3-Point Hitch Need to Remove 47 Backhoe and Rockshaft Won't Move

[Dws1602d]

Greetings to the venerable John Deere tractor experts and gurus. I apologize if this has been covered in the past but my searches could not unveil the answer to this challenge.
I just became a first time tractor owner purchasing a used 4200 TLB with about 1030 hours. It came from a Portland electric utility company and apparently the Deere 47 backhoe had never been removed. I also picked up a Bush Hog and rollover box blade but I am unable to remove the backhoe to try them out. I went over the instructions carefully but the rockshaft will not move. I have tried adjusting the drop speed valve under the seat but to no avail. When I move the rockshaft control lever nothing happens and I don't hear any noise like you would expect from applying a load on the pump or the relief valve. I pulled off the seat to check the linkage to the rockshaft control arm and the drop valve and all seems intact and functioning. There are some light hammer marks on one side of the curved stop plate at the end of the control shaft as if someone had banged on it a few times to loosen something up. Is it possible that there is a valve or internal linkage that is stuck? If that is all it were I would thnk I could hear something going on with the hydraulic pump. Power seems good except with backhoe but that is probably not related and should be good for another post.
I could drive 4 miles to the nearest Deere dealer but it is harvest time so they are swamped, and besides, I wanted to do this myself. I didn't have the service manual so I now have one on order.
Any individual or collective wisdom would be greatly appreciated! I'm hoping this is a common problem with the 4XX0 series tractors and easy to fix.
Again I have a John Deere 4200 HST with 420 loader and 47 backhoe and the rockshaft is stuck in the up position.

Thanks a bunch.
DonS

 

[chris42]

I had a similar problem with my JD 110 TLB and Disney had the answer. It may be your answer too - On my machine the backhoe was designed with the rest of the machine, it is not a 3 point attachment, yours might be different.

On mine there is a micro switch on the back that gets pushed when the backhoe is in place. Remove the backhoe and the switch should move and allow the rockshaft to be moved with the control lever. I found the switch (about the size of a pack of cigarettes) very close to a mounting point on the back right side (as you are looking to the front of the tractor). I wiggled the contact a bit and all was well.

See if you have such a switch -

 

[Egon]

You may have to disconnect the backhoe hydraulics and open the valve behind your right foot.

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

My experience was with a 447 BH on a 3320 so maybe the mounting is all different. IIRC when Power Beyond is properly hooked up, to the BH - the Rockshaft becomes inoperative. On mine there were two large pins that secured the BH frame to the tractor mounting plates. First place the bucket, flat side on the ground and then use the Stabilizer arms to adjust the BH (usually slightly up) so you can remove the two pins. Push the 3pth control lever to full down and then use the Stabilizer arms to lower the BH to the ground. Disconnect the lines to the BH and reconnect the PB loop and you should now have 3 pth movement and the BH is off.

In theory, with the lines to the BH disconnected and PB reconnected to the tractor the Rockshaft is "supposed" to lift the BH for installation on to the tractor or in the reverse lift the BH enough to remove the pins and then drop the BH down to the ground. In many cases it has been found it will not lift high enough to install / remove the BH and it is necessary to use the Stabilizer arms for that final fraction of an inch.

Hopefully I have remembered this reasonably correctly and typed so it is reasonably understandable.
Hope this helps.

 

[Dws1602d]

I had a similar problem with my JD 110 TLB and Disney had the answer. It may be your answer too - On my machine the backhoe was designed with the rest of the machine, it is not a 3 point attachment, yours might be different.

On mine there is a micro switch on the back that gets pushed when the backhoe is in place. Remove the backhoe and the switch should move and allow the rockshaft to be moved with the control lever. I found the switch (about the size of a pack of cigarettes) very close to a mounting point on the back right side (as you are looking to the front of the tractor). I wiggled the contact a bit and all was well.

See if you have such a switch -

Thanks for the idea Chris42. (BTW - I've seen the JD110 tlb and hat's an awesome machine!). I have looked my backhoe over pretty thouroughly and haven't seen any switches. I do have the operators manual for the hoe but it says nothing about a switch. In theory the dismounting operation seems pretty simple "place backhoe in stable position, disconnect backhoe hydraulics, connect Power Beyond, lift backhoe with rockshaft to loosen/remove L-pins, lower rockshaft arms, drive away! but the key appears to be getting the rockshaft to raise and lower. I thought perhaps my tanny had to be in neutral but that didn't help either.
DonS

 

[Dws1602d]

You may have to disconnect the backhoe hydraulics and open the valve behind your right foot.

Thanks Egon but not sure I understand what "open the valve behind your right foot" means? I have tried disconnecting the backhoe and hooking up the Power Beyond line several times to make sure I have a positive connection.
DonS

 

[Dws1602d]

My experience was with a 447 BH on a 3320 so maybe the mounting is all different. IIRC when Power Beyond is properly hooked up, to the BH - the Rockshaft becomes inoperative. On mine there were two large pins that secured the BH frame to the tractor mounting plates. First place the bucket, flat side on the ground and then use the Stabilizer arms to adjust the BH (usually slightly up) so you can remove the two pins. Push the 3pth control lever to full down and then use the Stabilizer arms to lower the BH to the ground. Disconnect the lines to the BH and reconnect the PB loop and you should now have 3 pth movement and the BH is off.

In theory, with the lines to the BH disconnected and PB reconnected to the tractor the Rockshaft is "supposed" to lift the BH for installation on to the tractor or in the reverse lift the BH enough to remove the pins and then drop the BH down to the ground. In many cases it has been found it will not lift high enough to install / remove the BH and it is necessary to use the Stabilizer arms for that final fraction of an inch.

Hopefully I have remembered this reasonably correctly and typed so it is reasonably understandable.
Hope this helps.

Thanks CinderSchnauzer (beautiful dog!).
The process you described is very similar to the one my backhoe manual provides. My backhoe is also attached via a special mounting frame and held on with 2 L-pins and the rockshaft only works when the backhoe hydraulics are disconnected. If I have to, I know I can remove the backhoe with my 2 ton chain-hoist but I am more interested in getting the rockshaft to work than I am removing the backhoe unless it has to be removed to reach and correct the problem. Also, I suspect the rockshaft has to be working to use the 3PH and, ultimately, my other implements.
I should also mention that I have already opened up the rockshaft check valve and found nothing irregular. If anyone knows more about the guts (valves, etc) of the 4200 I suspect I might still find the problem there. It seems reasonable that, after several years of inactivity, a valve could stick or a line could get clogged and never be noticed?
DonS

 

[Dws1602d]

BTW - I did find another post where the gentleman had the same symptoms with his 4200 but he discovered it was simply a loose hydraulic hose connection and everything was fine. I had great hopes that this was my problem too because I had observed a small amount of fluid leaking from my quick connector. Unfortunately, I've tried connecting and disconnecting the Power Beyond several times and it hasn't helped. There's gotta be something I'm doing wrong!
DonS

 

[Egon]

Black knob in the middle. With backhoe on it should be closed. Backhoe off open.


Do search on this site. You should find a thread with the same problem.

 

[sunnyside360]

I suspect you have the same classic problem a lot of the 3x20 and 4x20 tractor series have with the Backhoe and I've had the same issue. That is the 3ph lift arms will not lift the BH high enough to allow L bolt removal/insertion. Some folks have adjusted the up stop setting on the 3ph lift arms to get more lift. I've done this on one of mine. I've also fixed another by putting bushings on the 3ph lift arms where they fit into the BH slots. I used the bushings for converting from cat 1 to cat 2 3ph available from Tractor Supply for a couple of bucks and this works fine if you only need a fraction of an inch.