Neighbor Relations

Got2BTru · Aug 22, 2015

As you may or may not know, we bought 32 acres 3 years ago and *hope* to start building next Spring. We've been out on the land regularly for each of the last 2 years (twice a month on average).

Last year, we got a new neighbor in front of us (there were 4 parcels in front of us, this individual bought 2 of them). He put up a horse barn over the winter and then put up a house. The property line between the 4 people and us is pretty consistent/straight. I've noticed though that this guy was mowing on what *appeared* to be our property. It was difficult to tell, because *someone* removed the t-posts that the surveyor put up when we bought it. As a result of that, and that we're not on it to mow regularly, we couldn't find the property pin markers.

When I bought the tractor 2 months ago, I brush-hogged the line between us and the next weekend when my wife was on the land, he approached her and asked if we could keep a buffer between our properties as he trains former race horses to be pasture horses. He asked if I'd stop over when I got a chance so we can talk about it. When I got back to the land that day, my wife and I went over and we all chatted. He said he uses our land (because the grass is high) so his horses can "know" where not to go as he's running them in a large circle on his property.

I didn't say much other than we'd think about it as we haven't decided what type of fencing, etc. we were going to be putting up. He mentioned to me that any fence (or building) I put up had to have a 30' set back. We parted ways at that point. I found it odd that he wanted me to have a buffer on my property so he could run his horses. I also wasn't buying the set back for a farm fence. I reached out to our local codes guy who reinforced my thoughts.

When I was on the property a week later, I was telling a buddy of mine what transpired and we decided to look for the property pins together, and found them, along with 1 of the t-posts that had been overgrown by the grass. Sure enough, it was at least 10' past where he was mowing onto my property. We reset the t-post and sprayed it a BRIGHT orange so it was clear as day.

As I'm traveling for work currently, my wife called me the other day and told me that there were trees planted on our property. They were between 4 and 10' onto our property, after the pin. I called my buddy and he worked with my wife to stand up a string along the property between our house and those in front of us. I DID send this neighbor an e-mail (I didn't have a phone #) and mentioned to him that we noticed there were trees and perhaps there was some confusion, so we were stinging a line so we could see where the property line was.

He called me and said he thought we talked about a buffer, so he planted the trees "a few feet" onto my property so they would grow and be a nice buffer between us. He was nice about it and said there wasn't any ill intent or anything, which I was glad. I WANT to get along with my neighbors.

What I don't understand is why someone would plant a permanent thing on someone else's property? I understand that he wants a buffer and I'm sure would like to maximize his acreage, but at the expense of mine? Am I reading too much into this?

What's your all take on this? By the way, he has said he's going to move the trees back to the property line...of course that makes me wonder how far from the property line a tree should be planted, etc.? I guess I'll take a look this weekend when I get back home. Kinda frustrated...uncertain in all of this. What do you guys think?

jveretto · Aug 22, 2015

If he wants a buffer, let it be on his side of the property line. He plans to take your property/buffer I think!

KubotaToy · Aug 22, 2015

Some good discussion on the subject in this thread, http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/rural-living/342317-annoyed-dirt-bikers.html

I have 12 acres behind me that just sold (I tried to buy it but they found someone willing to pay 3x land value). New owners want to build a house 25 feet from the line near a pond I dug (per setback). They asked if I would put a gate in in my fence so they could walk around the my pond and fish. And if I was going move the goats and dogs that are on my property because the dogs bark at them all the time and the goats have a smell. I guess I am crazy but I would not in any world ask someone that. Nor would I ask for someone to keep their land as I would like it, tell him to put a buffer on his property.

Fawken · Aug 22, 2015

Advice given above is good. If he wants to put trees on his side, I wouldn't care how close to the line they were. You can never have too much shade for your cattle.

KubotaToy · Aug 22, 2015

After reading your post again, best thing you could do is get a fence up as soon as possible. Fences make neighbors tolerable (if only i could get them to quit throwing all their grass clippings and bush over the fence now).

Trillium Farm · Aug 22, 2015

Got2betru, check your laws on squatting in your county as these people may be setting themselves up for an adverse takeover of your land. It may take 10 yrs, but you'd better make sure.

MinnesotaEric · Aug 22, 2015

When I grow up, I want to use all of my land and have the amenities I would like to have like a BUFFER ZONE on somebody else's land so as to not pay taxes on it.

Make a deal: offer to sell or even better, offer to lease this person a 20 foot strip of your land along your shared abutment, then use the proceeds to build a fence on the new property line. A fence usually need only be set in 1-3' feet. Buildings in my county are to be set back 10' from side lot lines and 30 feet from municipal roads, and a variety of distances from lakeshore depending on how the lake is classified. Google <name of your county and state> +setbacks.

4570Man · Aug 22, 2015

I wouldn't care if he mowed my property, but the buffer and the trees is too much. My neighbour expects me to mow about 20 feet into his land. He stops mowing 20 feet short of the line.

phiferpharm · Aug 22, 2015

This is not a good situation for you and you are being taken advantage of.

A true story - my next door neighbor told my wife while I was on military duty that the property line ran between two overlapping trees, and he wanted to put up a new fence between our properties. This fence was going to be placed behind an area that was approximately a one acre uncleared area of forest.

Long story short, the fence was placed over 15 feet onto my property and ran a distance of over two hundred feet to our lake. Due to his odd property shape (approximately 1.3 acres total), the lakefront is NOT part of their property. His wife stated it was really the joint road access they were not using and so it was alright for them to fence it in. They didn't need it for property access as they have been running across my son's front yard to gain access to their property

confused2

. On top of that the survey shows the access is on the opposite side of the fence that already existed.

Now the husband unexpectedly past away and my wife doesn't want to have a mad neighbor. My take is sorry, but I don't feel the need to donate a 15X200 foot strip of my property. You don't need to be a land donor for his horses...

KubotaToy · Aug 22, 2015

4570Man said:
I wouldn't care if he mowed my property, but the buffer and the trees is too much. My neighbour expects me to mow about 20 feet into his land. He stops mowing 20 feet short of the line.

Would need to be careful to let someone mow some of your property, adverse possession has been claimed in many cases just for mowing.

In Tennessee, someone may claim title after seven years (or 20 years without color of title) if they satisfy the following requirements: Must enter the land without the owner's permission (hence the term "adverse"); Must actually be on the land, using and caring for it as if it were his or her own; Must use the land and/or structure in an open manner (in other words, it may not be secretive or covert); and Must use the land continuously for seven years, without sharing this possession with others (unless it's possession by tenants in common).

MossRoad · Aug 22, 2015

Put up a fence on the line ASAP. It sounds like he wants a buffer, but he wants all of his property clear; every last foot of it. Don't have any of it. If he plants trees right on the line, you most likely won't be able to put a fence on the line, and he'll start using the area behind the tress as they get taller. Again, fence it now, even if its just a cheap, T-Post and two strand fence.

kf4uda · Aug 22, 2015

I would suggest meeting with him and together decide what type of fence to construct on the property line with the materials and labor being split equally between both.

As others have said, let him have a buffer and trees on his side of the fence.

Mace Canute · Aug 22, 2015

My take on the situation is he doesn't respect you or he wouldn't have DELIBERATELY done all that you say he's done. Con men don't respect other people even though they are nice as can be.

You say "He said he uses our land (because the grass is high) so his horses can "know" where not to go as he's running them in a large circle on his property." That makes no sense whatsoever and falls into the "if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you" category. Horses will go where they want to go if nothing constrains them.

You say "He mentioned to me that any fence (or building) I put up had to have a 30' set back." You've found out from the local codes guy just how wrong he was. This should tell you he's either extremely stupid (highly unlikely) or is trying to BS you. With that in mind do you think you can trust anything he tells you? It would have been interesting to have seen his response if you had told him that since he's running horses he is responsible for putting up fences to keep them off your property and to be sure to put his fence up with a 30' setback off your property. You might want to check into whether or not there's a "shared cost of fence" clause in the code book just in case he tries to BS you on that too. If there is, don't take his word on costs, demand to see actual receipts and verify every item. Protect yourself.

You say "What I don't understand is why someone would plant a permanent thing on someone else's property? I understand that he wants a buffer and I'm sure would like to maximize his acreage, but at the expense of mine? Am I reading too much into this? " Seriously? He obviously planted the trees on your property so he would have full use of all of his property while getting the benefit of having trees that he isn't responsible for. You also loose use of the property the trees are on. He knows that if you didn't say anything he was golden and he took a chance you wouldn't on the old adage of better to ask forgiveness than permission. I suspect he has done similar actions in the past with others and overall it's been to his benefit.

You say "By the way, he has said he's going to move the trees back to the property line...of course that makes me wonder how far from the property line a tree should be planted, etc.?" If there isn't a setback per code I'd say it's obvious how far from the fence line he should plant the trees...either the exact same distance from the fence line that he planted them on your property or the 30' setback he tried to convince you of regarding buildings and fence line. If there isn't a code setback for trees and since he thought it was the right distance from the fence line when he planted them on your property then it's still the right distance from the fence line when planting his trees on his property. Insist on this and what ever you do make him understand that wherever he plants them they are not to be so close to the fence line that they interfere with the fence in any way in the future when they are full grown.

He's the kind of person who if you give him an inch he will take a mile and it sound's like he's trying to take that mile before you give an inch. Take a firm line with him and never give up one single right you have regardless of how trivial you think it might be. Don't forget...his actions clearly prove he doesn't respect you. You might be a good neighbour but he isn't and will never be. Protect yourself.

murphy1244 · Aug 22, 2015

From my take on this is this guy is going to be trouble with a capitol T. Put him in his place now or your always going to be on the receiving end. I like what Mace says about the Horse fence, do it..

roadhunter · Aug 22, 2015

Fence immediately. This is the kind of problem to take care of sooner than later.

square1 · Aug 22, 2015

I'm not going into detail, but it cost thousands of dollars to get a neighbor off my property and I still have to readjust hie attempts to move into my property after a court decision against him. Put up the fence now and defend your property line with obvious maintenance. If you have to tell the neighbor something a second time put it IN WRITING and do so as often as necessary.

Garandman · Aug 22, 2015

I'm always amazed that others want, even expect, to benefit from the use of your property.

SARG · Aug 22, 2015

Rule number six>>> Three out of ten humans suck.
Your neighbor sounds like he is in that thirty per cent.
I would definitely mark off your property line so it is obviously marked and not allow any encroachment. If you planned on a fence now is the time.

Got2BTru · Aug 22, 2015

I appreciate the feedback everyone. I get back next weekend and I'll look into SOME type of fencing. In speaking with our town code officer, he said a farm fence housing animals can be ON the property line, but a farm fence NOT housing animals has to be 2' off of the property line. So if I put a cow/sheep out there for an hour a year, I'm good, right? :laughing:

I can tell he's trying to take advantage...and I'm not stupid, that's why I talked with the code officer (though my understanding of setbacks, etc. was already spot on). What I DIDN'T (or forgot to) mention is that he initially told me that he felt his property line went back an additional 20-30 feet and that the surveyor made a mistake. Even the code officer said that he would need to take that up with his surveyor and if there had been a discrepancy, I would have been notified.

Anyhow...I think I'll look into 5" posts every 8-10 feet and then decide on the wire/strands placement. Didn't want to spend the $$$ on this now, but looks like I'll have to. 720 feet of fencing will not be cheap!