New Starter for 422

[Frank Sorbello]

I have a 1999 PT-422 with a rebuilt Robin 22hp engine. Engine has been running good and strong. Just starting seems to be its biggest problem, even in the warmer temperatures.

How difficult is it to change out the starter? I am not sure I can fit my hands into the tub where the starter is to remove it and put a new one back in.

My other question, is there a stronger starter than the original one that comes with the 22hp Robin?

Thanks
Frank

 

[BobRip]

Robin gave me a free starter to replace my original one. It is supposed to be more powerful, but I can't see any difference.

 

[Marks481]

My other question, is there a stronger starter than the original one that comes with the 22hp Robin?

Here is the parts manual from Robin America.

http://www.subarupower.com/media/manuals/130240717824545000.pdf

On page #37 & 39 it shows two different versions ("old" and "New"):

old: PN#263-70501-00 STARTING MOTOR
new: PN#263-70502-A0 STARTING MOTOR

Plugging those part numbers into jackssmallengines, we get the following choices:

old version: $290 Robin/Subaru 2637050100 STARTER NLA 4/99
new version: $317 Robin/Subaru 26370502A0 STARTER STD

There is also a link to a service bulletin, which describes changing from the old version, to the new version. New starter, new wiring harness, new solenoid.
Robin/Subaru 2637050100 STARTER NLA 4/99

Note that this says all engines manufactured after Jan 1999 have the "new version", so you may or may not have the "new" motor style depending on when PT sourced the motor.

Note that there is someone selling the 263-70502-A0 (new) starter on ebay for $70.

 

[Frank Sorbello]

Thanks for the information. How do I find out the year of the engine?
My Power Trac is a 1999 machine.

 

[MossRoad]

There should be a serial number on the engine somewhere. That should be able to be crossed to a year of manufacture.

 

[Frank Sorbello]

I bought a new starter last month but haven't had time until today to swap it out. However, unable to get to the two bolts on the side of the old starter.

So far, I removed the muffler, battery cables, left rear tire, PTO solenoid. There are two 3/8" holes on the tub in proximity to where the starter is. I drilled the top hole to about 5/8" of an inch so I may be able to see with a light.

I though about removing the left rear wheel motor to see if could get my had up through the hole to possibly find the lower bolt on the starter. If any of you have ever change a starter out, I sure would appreciate any input. My Power Trac is a 1999 422 with a 22 hp Robin.

Thanks
Frank

 

[BobRip]

I bought a new starter last month but haven't had time until today to swap it out. However, unable to get to the two bolts on the side of the old starter.

So far, I removed the muffler, battery cables, left rear tire, PTO solenoid. There are two 3/8" holes on the tub in proximity to where the starter is. I drilled the top hole to about 5/8" of an inch so I may be able to see with a light.

I though about removing the left rear wheel motor to see if could get my had up through the hole to possibly find the lower bolt on the starter. If any of you have ever change a starter out, I sure would appreciate any input. My Power Trac is a 1999 422 with a 22 hp Robin.

Thanks
Frank

I changed one out on my 2000 422. I remember it took me a long time. My memory is not very good, so please forgive if my comments don't help. Did you remove the air diverter sheet metal piece just above the starter. Also I vaguely remember removing the bolts connecting the engine compartment tub to the motor mount. Then you are able to slide the engine over a little and get more clearance. I think I also removed partly the plastics engine cooling fan shroud. I hope this is helpful.

 

[Frank Sorbello]

I talked to Terry today. He said all I would need to do is unbolt the engine stand from the frame and then hoist the engine up high enough to remove the starter.

Upon further review, I believe the gas tank and bracket, muffler also have to be removed.

He said theyI shouldn't have to disconnect any hydraulic lines to replace the starter.

 

[BobRip]

I talked to Terry today. He said all I would need to do is unbolt the engine stand from the frame and then hoist the engine up high enough to remove the starter.

Upon further review, I believe the gas tank and bracket, muffler also have to be removed.

He said theyI shouldn't have to disconnect any hydraulic lines to replace the starter.

I did not do that, but I bet it makes it easier. Do you have a hoist to lift the engine?

 

[Frank Sorbello]

 

[Frank Sorbello]

I had some time today to remove the starter. I really didn't want to unbolt the engine from the stand. I don't have a hoist or any means to lift it. I took another approach. I drilled two 1/2" holes in the tub where the bolts are on the starter. In less than five minutes I had the bolts out and starter came out fairly easily. Now is where it gets tricky.
There isn't much room to try and align the starter to the engine. I thought if I unbolt the left rear wheel motor and move it out of the way, I can get my left hand in the hole and hold up the starter to try and bolt in back together.

I removed the pin that keeps the nut from spinning off the wheel plate. The nut seems almost like it is frozen to the threads on the wheel motor. I am afraid if I put too much pressure on that nut and shaft I will hurt the wheel motor.

Shouldn't that nut spin off easily?

 

[ponytug]

Dear Frank,

Great out of box, (or should I say tub?), thinking with the holes. If that castle nut is like the one on my 1445, it will require some version of penetrating oil (e.g. PowerBlaster/Liquid Wrench) to get the threads loose, and real force, but then you'll need something like a gear puller to get the plate off, because the plate was wedged onto the spindle by the castle nut (my spindle is tapered, I don't know about the 422), and rusted into place over time. A little heat can go a long way to helping break the rust seal. On some vehicles, I have had to use penetrating oil, tapping the nut with a hammer, heat, and big wrenches, or impact wrenches, to get rusted on nuts loose. These are not easy nuts to get loose, at least in my limited experience.

Recently, for a different vehicle, I broke down and bought a nut splitter because i have a nut that is so inaccessible, and so rusted in place, that I couldn't get it loose, even with an air wrench and penetrating oil. (It was one of those bolts that is trivially accessible- before the manufacturer put the chassis on the frame, when it became only accessible by mice. It holds a fuel line in place, so I think that you can understand why I wasn't waving a blow torch at it.) :laughing:

Good luck.

All the best,

Peter

 

[BobRip]

M

I had some time today to remove the starter. I really didn't want to unbolt the engine from the stand. I don't have a hoist or any means to lift it. I took another approach. I drilled two 1/2" holes in the tub where the bolts are on the starter. In less than five minutes I had the bolts out and starter came out fairly easily. Now is where it gets tricky.
There isn't much room to try and align the starter to the engine. I thought if I unbolt the left rear wheel motor and move it out of the way, I can get my left hand in the hole and hold up the starter to try and bolt in back together.

I removed the pin that keeps the nut from spinning off the wheel plate. The nut seems almost like it is frozen to the threads on the wheel motor. I am afraid if I put too much pressure on that nut and shaft I will hurt the wheel motor.

Shouldn't that nut spin off easily?

How about a picture of where you drill the holes? I want to put my ground cable on one of these bolts.

 

[Frank Sorbello]

Couldn't be more happier!!!!! Total time removing and replacing starter was 2 1/2 hours. The two 1/2" holes worked perfectly. I didn't have to take any hydraulic lines apart or lift the motor. I did try to move the lest rear wheel motor, but that nut was/is frozen on there, even with a lot of Liquid Wrench on it.

A big thank you to Tmarks11. I bought a new starter on eBay for $68 with free shipping. It works awesome! Never since I have owned it has it started so quickly.
I used a stepper bit from Harbor Freight to drill the holes. Those bits are awesome. Less than five minutes each to drill. I also purchased a hand held digital inspection camera from Harbor Freight on sale for $69. It was a big help. It has a great picture.

This is such a great forum. Thanks to everyone out there who has helped me since I have purchased this 422. It has really come along way since I have brought it home.

 

[PTWannaHave]

...I drilled two 1/2" holes in the tub where the bolts are on the starter.

Did you guesstimate the location of the holes, or were you able to take fairly accurate measurements?

Ciao,

 

[Frank Sorbello]

There were two existing holes on top of the tub. I drilled the top one out to a 1/2". I could see the head of the bolt. It was a straight shot. I measured the bolt hole openings center to center on the new starter. It was 3 1/2". I measured down 3 1/2" from the top of the center hole and thats where I drilled the bottom 1/2"hole.

 

[BobRip]

Y

There were two existing holes on top of the tub. I drilled the top one out to a 1/2". I could see the head of the bolt. It was a straight shot. I measured the bolt hole openings center to center on the new starter. It was 3 1/2". I measured down 3 1/2" from the top of the center hole and thats where I drilled the bottom 1/2"hole.

I just looked at your reply again. Now I understand. I try to put the battery ground on one. Thanks.