Need to dig a small diameter well...

[DaveInColorado]

I live in the smack dab middle of this medium-sized city, and we even have regular irrigation water through normal mostly unlined ditches. As a consequence of the unlined ditches, I get a 30' x 20' area of the yard that is soft from underground water coming out of the slope at that location. I won't go into all the details, but the short story is that I'm pretty sure that I can legally get away with putting in a 10-20' deep well into the underground layer of gravel. The goal is to eventually have 24-hours per day water availability for my backyard landscape projects as well as make that part of the yard more useful.

Can I use a regular category 1 posthole digger on my little tractor (Kubota BX1500 - should pull 400 lbs out at the end of the pivot) with extensions to get down that deep? I have a welder and can build almost anything - but am new to tractors in general. I will gladly risk a $100 auger being stuck in the ground in exchange for the possibility of having a good source of free water.

I tried driving a well point down but went too far past the gravel and now it is stuck in clay and someday I'll get it out, but not today. I hope to put in a 4" perforated pipe then drop a regular 1.5" PVC line down the hole direct to a pump. I could also be convince to put in a regular well pump.

Long story - I put in two 6' deep trenches a couple of years ago, filled with gravel, and redirected some of the water into my pond. I hit a 2' deep section of gravel on top of clay and concluded that was why the water came out where it did. I suspect that most of the water is being missed and I should have a good availability for standard garden use. I don't expect or need 50gpm. 5gpm would be OK.

I would rather not hire someone - just in case I have to cover my tracks.

 

[Deerlope]

I really don't know, But it sounds like you have thought this out very well. If it were me I would try it. the only problem that I see is that every 5ft of auger you would have to pull it up to get the dirt out. 4" pipe will have less than 1 gal. of water per foot. What means have you tryed to get the point back up to the level that you want? If you put some timber cribbing around the point and something on the top of the pipe to jack against, then get a couple if 20 ton bottle jacks you might be able to raise it.

 

[Egon]

Chances are you could use a manual post hole auger with 3 or 4 foot extensions to get to the depth you want. This would probably be much faster and cheaper than trying to use the pto auger.

My Grandfather and Father used to use a cable tool rig for water wells. They always started out by going down about 10 feet with a post hole auger and then putting in a piece of steel casing as a starting quide.

Egon

 

[Taylortractornut]

Dave I drilled to a spring like that but I used a small forklift mast on the back of a 4000 Ford tractor at work. I knew where the spring was and wanted a spring to irrigate the turkey plot. I just made a 3point mount to go onto the tractor and were the forks went made a mount to hold an old 4 speed gearbox with a hydraulic motor on the end of it and an adapter to hold some 1 1/4 inch pipe sections. I used the tractors hydraulics to lift the mast and used a pto pump to run the auger for speed. My auger was a reinforced hopper auger out of a cotton picker. with a heavy point I made.
Id screw a 10 foot section of pipe to the raised mast and then started the whole rig you can dump first section of with the tractor because it will lift all the way out. When the first section is done you lower the auger in the hole unscrew it then ad another section of pipe. I hade water from the first 4 feet down. If I drill another on Ill use 2 lengths of auger so I wont have as much work to do dumping it. The whole operation took 11 hours to dig the hole. Alot of it was adding things to it with my portable welder to make it more user friendly like adding chain hooks to the mast sides to hold the loose augers when I would detach sections. I was drilling in a similar ground condition like you. I sold my rig to a local green house owner that wanted to make a few spring wells. I salvaged everything on that machine from other dead machines so I had about 25 hours time invested in the drill.

 

[Deerlope]

I recall many years ago a farmer telling me the followng story. He said that he had a lot of cattle no money, & no water. So he went to the local hardware store and bought a 6" hand auger and 3, 21 ft. lenghts of pipe. What size I donnot recall. He then set up operations near the gable end of an old tool shed. Said that he managed to get down to 60ft.before he ran out of time. he said that he took the handle off the auger and had it threaded to match his pipe. when he had to add more pipe he would use the end of the shed to balance the 21ft piece of pipe. said that he never did get to water but the next year the bank gave him a loan to have a well drilled so he had the driller set up where he had started. the driller was amazed that the first 60ft of caseing slide right in with no problem at all. The farmer then told him what he had tryed to do and the driller gave him a dsicount on the first 60ft of well.HE TURNED THE AUGER WITH PIPE WRENCHES. 60FT.

 

[MDNick]

Deerlope,

When you started the story, I was thinking, old farmer? What did he use to turn that monstrosity? A pipe wrench. Got to the end and went yep. Hell of a man, I think I'd get bored and run out of time long before 60'.

Nick

 

[Deerlope]

About 35 years ago I was working as a service tech for a company called Agway. I am sure you have heard of them. I was about 25 years old at that time and this farmer was doing a major expansion on his farm. Agway had the contract and thats how I met him.He was not real old maybe around 45 or 50. But when you are 25 that 45 or 50 looks old. I am now 61 and I think of myself as young. Glad that you enjoyed the story. Working as a service tech doing farm repairs has giving me a lot of stories to tell.By the way that is a true story. I am sure the guy has passed away but the house and building are still there.

 

[rambler]

For 20', I would get a manual post hole digger. The auger type, not the clamshell. They come with a pipe handle. Buy 3 more sections of 6' pipe same size. Start augering. You might work up a few blisters, but it will be less work than trying to make a tractor auger go that deep & clean the hole, esp. in gravel.

By the way, dad did this, he went a good 30 ft deep. It's not that hard, only digging 6 post holes by hand.

If you are sinking a pump down the hole, make sure you use a big enough plastic shell.

--->Paul

 

[Deerlope]

Dave,
You got an interesting forum going here so please let us know what you decide to do.
Fred

 

[chim]

I'm sure you have addressed it, but for me it's hard to imagine enough water infiltrating the 4" pipe to provide a substantail supply................chim

 

[bobcat]

Dave
I've gone as far as 42 feet with with tha hand auger typ post hole diggers. But if you get down to the gravel and can't go farther if your in water just start pumping. If you're not in water then drive your point inside your caseing.
These shallow wells are worth the effort we have 3 off them on 6 acres. Good Luck Chris

 

[SPIKER]

I hit a gravel layer at about 4' deep at my place, below that is a mixture of gravel, rock & sandstone. above the layer is hard clay and gravel bits mixed in. dug pretty easy to that 4' point from there down it got much harder!.

I've got a 175' deep main house well which if you shower for more than 15 min will run dry. (mostly cause it was/is used very lithgly, not enough to keep the water pathways flowing.)

I'm planning on uning a couple septic tanks and burrying them by my barn and running rain awterinto them. with a trickel fill if they get very low. useing that awter with 2nd pump for yard & garden watering along with possably using it in the non-potable fixtures (through filters of corse).

I figure washing the cloths with filtered rain water is aobut 50 times better than our iron filled water at the farm.

anyhow I was thinking of using that 4' gravel layer too, it is surface water but hell it runs into anyhole you dig at that dept faster than you canget the gravel out.

I can make up a nice 20 foot 2" square tube frame work errect it and then use auger head and 1 1/2" pipe and use a electric gear driven motor on top to push the auger system into dirt pretty easy. system would look like 2 ladders standing up about 24" appart with cross braces that let the system slide down in between it. use electric cable puller looped over top end to pull up dirt & sections.

You could built it with all NEW parts for about 500 or so. Just as long as you can Weld and have a place to fabricat it at...

Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[EddieWalker]

One of my childhood horror stories was digging the well.

Dad used the clam shell auger and lengths of threaded pipe. It went down quick enough and turning was never a problem, but it took my dad, my two brothers and me to pull that thing out of the hole.

We dug next to our two story house and one brother was pulling from the second story window and I was on the roof. We tried a winch on a tripod to help, but at 30 feet we spent more time pulling it up than actually digging. I was about 14 at the time and my brothers were younger.

Good Luck,
Eddie

 

[Alan L.]

Wow, yall must really have some soft dirt where you're drilling wells with manual post hole diggers! Down here in North Texas, it dang near impossible to dig a post hole with one of those without having a heart attack in the process.

You know those 6 or 8 foot ground rods that you are supposed to drive into the ground? Around here, its like driving a noodle into concrete.

 

[DaveInColorado]

Great ideas! Gathering all the information into one bucket: I really like the suggestions about doing it by hand. I am expecting that I'll get 6' down and not be able to go farther through the clay with the hand auger - so that just about throws that idea out. I wish I knew whether I was going to hit 100' of clay past the gravel or if I would find another gravel layer. I have a good indication that it is probably just clay - especially around 25' down. We have an old, old creek on the edge of our lot that has dug itself about 15' below grade over the years and just stopped at some sort of semi-rock/clay layer. At the location of the proposed well, I have 25' before I reach that layer.

One of the messages mentioned that he had several of these shallow wells around his lot. If this one works well I plan on putting in at least one more. You can never have too much water, and electricity is cheap!

If I don't do this job within two weeks (not likely) the ground is going to be frozen and it will be very difficult to start the hole with a hand auger. I think it will be early spring before I can do the job. My spring TODO list is very full.

I worked another 20 minutes on getting that darn wellpoint out of the clay - using the front loader on the tractor. It can't be more than 10' down and it wiggles very easily. It is stuck - hard. The next time I try it I'm going to connect to the 3-point where I have more lifting power. The wellpoint was almost free and I have another one. I'm tempted to just unscrew the pipe off the wellpoint and leave it in the ground.

 

[centex]

You might try pumping water down the well point while you try to pull it.

 

[Egon]

Use water when digging post holes in hard clay.

Egon

 

[RonR]

We tried filling our clay post holes with water overnight--planning to dig them deeper the next day.

Only the next day they were still level full of water, just like we filled them.

Ouch!

 

[BBELL]

I'm not sure but isn't the trick to digging the hole with a post hole digger without getting bound-up is to constently go in and out of the hole to pull out the loose dirt. In order to do that the auger must come close the the top of the hole. So if your 20' down and you got a 4' auger with 4 more sections of shaft, won't that loose dirt pack in tight above the auger and in turn jam the auger in the hole? The water in the hole might be a good idea, it would keep the dirt soupy like mud.

 

[missourihick]

What iffin ya cut some 4" pipe into 6 foot sections(or whatever your tractor will lift) and weld you up a good heavy digging point for the bottom,it'd need to be somewhat bigger than the pipe..Cut holes for perforations in the first few sections and build an adapter to fit your gearbox on your digger to fit the pipe. It'd be alot of cutting and welding ,but I think it'd work. You could then fill the 4" pipe with water to lube the digging process. just my idea,might work.