tossed in another video card. to run dual monitors for computer. and i do believe, i am running into some video card driver conflicts.

=====================
now one more redo, of them rovor wheels. will it be... electrical motor, with, water/anti freeze mix for cooling motor, and air for emergency brakes, and possibly adjust air pressure of tires???
and will i stay with pure electrical for rotation and linkages... do not know. kinda skiddish of electrical motor trying to hold a few thousand pounds. rotation is one thing. but holding everything, like hydrualic cylinders would....

 

[boggen]

still trying to think "universal" tire direction. and be ok-dokey. but really. agriculture tire treads, are designed for a certain direction.

and i am still not to keen on the "nasa spider rover" vs a regular caster wheel design setup. that has the 360 / rotational joint off set from center axle. the only thing holding me back. is the extra "rotational" space that a caster wheel structure setup would take up.

*keeps looking back at the nasa rover" man those extra linkages in the legs would be really nice and solve a lot of problems.

GAH, electrical motor instead of hydraulic cylinders. it is like, i can not even thinking electrical motors for joints.


BINGO!!!!. maybe, just maybe. ok, ya.... that might just work. some planetary gear sets most like a couple of them, to reduce say 3000RPM's with little torque, and convert it all to extremely low RPM's as in counting .1 to .00000001 of a degree of rotation. BAH. that might give me torque, but holding that torque and degree of rotation *grumbles* let alone the ratio conversion. ggggrrr. well DUH!! wet brake discs. errr acting like a clutch. that might work out nicely.

turn on motor, let it build up the torque, and then dis-engage the clutch errr brake, rotate to wanted degree, re-engage clutch errr brake, turn off motor. will already be running coolant lines and electrical lines right next or through the joint. errrr coolant lines through the joint will be needed. stinking explosion proof = fully enclosed motor. to reduce chance of any chance of a spark. = no way to cool motor. with exception of directly coolant. and a joint may be working itself non stop in a field.

seriously this might work. same brakes (take your pick of type of brakes) holds huge amount of force, with very little effort.

the problem, is the actual electrical motor in the joint. *ouch* enough, force, i guess torque, would need to be had. to fully lift, i guess at max, 1/2 to 3/4 the entire weight of the SSTT. ok maybe 1/4 the weight, if acting with another wheel and joint combo set.

===============
besides above. i think trying to fold a wheel up into the support arms, like that nasa spider rover, is asking way to much, nasa needed tight small package, to get it up into space. agricultral tractor, still needs tight space, but more importantly needs good traction. meaning wider width tires. making things most likely unfeasible to fold tires up inside the linkages / arms. on other hand, if going with eletrical motors in the joints, having linkages folding up inside of each other, might be a high possibility.

================
regular electrical actuators, i just do not see them happening. just not enough thread contact. and then a chance of stripping all the threads....and all it would take is one thread, out of shape, take out the entire actuator.
to note it, eletrical actuator, looking like like a hydraulic cylinder, that has a threaded rod inside of it. and a motor spines a nut that causes threaded rod to extend/contract.

================
ok weight about the "weight" in a regular SCUT / CUT / Utilty class size tractor. that has a FEL and/or backhoe. hydrualic cylinders places weight in certain spot on the tractor. if going with something like the nasa spider rover, that weight would be moved a huge amount of weight either in front (for fel) or in rear (for backhoe) destroying center of gravity, and needing a bunch more ballast.

for the SSTT on other hand. how much effect would it have on weight distribution?

placing electrical motors directly in the rims of all the tires. would be like filling the tires with a fluid. but now i am not using a hyd cylinder, that extends the entire length of a linkage almost. and in that spreads the weight out across the linkage. but weight is directly in the "pin" for lack or better term were the joint pivots.

with hydraulic cylinder, the cylinder and rod itself provides structure, to physically withstand forces being placed on things. but now...
drawing a complete blank, not even a chance for a clue or an idea to brain storm on.

 

[boggen]

my 3rd post of today

more talk of BLAH BLAH BLAH! *frowns*

been really thinking about, more of remote control setup, my thinking has been going. and just came to me. of all these regular 16 wheel semis out on the road every day, moving cargo across the world. and a good amount of the semi's themselves having a "sleeper" or rather a little bed, right behind the front seat, and area for a cooler, perhaps a spot to take a crap and let it go into a bag. to a TV and like. what about converting a semi that has a sleeper, into a control center for the SSTT's. and then using a regular semi flat bed trailer. to haul and move the SSTT around. and in that remove need for physical transport tires. or rather make that on the road tires.

============

ok getting back to the joint motors. vs hydraulic cylinders for linkages.

say a joint motor fails, and welds itself completely up. going to need to be away to easily remove motor for replacement, but also possibly get the linkages out to the wheel folded back up and locked into a position.

everyone is use to the common, bolt, flat washer, lock washers, and like and then a nut. but thinking of a gear shape washer. or perhaps eewwww.. forgot, i am looking.

ah ok, that might work. instead of a typical pin / bolt you might find on a FEL (front end loader) on a tractor. the pin would turn into an axle and a gear. the gear would lock into onside of the linkages. ya. remove pin, removes the gear. and frees everything up. use some chain binders to get things were needed and wiggle the gear pin back into place. might not be perfect but, enough to limp home and to get repaired perhaps.

electrical motor, transmission, brakes, water/anti freeze cooled, with a geared washer/bolt/axle. instead of a hydraulic cylinder and generic set of pins. why not nothing to loose at this point.

==================
ok before i was going with 24" diameter tire, with 12" width, and now more looking at 24" diameter tire with a 24" width. if i stay with ability to change tire pressure, thinking about installing 2 or more tubes per tire. to reduce flexing of the tire across the width of the tire as it rolls across the ground.

==================
at moment so tempted, to stay with idea of a semi truck, ya got the semi, then some sort of convesion block between pin on rear of semi and SSTT. then ya have SSTT, then 3rd piece. is a set of dolly wheels. that connects to other end of SSTT. the SSTT acts like frame of a regular semi truck trailer. and the SSTT, detaches from the truck, and the rear wheels of the trailer.

heck it would fit right on in, with kids computer games, but actually playing a game, that physically does something. that kinda scary.

if SSTT could be trailer ed, gah, that was cure so many problems, when moving SSTT around. when dealing with emergency situations, (electrical fail, air pressure fails for brakes, etc...) and make sure all the wheels that needed to turn and be in correct direction on SSTT in all failure modes work. road safety vs field safety. big difference there. and removes the BIG, problem. of automated vehicles going down the road. with a driver behind a wheel. granted there was always a plan for a driver for a SSTT. just not sure how a driver / cab would be implemented.

hhmmmsss perhaps having a flat bed trailer would make better sense, it would give me guessing another 12 feet plus of length to work width, vs trying to fit the SSTT between rear of semi truck, and the rear wheel piece. i might be able to make trailer "lighter" as in weight, and perhaps less beefy, if some sort of "locking" happen. that tied the SSTT down. and let the frame of the SSTT, take the good amount of stress a flat bed would see.

ok, maybe i can still skip the trailer all together. i just need to get SSTT. to climb up on rear end of a semi trailer. and then the rear wheels (dolly i guess) pull itself up under the SSTT. lifting the rear end of the SSTT up and over these rear dolly wheels. and then locking everything down. not with chains, and binders, but more of lynch pins and arms. that lock everything into place. as if everything was securely bolted together.

ok if i did that, the SSTT, wheels will still need to rotate a full 360 degrees. in order to deal with tread direction of tires and to obtain highest level of traction possible. so that really does not change. BUT. i can cut out lock the SSTT wheels in a very specific angle for transportation. (wheels would not be turning) like front wheels of a car or truck or wagon for that matter. ok i take that back, i still may need to be able to lock one rear set of tires of the SSTT. so maybe a regular full size pickup might be able to get a unique goose neck, that hooks to SSTT. and go about things that way. perhaps just to move an extra SSTT around. while leaving the semi truck as the command center to control a few SSTT's out in the immediate field. if using regular truck, putting limit of staying under 40 mph. and someone would have to physically go out and put pins into place, and perhaps toss a chain or something around things. perhaps install a couple square tube like supports to lock the rear wheels in to place so they can not fall down, due to everyhing else between rear wheels of SSTT will be off ground.

===============
sounding more like a new tractor idea going on here. from STB, to SSTT, to something else, that i am not completely sure of yet.

this will not be some RC (remote control) little 1/30 scale kids toy car, or air plane or helicopter. but a 1to1 scale full size tractor. ya i keep dreaming, i guess it is time to see if dream comes to reality!

 

[boggen]

semi truck, with sleeper area, turned into command center.

what would normally be 8 wheels on rear of a semi truck trailer. is turned into a glorified RC (remote control) car on steroids. that attaches / detaches. to one end of the SSTT for transportation.

(not sure of actual name) semi trucks and trailers use for them to connect together. but same idea. but in this case, there is a converter, between the normal pin a semi trailer would have. and the connection to the SSTT.

================
if i stay with dolly for rear wheels type of thing. i am going to need a 3 point connection both at rear of semi truck (the converter) and then on the dolly itself. 3 point connection in shape of a triangle. so i can ensure, everything holes nice and tight, in a roll over, or hills, or say hitting a guard rail, mail box, etc... and not rip the dolly wheels out. think 3 point connection much like a 3pt hitch on rear of a tractor, but turn flat. i think.

SSTT rolls up, and then sets down, and 3 large bolts or pins come down on each end of the SSTT and makes physical lock on rear of semi truck, and then on dolly wheels.

=============
i have been debating over a generic, frame between rear of semi truck and dolly wheels. and turn everything into an actual trailer. if i did this, i could send power through the frame to the rear dolly wheels. and reduce a bunch of extra complicated connections. for air for rear brake tires, electrical, along with sensors. the frame might also serve as a backup. in case something on the SSTT came loose and started to dangle down. on to the road. the frame might stop that.

but perhaps a hybrid setup.

a very cheap flimsy, frame between rear of truck to dolly wheels. and still go with 3 point connection. or something. so SSTT can quickly and securly fasten itself down. and act like part of the support structure when SSTT is on the trailer. that might work out better.

perhaps. all rear wheels to expand/contract with say a hydraulic cylinder or like. so distance between rear of semi truck, and dolly wheels can be any were from 0feet to 2 feet extra. to aid in getting SSTT all lined up.

=================
other major issue. how to get SSTT to roll off a trailer. there was no main frame between semi truck connection and dolly wheels. the SSTT could just put its wheels down, and then lift right off of semi truck and dolly wheels. and SSTT could take off out into the field.

but with a frame. connecting semi truck connection to the dolly wheels. the SSTT would have to some how roll up on to some sort of ramps. or some how lift up one set of wheels a couple feet. roll part way on. then lift another set of wheels up on the trailer. kinda of a pain in the rear.

=================
if dolly wheels were just that a remote control set of wheels. there would need to be batteries or a small generator and a battery, to make sure the dolly wheels could move when needed.

=================
ok what about a frame that was hydrualic cylinder driven. that raised up and down. i mean there really would not be a whole lot of weight or stress being placed on this trailer frame. about all the frame would do. is when there is NO sstt on. is make sure the rear dolly wheels do not roll some place there not suppose to roll.

but then whole thing of trying to get wheels of SSTT from slipping and sliding, as they roll over a frame of trailer. it would be like taking any vehicle or tractor for that matter and trying to drive over a log or pipe.

then issue, of the trailer frame, getting bent up and twisted and everything else, not to mention the weight of SSTT being placed on the frame as it rolls over it. more so if frame is placed down on uneven ground, and ends up laying down on some large rock. i could see this frame bending all to heck. *frowns*

==================
road side parking errr parking on and into the ditch along side of the road. dolly more likely tip over. if not frame between it and rear end of semi truck.

==================
what if i just skipped the whole dolly idea. and just used the wheels on the SSTT furthest from semi truck rear end. to act as transport wheels. that would be the most ideal setup i suppose. and just accept the wear and tear of the wheels on the SSTT that are down during transport mode. while all other wheels are lifted up off the ground on the SSTT. that would give better ability for logistics and perhaps using a full sized pickup truck that is beefed up on shocks and rear axle. to transport the SSTT around, and just have the semi truck use as a command center. and ability to pull a SSTT around.

ya i like that idea, instead of turning SSTT into like a grain wagon. just turn the SSTT into a trailer for transport mode.

 

[Ken]

Ryan I was thinking you were planning on equipment large enough to pay the not using a tractor. But hauling on pick up ?
Go to a logging yard where the transport trucks are unloading trees/logs look at how when empty the truck locks the trailer brakes then back up jack-knifing the trailer frame until all is loaded on the truck. Saves wear on daul axles. less rubber on the road.
Elec. motors with dc voltage that is pulsed will rotate at full current and rpm is by frequency of pulse.
Also for breaks the pulse is reversed. when need to lock the brakes use a magnetic clutch no voltage full brakes.
Now a personnal question . What age level educational and experance do you have.A
P.M. would be O'k
ken

 

[boggen]

ya, i know ya confused and i am sure a good amount of other folks, due to i am confusing my own self. i really need to do a "RECAP" and bring everything together. vs all this random almost jumping around, and working the little things out here and there. the problem is, i am not fully sure what i am wanting. there is not some "huge major goal" of how i would like the SSTT to work or look or operate. ya i do have an idea. but i am not married / sold on the idea.

post 279 this should make, so it is about time for a good recap i noted in a previous post.

==============
until then.....

drawings in trying to figure out how to route and run wires/hoses around the caster wheel like design for electrical wheel hub motors. and connection up to a 360/rotational joint setting on top of the caster wheel structure.



===============

autodesk for re-activation, was easy enough.
going through autodesk inventor professional 2013, link to activate in the program to send a request
day later they emailed me asking for some more info
replied of what has happen.
next day got a email with code i needed to activate inventor.
and no down time, was able to use the 30 day trail to activation was worked out.

now time to see about magnetic software that works with autodesk i hope.

 

[boggen]

RECAP RECAP

all chicken scratch diagrams, i have made and posted to this thread.

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i did not include any links to third party websites or pictures, or at least i hope i have not, in this post. really not wanting to go back through and add reference information.