need to vent

[89cummins174]

<div class="bbWrapper">called the dealer today and express my concerns with the jobi had done on friday and he said he is going to investigate why the price is what it is and the amount of hours in the job. you know it is good that i had to wait to today to talk to him b/c if this was saterday he may have not taken me as seriously. well now i am at the point if he wants to do somthing about this past job fine, if not then i will have to move on from here and just take this as a life lesson. i can get service manuals at messicks right?????</div>

 

[JRobyn]

<div class="bbWrapper">There are many posts in this thread suggesting that getting an estimate in advance would have prevented this issue. I&#039;d like to know how that is??? I hate to think of how many times I have obtained an &quot;estimate&quot; for some work and then had the final price be significantly higher. There&#039;s always a whole litany of excuses (once in a while valid ones) for why the original estimate was exceeded. I seem to recall enough similar threads on this forum to know that I&#039;m not the only person that this has ever happened to! <br /> <br /> Particularly since it appears that many posters beleive that this dealer is not the most scrupulous, of what value would a pre-estimate from him of been?<br /> <br /> - Jay</div>

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

<div class="bbWrapper">Was the shop slow at the time? Often what seems to happen is that mechanics work slower when there is not another job in the queue for them to jump to. We would have done that in about 90 minutes.</div>

 

[ray66v]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 7857" data-quote="JRobyn" data-source="post: 1520063" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=1520063" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-1520063">JRobyn said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> There are many posts in this thread suggesting that getting an estimate in advance would have prevented this issue. I&#039;d like to know how that is??? I hate to think of how many times I have obtained an &quot;estimate&quot; for some work and then had the final price be significantly higher. There&#039;s always a whole litany of excuses (once in a while valid ones) for why the original estimate was exceeded. I seem to recall enough similar threads on this forum to know that I&#039;m not the only person that this has ever happened to! <br /> <br /> Particularly since it appears that many posters beleive that this dealer is not the most scrupulous, of what value would a pre-estimate from him of been?<br /> <br /> - Jay </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> An estimate is not the best way to get a price, and does still leave the door open for further charges. An estimate is necessary, in some cases, because of unknown factors like hidden damage. <br /> <br /> The best way to do this job, is with an agreed price. An agreed price is not an estimate. It can be variable, if agreed upon in advance. But, it is a binding contract to do the work as agreed. <br /> <br /> For example, you <i>normally</i> initially get an agreed price, not an estimate, when you build a house. <br /> <br /> If a guy says he will paint your house, as agreed by the two of you, for $2000. That&#039;s not an estimate, that&#039;s an agreed price. Its a binding contract. He can&#039;t charge you more, unless you agree to it. <br /> <br /> Even in cases where an estimate is required, a competent business man will still be able to give you a rough idea of the cost.<br /> <br /> If he received and estimate, of $100 for example, and got presented with a bill for $250, without receiving any notice, or option to back out, the judge is going to find in his favor. <br /> <br /> There are crooks out there. Another reason you need to protect yourself. <br /> <br /> You can&#039;t decide they will get you no matter what, so why try. <br /> <br /> Probably the majority of these discrepancies are misunderstandings that could have been avoided with a clear conversation.</div>

 

[Matt_Jr]

<div class="bbWrapper">I&#039;ve been working in the automotive field for over 13 years professionally and almost 20 years total. I&#039;ve read through this entire thread and found much I disagree with and much I agree with. <br /> <br /> Most companies that drop off equipment don&#039;t care how much a repair costs, just how long it will take to get the repair done. Same with modifications. The faster, the more they&#039;ll be willing to pay. Homeowners are the opposite. They want it done the cheapest possible and are willing to wait to a degree to get it done a little cheaper. Not forever but a couple days to save a hundred bucks isn&#039;t out of the question for most. Home owners almost always want to know how much unless they have complete trust in the repair facility. That trust comes from years of relationship building. Relationships are like rare expensive vases. Once broken they can never be put back together the same as they were.<br /> <br /> Soldier and heat shrink on tractors, boats, cars, trucks, done like NASA or like a trained technician is WAY better than some piece of crap butt-connecter that is crimped with no insulation from the elements. It looks bad and is unprofessional IMHO. Crimping should only be done if heat shrink is used or out of the weather in low amperage circuits. <br /> <br /> Wire colors-A/C voltage like in a house or business<br /> black-hot<br /> white-nuetral<br /> copper/bare-ground<br /> <br /> DC like in a car/truck<br /> red-hot/B+<br /> Black-ground<br /> <br /> On utility trailers or motor homes<br /> Black-B+<br /> White-ground<br /> Blue-brakes<br /> others are for lights <br /> <br /> I do mostly electrical, engine performance, and electronic controlled transmission diagnostics. I get 50% of the labor rate at the shop I work at. Thats 80 to 100 bucks an hour labor rate(40-50 bucks an hour to me for that type of work) &#039;cause most techs either can&#039;t or don&#039;t want to do it. I apreciate the extra pay for the extra time and tools I buy to do this type of work. I get asked to fix stuff that other shops turn away. I have built up a reputation for my electrical diagnostics and custom electrical work. However, a simple installation of a couple lights, relay, and switches shouldn&#039;t have cost more than 250 bucks. That would be $125 to me for about 3 hours of work for a clean install. Not making any brackets.<br /> I think the OP got ripped off for the work performed. This should have taken a maximum of three hours for the electrical work. At $75 an hour that&#039;s $225. <br /> I would have to vent too. <br /> <br /> We all have lessons to learn. Some will have been discovered by others and shown to us. The others we must learn the hard way.</div>

 

[gemini5362]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 23735" data-quote="CurlyDave" data-source="post: 1519940" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=1519940" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-1519940">CurlyDave said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I have built a few things for NASA, and for &quot;other&quot; branches of the US Government. A fair amount of it is still on orbit. <br /> <br /> I recognize the possibility of a soldered connection which is not subject to the usual problems of solder wicking and vibration sensitivity. OTOH, if you really think you are going to find NASA-certified technicians and techniques in your average tractor repair shop I would like you to send me some of that stuff you have been smoking -- it is pretty powerful.<br /> <br /> If you really want to solder stranded wire for your tractor at home, strain relieve it with more than one piece of heat shrink, which extend about 3&quot; beyond the joint on each side for the first piece and maybe 2.5&quot; for the second one. I have never seen a shop do anything close to this. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> On the other hand I have had problems with crimp connections that I make at home. I have been trained on the correct way to make crimp connections and I know that a critical element of that is to have the correct crimper. We had a huge box with the correct crimping tool for each individual crimp that we did. most tractor shops will probably have mechanics that use a pair of pliers to crimp. If you are lucky maybe they will have the one size fits all crimpers. Even with wicking I have not had any trouble with my soldered connections. Of course if we really want to get this thread smoking I can recommend that you use Wire Nuts and make sure to twist the wires before putting them on.</div>

 

[Matt_Jr]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 25218" data-quote="gemini5362" data-source="post: 1520417" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=1520417" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-1520417">gemini5362 said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Of course if we really want to get this thread smoking I can recommend that you use Wire Nuts and make sure to twist the wires before putting them on. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> YIKES!!!</div>

 

[gemini5362]

<div class="bbWrapper">I had some work done on a car and I dont remember where it was but the shop gave me an estimate in advance the estimate quoted state law that repairs required an estimate in writing. If the repair was more than 20 per cent of the estimate the customer had to be contacted and give permission for the increased cost of the repair. Seemed like a good system to me. Saves this kind of thing from happening. People are assuming that the dealer is a rip off but we dont know that for sure. We hopefully will find out by what the dealer does about the problem. The original job may have been given to someone that was new and very slow. It might have been given to an employee that had questionable work habbits that is no longer in the dealers employee. There are a lot of reasons for what appears to be a bill that is too high. I for one am waiting to see what the dealer does or says.</div>

 

[Volfandt]

<div class="bbWrapper">One thing is certain, theres ALWAYS exceptions to the so-called rules.....<br /> <br /> Working around both the automotive and telecommunications industries for longer than I care to admit, I&#039;ve seen solder joints fail, crimp joints fail, clamp joints fail and wirenut joints fail. Than again, I&#039;ve seen all of these types of connectors perform as designed in some of the most critical environments imaginable.<br /> <br /> My basic rules of thumb, (but are subject to change due to space and parts availabilty limitations)<br /> <br /> solid strand wire 20 ga &amp; up (smaller), solder 1st, std crimp 2nd<br /> solid strand wire 20 gauge &amp; down (larger), clamp crimp, std crimp, solder if possible.<br /> stranded wire 20 ga &amp; up (smaller), std crimp, clamp crimp, solder.<br /> stranded wire 20 ga and down (larger), clamp crimp, std crimp.<br /> <br /> re OP&#039;s post,<br /> I do agree that some sort of discussion should have been had upfront concerning cost. Since the job was a &quot;customization&quot; an estimate would have been good enough since this would have then required an explaination of why the costs escalated. This wasn&#039;t that shops 1st tango so they should have been able to get real close w/an estimate.<br /> <br /> As has been pointed out, the shop may have been slow and the tech put down his actual time and with everyone feeling these hard times and wanting to justify their existance, the service writer and/or book-keeper, the one responsible for totaling the ticket, must have went by what the tech put down and went with this &quot;std&quot; hourly charge. My guess is a &quot;book-keeper&quot; type person totaled the bill as anyone with detailed knowledge of a shop&#039;s goings-on would have known that the price was WAY too high for the services rendered. <br /> Since the OP has brought this to the owners attention, I would be very surprised if they don&#039;t drop the price by atleast $150.00. But then again I&#039;m just speculating but have seen this type of situation many times before.<br /> <br /> If the shop doesn&#039;t adjust the price, I wouldn&#039;t want to do any business with them in the future.<br /> <br /> Good luck</div>

 

[ray66v]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 26312" data-quote="Matt_Jr" data-source="post: 1520413" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=1520413" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-1520413">Matt_Jr said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Soldier and heat shrink on tractors, boats, cars, trucks, done like NASA or like a trained technician is WAY better than some piece of crap butt-connector. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Amen, I learned this many years ago, (the hard way), wiring trailers. If you only want to do it once, (A) Solder it, and shrink it. (B) Run ground wires. (No body, or frame grounds). Never fails to last; if done properly.</div>

 

[radioman]

<div class="bbWrapper">Sigh- so far half of us noticed the lights were mounted sideways and those who did noticed diasgreed with that . I do too. Once upon a time, I had my top half of ROPS removed since tree branches and garage door hieght was a problem. I used the bolt holes from the bottom half of rops for place to mount my lights. I used it like that for one winter and I HATED it. reason is of the long beam throw up and down , not sideways for best viewing. The worst reason of all was when turning head sideways i would have light blinding me when looking backwards. This year, I added on a 15X22 garage with taller garage doors, put rops back on, Made my own bracket at the top and added lights so its showing a nice sweeping pattern and it SOO much better. My point of this story is that with the light dispersion issues, If the shop refuse to refund at least half of the money, they should at least redo the work for free and move the light mounts at the top for better lighting pattern. (what was the real reason why they mounted on the side? Was it OP request ?) Even if OP requested side mounts, he can say he not happy with the way it was mounted and have the shop redo the work for free. AT 500 bucks , OH yeah they better redo it ! So far some of us have said he been ripped off. This is enough to raise OP blood boiling point even higher, i know it would for me. Hopefully he can get some resolution from this. After all this is probably his only dealer and both the shop and OP need some sort of closure.<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" /> good luck OP - I&#039;m pulling for you.</div>

 

[stupakmike]

<div class="bbWrapper">Set of lights from walmart..... $18.00 included wire.<br /> scrap metal from work for brackets...... free<br /> hours to install....... 1 1/2<br /> being out in the garage without wife around .... priceless!!</div>

 

[gemini5362]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 58804" data-quote="stupakmike" data-source="post: 1521479" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=1521479" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-1521479">stupakmike said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Set of lights from walmart..... $18.00 included wire.<br /> scrap metal from work for brackets...... free<br /> hours to install....... 1 1/2<br /> being out in the garage without wife around .... priceless!! </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> AMEN to that</div>

 

[gemini5362]

<div class="bbWrapper">I am trying to think what that kind of money will buy you when you have work done on a vehicle. My kubota b6200 needed a clutch the price tag for that was 600.00 including the new clutch which was about 125.00 of the price. That involved breaking the tractor in half and removal of a lot of parts to do that. My friend had to have his sons jeep wiring harness rewired that was about 600 including the wiring. To me adding some wiring and a switch for those lights should have been a 100.00 job. I know I am going to get flamed for that but we are not talking rocket science or rebuilding the drive train. It was a very simple job and from the pictures that got posted was done as cheaply as could be done with no thought to appearance.</div>

 

[dodge man]

<div class="bbWrapper">I have to agree with others. I originally had mine mounted vertically, and the patern really sucked. I rotated them 90 degrees and it was much better. I mounted mine on the side of the ROPS, mainly because I was worried about breaking them off the top on branches and what not. It does kind of blind you from the side.</div>

 

[stupakmike]

<div class="bbWrapper">Mounted mine under rops. better protected, plus get under garage door.</div>

 

[89cummins174]

<div class="bbWrapper">I can the dealer back today. We talked about what a fair price would be and why the extra work. He said they had to use dioeds???? spelling??? for the style for flood light that I use. So end result he said he is going to see if they can take 1 hour off the bill which means 75 dollars back, and bring the bill to 475 in stead off 550. better then nothing and this doesnt mean i have to go back to him for service. there is another kubota dealer 17 miles away, shame to cuz he was just 4 miles away.<br /> <br /> I just want to thank everyone that offered their opinon to my post.</div>

 

[wushaw]

<div class="bbWrapper">Diodes?? Aren&#039;t they just an incadesent or halogen bulbs, Ask him to show you where they are so you know where/what to look for when one fails.<br /> <br /> Crimps or solder....good thing we have choices. Although it does look like they used AMP crimpers.</div>

 

[MikeInEburg]

<div class="bbWrapper">Diode is a &quot;one way&quot; device for DC voltage - only allows current to flow in one direction. Don&#039;t know why it was necessary, but I don&#039;t know all of the particulars of equipment used.<br /> Mike</div>

 

[638]

<div class="bbWrapper">I would not only ask him where they are at, I would ask him why they think they are necessary, and what happened to the system before they were installed.</div>