New House - Central Air

[WhyNot]

Wow, sounds like Home Depot cabints are popular. I guess the answer is that we want something more substantial, more real wood and plywood as opposed to particle board. More unobtrusive hardware, etc. The particular ones we looked at in HD just seemed very lightweight nad not inexpensive at all.

Understandable, just remember you and the misses are only going to build this house once so build it how you want even if it does cost a little more money than what was planned for

 

[NewToy]

Check on geothermal. 2100 square foot house and our e-bill RARELY exceeds $100.00 any time of the year. We also put R-38 in the roof and have R-24 walls. I think the prices you got were very high, but I vaguely remember my AC guy telling me about a dramatic price increase coming down the line. I can't remember what it was about, maybe a more knowledgeable HVAC member will chime in.

John

 

[NewToy]

Wow, sounds like Home Depot cabints are popular. I guess the answer is that we want something more substantial, more real wood and plywood as opposed to particle board. More unobtrusive hardware, etc. The particular ones we looked at in HD just seemed very lightweight nad not inexpensive at all.

We have a large contingent of Amish folks around here. Got the solid oak custom cabinets cheaper than the stuff from the Depot. Iy ended up about the same price with the Amish guys doing the installation.

John

 

[Alan L.]

Could you pair it up to a gas dryer? Maybe you don't need a dryer in texas? I only have a small propane tank to run the gas dryer on my property, I have been wondering if I put in the tankless water heater if the small tank would suffice.

I've thought of the gas dryer. I just seems like the real dollar savings from gas water heating and a dryer are so small that its hardly worth the worry of running the gas lines, worrying about keep fuel in the propane tank etc. I am starting to lean toward a high efficiency electric tank heater. If rates go way up it can always be replaced with solar or heat pump water heater. Best I can tell we're only talking about saving maybe $25 or $30 a month with a tankless gas water heater, and alot of people that have them don't like them anyway.

 

[Alan L.]

Check on geothermal. 2100 square foot house and our e-bill RARELY exceeds $100.00 any time of the year. We also put R-38 in the roof and have R-24 walls. I think the prices you got were very high, but I vaguely remember my AC guy telling me about a dramatic price increase coming down the line. I can't remember what it was about, maybe a more knowledgeable HVAC member will chime in.

John

Geothermal is probably great in many areas of the country. I was considering until I started working with my designer for the house. Its a married couple team that does the plans and they have a stand alone building for an office we visited, next to their 2700 sq ft house. They put in geothermal with several wells and it has given them lots of trouble. Out for 5 weeks at a time because there is only one outfit that works on them within 50 miles. For his little building, he has switched over to regular air heat pump, and said he would opt for high efficiency air heat pump on any house he does in the future.

 

[Jagmandave]

Jagmandave, $200 sq foot, for the house it self, or does this include land?

If it is just the house, can I come use your solid gold toilet.

What are you doing for $200 a square foot? I did 9' ceiling, hardwood floors mostly about 1,850 square feet, slate entry, heated tile in master bath, Silestone counter tops in the kitchen 70-80 sq feet, Corian counter tops in bathroom, real wood trim, solid wood interior doors, fiberglass entry door with the leaded window and side windows, fiberglass french door onto the covered trex deck porch, higher end cabinets, several Miele appliances, built in book cabinets, generator ready, lots of elctrical that goes to nothing now like for a future hot tub, and fountain, all Hardi plank siding. We came out to $140 and we live in western WA.

steve

Well, that's whay I was put off too, it just seems so out of line to me........and I own the land outright!

We're going to get two more bids, if I can find two more contractors who say they have experience building ICF homes, and then see where we're at.....

I think part of the problem may be that the guy who bid our house is used to doing multi million $ homes, we're not in that league!

My SIL who is an architect in North Carolina says he's designed homes there that ran over $650/sq ft when built!

 

[NewToy]

Geothermal is probably great in many areas of the country. I was considering until I started working with my designer for the house. Its a married couple team that does the plans and they have a stand alone building for an office we visited, next to their 2700 sq ft house. They put in geothermal with several wells and it has given them lots of trouble. Out for 5 weeks at a time because there is only one outfit that works on them within 50 miles. For his little building, he has switched over to regular air heat pump, and said he would opt for high efficiency air heat pump on any house he does in the future.

Since it's a relatively new technology they probably had some inexperienced installer? My unit uses a series of 5 150' trenches 7' deep that each have 600 feet of pipe coiled up in them. The only way they use a well system around here is if the homesite is sitting on solid rock. We haven't had any issues with ours so far.

John

 

[Alan L.]

Since it's a relatively new technology they probably had some inexperienced installer? My unit uses a series of 5 150' trenches 7' deep that each have 600 feet of pipe coiled up in them. The only way they use a well system around here is if the homesite is sitting on solid rock. We haven't had any issues with ours so far.

John

I got some quotes for Trane systems from my neighbor. My builder friend likes to use Reed and Reed has given me a quote for 3 separate 2-ton Rheem systems, plus ERV (heat exhanger) = $13,500 which probably includes sales tax but not sure. Sales tax would be 8.25% of equipment only.

My neighbor is quoting me a 4-ton unit for downstairs and 2-ton for upstairs as follows:

Trane XB 13 SEER $11,486
Trane XB 14 SEER $12,363
Trane XL 16 SEER $14, 697
Trane XL 19 SEER $16,306

These figures are less than than some numbers I had seen earlier for Trane, making it tempting for me to go in that direction.

The 19 is a 2-stage system. It runs on one compressor un til it needs more cooling, then fires up a second compressor, thus the efficiency rating. I have read great reviews on this unit.

This means that to get the Trane 19 SEER, adding about $1500 for the ERV would get me to about $18,000. Then, since there is no separate unit for the bedroom, we would want to add a 1-ton minisplit for the bedroom getting us to around $20,000.

Reed's bid is probably not bad, and he could price Trane equpment also. And, frankly my buider prefers him. However I have never met him but do know that he put in the system in my rent house 4 years ago and my tenant has some zoning issues that need adjusting (the baffles). Left calls for him twice over the last month and he has not returned my phone calls. My neighbor, who my builder friend says is always too expensive and he does not like to use him lives a half mile away and has always fixed our current unit in the evening when we call him. And its only a $3000 Rheem unit he put in our building 5 years ago.

One problem we have severe allergies. Not only do we like it cool, but also we will run the A/c on nights that get as cools as the 40s, to keep from getting all kinds of pollen and damp air in the house. For this he had to install a cold weather kit that causes the fan motor on the outside unit to kick in until head pressure reaches a certain amount. This keeps it from freezing up.

Anyway, I like the guy and I think he does good work, and will be available if it breaks. He hates Rheem and loves Trane because he says the equipment is much nicer and he gets super support from Trane.

Now, if I'm spending $20K should I be thinking geothermal, even given the trouble I've heard people around here have? After posting my negative comments about geothermal we visited some friends of my children today and their new 3800 square foot house. They have geothermal with wells and say their electric bill is great.

But, heck it was at least 80 in their house. Whats the point of spending all those $$ on geothermal if you aren't going to COOL your house?

Anyway, I am leaning toward scratching the metal roof and putting my $$ in a Trane 19 SEER system with my neighbor doing the work. He agreed to check on the prices for R8 ductwork (vs R6) and will let me know how much more that would be.

Any comments?

 

[Michael_S]

Alan,
I feel your pain. Currently building a home.
Exception is we are doing it all ourselves. A few observations.
Does the cost of piers include steel and concrete? I had 98 piers drilled 15 ft below natural grade w/ 30 bell on bottom. Paid 3600 total. My wife, kids, and I poured the concrete and added the steel.
As Harvey would say, it was "Nothing but a thing"
The driller was from Sherman.
PM me if you want his name.
A/C bids on my house, 3 units, 10 tons total, came in from 12k to 36k.
Check the roi on the 17 and 19 seer stuff. On some bids the cost of the equipment is double that of 14 seer. I'm installing 14 seer for about 16k.
The exact same equipemnt from another company was 26k on their bid.

Eddie hit the mark on materials. Used 84 for our framing package.
Compared and they were the lowest.
One day I ran out of osb. 84 couldn't make the delivery, so I called a local mom and pop outfit. Turns out they were $4.00 per sheet cheaper than 84, $5.00 per sheet cheaper than HD.

Good luck.

 

[jinman]

Wow, sounds like Home Depot cabints are popular. I guess the answer is that we want something more substantial, more real wood and plywood as opposed to particle board. More unobtrusive hardware, etc. The particular ones we looked at in HD just seemed very lightweight nad not inexpensive at all.

Alan, I can't add much to what you've already found out about your building costs except to say that costs have skyrocketed since I built my house. For cabinets, I can recommend Bill Pitts out of Denton. He's on a family farm place between Denton and Decatur on Hwy 380. I really like the cabinets he built for me and the one-on-one attention to what I wanted. I will try to get his phone number for you if you are interested. He delivered the cabinets and installed them unfinished. The painters finished them as is common in many instances of custom built homes.

 

[Alan L.]

Alan,
I feel your pain. Currently building a home.
Exception is we are doing it all ourselves. A few observations.
Does the cost of piers include steel and concrete? I had 98 piers drilled 15 ft below natural grade w/ 30 bell on bottom. Paid 3600 total. My wife, kids, and I poured the concrete and added the steel.
As Harvey would say, it was "Nothing but a thing"
The driller was from Sherman.
PM me if you want his name.
A/C bids on my house, 3 units, 10 tons total, came in from 12k to 36k.
Check the roi on the 17 and 19 seer stuff. On some bids the cost of the equipment is double that of 14 seer. I'm installing 14 seer for about 16k.
The exact same equipemnt from another company was 26k on their bid.

Eddie hit the mark on materials. Used 84 for our framing package.
Compared and they were the lowest.
One day I ran out of osb. 84 couldn't make the delivery, so I called a local mom and pop outfit. Turns out they were $4.00 per sheet cheaper than 84, $5.00 per sheet cheaper than HD.

Good luck.

I'm pretty sure the piers include everthing. I do wonder why my builder thinks I need 30, and not more. If you have 98 that seems like alot.

 

[rox]

Jagmandave]I'm ready to build my new house, and the first bids came in a few days ago, I'm still lying on the floor and the heart defib is nearby!

Mine figured out to close to $200/ sq ft.........................in Kansas............

This is a 2700 sq ft 3 bdrm, 2 bath ranch with a daylight basement (unfinished), no vaulted ceilings (10 ft tho), and my first choice was to go with ICF's.........most of the basement was going to be my shop and a place for the tractor to park.

At this price, I won't be building anything............

Yup basements really do cost. Now add int he square fotage of the basement + the 2,700 square foot and then divide by the cost. Per square foot I bet it is much less than $200. People in parts of the country that don't build basements can be surprised that a 2,700sqft home can cost that much. I am not surprised. Bet you have nice doors, windows, probably at least some masonary exterior if not all, custome cabinetry etc.. I am not surprised at the estimate.

 

[BillG_in_TX]

This means that to get the Trane 19 SEER, adding about $1500 for the ERV would get me to about $18,000. Then, since there is no separate unit for the bedroom, we would want to add a 1-ton minisplit for the bedroom getting us to around $20,000.
Any comments?

Alan,

I saw a big ad in today's DMN for the Trane XL19, showing a $1k rebate right now. I don't know if that's new or not.

It seems to me that you could zone the downstairs to dump lots of cold air into your bedroom at night and not have to add the extra 1-ton minisplit unit. Wouldn't that work for you?

 

[Alan L.]

Alan,

I saw a big ad in today's DMN for the Trane XL19, showing a $1k rebate right now. I don't know if that's new or not.

It seems to me that you could zone the downstairs to dump lots of cold air into your bedroom at night and not have to add the extra 1-ton minisplit unit. Wouldn't that work for you?

Bill, the zoning thing is tempting, however my understanding is that it doesn't work near as well as a separate unit. But it would save money, maybe enough to get a more efficient unit to begin with.

 

[Sigarms]

Bill, the zoning thing is tempting, however my understanding is that it doesn't work near as well as a separate unit. But it would save money, maybe enough to get a more efficient unit to begin with.

A little secret. Get a $1000 dollars off the system, so instead of charging you 10 or 15k for the job, they charge you 11 or 16k for the job. Still get the same price you would would of gotten, but you think you're getting a deal.

Sort of like getting a "Free" electronic air cleaner. System price with air cleaner costs the dealer 10k. They give you a price of 11k and tell you they are knocking the air cleaner off because you're getting it for "free". Matter of perception.

Remember, apples to apples.

Have you priced out any other Trane dealer for the exact same equipment? Or perhaps a Carrier Infiniti system?

A PROPERLY designed and installed zoned system will work just as well as a non zoned system, period (but hey, maybe not in Texas for what reasons I have no clue )

Do these guys know you want the bedroom set to 60 degrees? I'd suggest you get it in writing from the HVAC contractor on how the system will perform (particularly keeping the bedroom at 60 degrees no matter what the temperature is outside).

Know more than a couple of guys who have had moisture issues due to oversizing an a/c system.

You mentioned allergies (sp?). Look at the indoor air quality products that can work with your HVAC system. You'd be surprised with whats out there.