Needing a transit/level.......any advice.

[moeh1]

I went the Ebay route years ago for a reasonably priced used transit to layout for a home foundation. Made the measuring stick out of a busted tape measure screwed onto light gauge metal length of kindorf. A tripod was donated. I (and the neighbors) have gotten more use out of this than I ever imagined possible when I bought it. It is easy to keep around if you don't have alot invested...

 

[patrick_g]

Marty, I'm sorry but I looked at 8-10 Kindorf "hits" in Google and didn't find out what it means besides a brand of conduit clamps and special electrical "scafolding." Is kindorf AKA rigid thin wall conduit?

Anyway, sounds like you did good getting a transit. If you are just shooting grades and elevations and not depending on accurate angular mesurements (for trignometric calculations) then a pretty darned cheap transit will do as well as a seriously expensive one (so long as you can get a decent level adjustment.

Pat

 

[HomeBrew2]

I have used just about every kind of transit and level and think the IR units that use a detector on your pole (audio and visual indicatioin) is the cat's meow but pricey. ...

Please bear with me. I'm a recovering-surveyor and trying figger out what you're saying here.

I've lived a sheltered life so, I am unaware of any IR "LEVELS". I'd love to learn more about such things though. (assuming IR = infrared) All this po' bo' has seen is laser levels, ie, amplified visible light, either rotating or dot.

In case you're refering to an EDM and theodolite or, a "total station", which, for non-ultra-long-distance, use IR, and I agree with their usefulness. (Don't know what an IR "detector" is though, unless you mean prism or other "reflector".) But, in such a case, we are then talking about trig levels. If so, cool, that's happenin' for me. Attached is a pic of my modest "transit" earning it's keep today.

Cheers!

PS, I think the previous poster made a typo. Hope that helps you

 

[HomeBrew2]

I have used just about every kind of transit and level and think the IR units that use a detector on your pole (audio and visual indicatioin) is the cat's meow but pricey. ...

Please bear with me. I'm a recovering-surveyor and trying figger out what you're saying here.

I've lived a sheltered life so, I am unaware of any IR "LEVELS". I'd love to learn more about such things though. (assuming IR = infrared) All this po' bo' has seen is laser levels, ie, amplified visible light, either rotating or dot.

In case you're refering to an EDM and theodolite or, a "total station", which, for non-ultra-long-distance, use IR, and I agree with their usefulness. (Don't know what an IR "detector" is though, unless you mean prism or other "reflector".) But, in such a case, we are then talking about trig levels. If so, cool, that's happenin' for me. Attached is a pic of my modest "transit" earning it's keep today.

Cheers!

PS, I think the previous poster made a typo. Hope that helps you

 

[HomeBrew2]

I have used just about every kind of transit and level and think the IR units that use a detector on your pole (audio and visual indicatioin) is the cat's meow but pricey. ...

Please bear with me. I'm a recovering-surveyor and trying figger out what you're saying here.

I've lived a sheltered life so, I am unaware of any IR "LEVELS". I'd love to learn more about such things though. (assuming IR = infrared) All this po' bo' has seen is laser levels, ie, amplified visible light, either rotating or dot.

In case you're refering to an EDM and theodolite or, a "total station", which, for non-ultra-long-distance, use IR, and I agree with their usefulness. (Don't know what an IR "detector" is though, unless you mean prism or other "reflector".) But, in such a case, we are then talking about trig levels. If so, cool, that's happenin' for me. Attached is a pic of my modest "transit" earning it's keep today.

Cheers!

PS, I think the previous poster made a typo. Hope that helps you

 

[caver]

Marty, I'm sorry but I looked at 8-10 Kindorf "hits" in Google and didn't find out what it means besides a brand of conduit clamps and special electrical "scafolding." Is kindorf AKA rigid thin wall conduit?
Pat

Some electricians call Unistrut, Kindorf. Of course Unistrut is also a trade name.

 

[DDT]

I have watching the e bay very close. The used ones are I think worth there money I think, but there is a dealer selling new DW073KD for $200. This do have the clamp and detector (KD model) Since they are a dewalt dealer the 3 yr warrintee is good. If I have not been lead down the wrong trail this should work for me. They do not include the tripod darn-it.
Does this all sound right?

 

[patrick_g]

Please bear with me. I'm a recovering-surveyor and trying figger out what you're saying here.

I've lived a sheltered life so, I am unaware of any IR "LEVELS". I'd love to learn more about such things though. (assuming IR = infrared)

I'm not a surveyor which is a good thing for the world of surveys. One of my contractors showed up on site with a self leveling rotating LASER level that was IR (NOT VISIBLE LIGHT, EVEN AT NIGHT) You had to use the receiver thingy on the pole to detect the beam. The receiver looked like the "regular" ones to me but I'm not a pro. It indicated when you were high or low and was pretty difficult to satisfy and get the "right on " audio signal. He was going on about how superior it was: more accurate, smaller rotating dot, higher collimation, greater range, worked better through dust and smoke (the one benefit of IR I recognized) and I don't recall whatever else he went on about except he said it was quite pricey. I don't know how he defines pricey.

I think if you didn't have any dust or smoke on site the only benefit would be greater range at higher accuracy and bragging rights because it cost more or was new and lemon scented or whatever. I personally don't see how getting a foundatioin or whatever closer than 1/4 inch end to end at 20, 50, or 100 ft is a big deal. I personally don't have an instrument but have a friend who was an Army surveyor who drags his out when I need it. I can use my attachments on a couple hundred feet of garden hose and get within 0.1 inch or better in elevation within a couple hundred feet. Longer hose will work just fine but since you are dragging it around filled with water, longer lengths and multiple setups gets to be a chore.

Pat

 

[moeh1]

Pat,
Kindorf ( at least that is what we call it) is a rectangular kinda -C shaped metal, but it has small lips on the open side that do accept a bunch of specialized inserts. They have one version that is roughly 1-1/4" by 5/8" rectangle and 10' long - very stiff and still light. You can get it pretty cheap at any electrical supply house.
If you already have a busted tape measure lying around, you have a good measuring stick.
I really only used it for grade, I have 100' and 200' tapes and use the 3/4/5 rule or measure diagonals for square.
I used an IR setup once, wasn't thrilled becuase you have to get the IR detector to the beam, then guess how far the bottom is from the ground...Might be great for some folks, I didn't like it.
Best transit use I ever had was laying out the barn foundation wall stakes to hold cement - just kept pounding down til the transit guy said stop, screwed the plywood to the tops of the stakes - all done. We when quick on that job!
best of luck,

 

[HomeBrew2]

I'm not a surveyor ...

... self leveling rotating LASER level that was IR (NOT VISIBLE LIGHT, EVEN AT NIGHT) ... Pat

Fair enough ... technically, I'm not a surveyor either (no ticket) ... which might make both of us dangerous

Very interesting. I'll check out the IR laser. Thank you for the info.

PS, I did not intend my response to be in triplicate ... an undocumented feature of TBN, I guess.

Cheers!

 

[patrick_g]

Marty, I think I know what you mean now. Wireways on ships are often done out in the open for good access. The support members transverse to the direction of travel of the cables are sort of "C" channel but heavier than typical "C" purlin material for steel buildings. I never toss out a broken tape measure, even when I seem to be accumulating them entirely too fast. I cut them up and use them for various projects.

I don't ordinarily use the angle readings on a transit. I have used an astronomical sextant held sideways for reading angles really precisely (way better than most transits will do.)

I don't recall what class it was, some sort of physical science or physics survey course (I was a freshman) that actually sent us out around the campus in teams of 3 with a transit to survey and reduce the sightings with trigonometry but that was a long time ago, in an earlier century.

I too use the 3-4-5 thing and equal diagonals as the fastest most practical way for me. and I do use a water level to good advantage. I have a 100 and 300 ft tape and have used then simultaneously to good advantage. Bought a $10 laser level but the "dot" seems to expand with distance as fast as a cylinder bore shotgun firing #9.

HomeBrew2, About the triplicate message... I worked at a Government (DoD/Navy) lab so I'm used to triplicate. I ate one copy and burned one copy for security reasons and posted one on the bulletin board as a part of our new OPEN COMMUNICATIONS POLICY.

I make no claim whatsoever to having ever been a surveyor. I have been exposed to those who were and if pressed could do something resembling survey work (sort of.) Not all card carrying members of the surveying priesthood are particularly good at what they do. My abstract deed has a less and except section that describes a 350x150 ft "cookie bite" out of my property that is registered separately. If you assiduously follow the instructions you don't find the pins because the PROFESSIONAL surveyor made an error. He ASSUMED this section to be a mile by a mile but it is LARGER. He missed the mark by nearly 6 ft. The area enclosed is correct just nearly 6 ft off E-W. This has been a PITA off and on for 7 yrs but may be resolved soon.

The IR units require a detector to read beam height. Some think that is a hassle. Many pros don't. All my subs use some sort of rotating self leveling laser than is not visible in daylight (mostly didn't try at night.) The usually less expensive visible LASER units are hard to read in bright sunlight much of the time, even with the "MAGIC" red glasses if you are very far from the LASER. They are terrific in subdued light as you can see the rotating spot quite well. I have never seen any of the big time outfits use them. Don't know why.

I have built LASERS in my garage years ago you could see in the bright daylight. Even a blind man could find the beam as it was about 6-10 thousand Watts peak power and would raise a blister on flesh like you had touched an oxy-acetylene torch to it. It was a pulse output and would only fire once every several seconds but it could have reached all over a building site. You wouldn't need special glasses or subdud lighting. It would make its own mark, you wouldn't need a pencil or soapstone.

Pat

 

[BTDT]

"Caution: Do not look into laser with remaining eye."

I was at a trophy shop that has one of the laser engravers for plaques, and the machine was working. I made the comment to the guy running it "I bet that could make a nice looking tatoo." He wasn't amused.

 

[bluetc30]

i have a dewalt rotary laser i bought at lowes for 349 it works great and it will take any size dewalt battery for it i forget the range it has but it goes pretty far. i wuold buy another. i use inside and out great for cabinets.and the bright sunlight doesnt distort it

 

[Boomerang1]

I have a Lasermark rotating laser that works well indoors or on a cloudy day without using the reciever. The reciever is a must on a sunny day. One of the most important things to look at when purchasing a laser or transit is type of tripod. Try to spend the extra money and get a wooden one instead of aluminum. The wooden tripod will stay in adjustment better because it will not be affected by temperature change like aluminum. With an aluminum tripod you always have to check the adjustment as the temperature changes throughout the day.

 

[patrick_g]

California, A friend of mine hung a poster on the home brew 15 thousand volt DC power supply for the pulse LASER. It was paraphrasing Consumer Reports, "Guaranteed lethal, first time every time!"

Just because you can't see the LASER beam doesn't mean you are safe. IR LASERS like the high power CO lasers can do you in and you can't see the beam. The bad news is if the enclosure of a machine like an engraver has any light leaks you could be injured or blinded or just develop cataracts prematurely and not know why. (Microwaves do that to you too.)

Boomerang, The rotary lasers my subs used were auto-leveling and always relevel themselves every time they are cycled. Since they all turned the units off between uses the machine woiuld always self level again when turned on. Thanks for the heads up though, I wouldn't want that to bite me. I have enough problems without a LASER level that isn't. I'll have to remember to purposely cycle the off/on switch to force an auto-relevel. I hear you about the wood tripod but I have never seen one in use with any of my subs.

The most sensitive tripod use for me is not a LASER level but something much more demanding. Luckily the night time temps don't ordinarily change so fast and even then the temps change equally for all legs not like the uneven heating you can get in bright sun. I don't do long term exposure solar photography (plenty of light) but do extended exposures in astrophotography and having one tripod leg grow or shrink faster than another would be a fair source of error.

Pat

 

[HomeBrew2]

... HomeBrew2, ... The IR units require a detector to read beam height. ... Pat

Well, I'm afraid that I have had no luck finding any IR laser levels via online search. An obvious failing of mine. I will continue my quest, in the absence of any helpful links from you. Purely from my perspective, I know of no visible-light [rotating] laser levels that are "usable" without a detector for the rod. Of course, one "can" get away using one in subdued light, without a detector, as you note ... great for in the house or while watching submarine races

 

[patrick_g]

Homebrew2, Sorry but I have no clue as to a source. Maybe there are outfits who cater to users of this sort of equipment (not Lowes or Menards or Home Depot.) All I know about them is what the owner/user of the equipment told me who while bubbling over with enthusiasm for their SUPERIOR tool. They could have run it on trained lightning bugs for all I know.

I do know that NO ONE ever showed up with red glasses, the better to see the beam with irrespective of the type of rotary laser level they had. Everyone had detectors on their stick.

In retrospect, I don't see how OSHA or whoever cares about workers eye safety would let a MFG put out a stronger beam in IR than visible. Any range advantage would have to be due to the IR's longer wavelength's ability to penetrate "contaminated" air with dust, smoke, or whatever.

Pat

 

[HomeBrew2]

... They could have run it on trained lightning bugs for all I know.

... Any range advantage would have to be due to the IR's longer wavelength's ability to penetrate "contaminated" air with dust, smoke, or whatever.

Pat

Ok, if you don't really know, I guess that's that. I was in hopes of learning something. I know IR works great in EDM's, such as mine.

The Trimble/Spectra GL4xx (probably not found at Home Depot or Lowes) visible-light laser boasts an impressive max range of 2600'. Not sure how much more range a person could actually use.

 

[Egon]

Just use one of these. I'm sure you will find one to suit the purpose.

Wild Levels for every leveling task - technical data