Need tips for welding a gas tank

[monckywrench]

Putting water in the vessel, water is on the inside not out. No need for dive gear.
The hazard is still there, water inside or out. Underwater welding is a reference with more information to be had on the subject.

Negative. "Inside or out" isn't mentioned. That is a "link farm" reference with no information as to HOW hydrogen and oxygen are produced during underwater, which in English means "submerged in water", welding, not "very close to water but not actually IN it" welding.

They are generated by electrolytic dissociation of water by the electricity in the region of the arc, not by the heat of the process. Electricity isn't heat. There is plenty of superheated water (referred to as "steam") in industry and power generation, and it doesn't dissociate.

Electrolysis is basic high school science, folks.

 

[SPYDERLK]

You can weld the tank safely after cleaning by using a continuous air purge during the weld. Any fumes released will not build to ignitable concentration.
larry

 

[SPYDERLK]

I have made a few of those. I built a large one for a guy who used it on his diesel truck. Boy would that thing put out. He said it helped out 3-5 mpg. When he flipped it on, the rpm would jump. I figured it would be a wash though because of the alternator draw. He claimed it wasn't.

I have often wondered why they couldn't build a solar powered car that could be used to separate water into HOO, that could be collected to run an internal combustion engine? Anyone see a problem with this?

Takes a lot of electrical energy to break the molecule. And you dont get it all back when you re-oxidize the Hydrogen. Hard to store the gases too. Even if that were trivial, it takes a big solar cell to move a car -- esp to accelerate it. It would take a bigger one to run the car real time via electrolysis/Hydrogen. Storing the gases from an all day charge tho, would probably get you home at nite.
larry

 

[The Haymaker]

I dont think some peope can read or there is way to much information provided and it is confusing everybody.

Welcome to internet forums. Look at the entertainment we gave you though, all for far less, and in much more time, than it would take to repair or replace your tank.

 

[muddstopper]

So, you going to buy one from Walmart or weld the nipple on ??

Hold my Beer and watch this!

I have read all the replies here, and on other forums, where the subject of gas tank welding has came up. I Never rely on just one source for information. One common denominator it seems when it come to the gas tank welding is all the wantabe experts want to jump on the OP and try to prove how superior their own abilities are compared to the OP. I doubt if half of those wantabe experts have half the experience of the OP, At least the OP's had enough sense to at least ask how to do something instead of jumping in head first. As the Op of this thread, I havent learned much here about welding on a gas tank, not because opinions havent been expressed, but because I had already read many of the same or similar opinions on other forums. I realize the goal of many here is to help keep the Op from making a very possible deadly mistake, To those I sincerely appreciate your comments and help. To those that have posted the BS, trying impress others, or to beat on your own chest, your really just a waste of time and space. I suspect the ones that I have just offended the most are the very folks I am referring to, so I guess now I ready for the flame and burn.

 

[Egon]

Will 20 or so years preparing vessel'/pipes that have contained hydrocarbons for welding, or inspection be considered adequate experience?:thumbsup:

 

[boomer1025]

Hold my Beer and watch this!

No problem, I'll hold your beer, give it a whirl.

 

[rhett]

When water boils it releases Hydrogen Gas which is highly explosive.
If it collects in a pocket and a spark reaches it, well you get the idea.
That is how lead acid batteries can explode.
Purge with compressed air while welding after a good clean out.
Be careful and good luck

I should have said boils at a high enough temperature

Pretty sure that doesn't happen..

does

I am going to disagree with that statement, unless you can document some evidence to back that claim up.

see below

Ya boiling water lets off steam, not hydrogen. You get hydrogen when you pass electricity though water. So if you stuck the ground clamp and stinger in a bucket of water, then you could get some hydrogen, but welding on it might just make a bit of steam at most.

see below

Ok OK, Arc welding in water Does Produce Hydrogen Gas. My major slip for saying boiling water, I was out of line.

Well, the tank could blowup arc welding it with water in it. A wet arc does produce Hydrogen Gas.
Ok OK, Arc welding in water Does Produce Hydrogen Gas. My major slip for saying boiling water, I was out of line.

Was to Lazy to reference

I am going to suspect, but wont claim it as fact, that most hydrogen created while welding probably comes from the moisture absorbed in the welding rod flux and not in the moisture in the atmosphere or a puddle. Still water is water, whether it comes from the rod or for water put purposely in a container. As Myth busters would say, Plausible, altho in this particular situation, not entirely probable. I keep thinking about seeing people welding under water and not seeing any hydrogen explosions.

see post #20

I dont think some peope can read or there is way to much information provided and it is confusing everybody.

Any advise will be appreciated.

...^.

Negative. "Inside or out" isn't mentioned. That is a "link farm" reference with no information as to HOW hydrogen and oxygen are produced during underwater, which in English means "submerged in water", welding, not "very close to water but not actually IN it" welding.

They are generated by electrolytic dissociation of water by the electricity in the region of the arc, not by the heat of the process. Electricity isn't heat. There is plenty of superheated water (referred to as "steam") in industry and power generation, and it doesn't dissociate.

Electrolysis is basic high school science, folks.

see below

Hold my Beer and watch this!

I have read all the replies here, and on other forums, where the subject of gas tank welding has came up. I Never rely on just one source for information. One common denominator it seems when it come to the gas tank welding is all the wantabe experts want to jump on the OP and try to prove how superior their own abilities are compared to the OP. I doubt if half of those wantabe experts have half the experience of the OP, At least the OP's had enough sense to at least ask how to do something instead of jumping in head first. As the Op of this thread, I havent learned much here about welding on a gas tank, not because opinions havent been expressed, but because I had already read many of the same or similar opinions on other forums. I realize the goal of many here is to help keep the Op from making a very possible deadly mistake, To those I sincerely appreciate your comments and help. To those that have posted the BS, trying impress others, or to beat on your own chest, your really just a waste of time and space. I suspect the ones that I have just offended the most are the very folks I am referring to, so I guess now I ready for the flame and burn.

These are forums, individuals have opinion's and express them right or wrong.
The internet does have better sources for obtaining the facts.
This thread has remained on topic, even though a reference was taken out of context.
Advice of removing water before any welding or cutting on a vessel, tank, partially vented or sealed...etc is still advised.
I took the time to provide Wiki links partially backing up my minimal comments, as I am no expert just an aging f*rt that is lazy. Not as lazy as some though.

Thermolysis
Water spontaneously dissociates at around 2500 C

2500 Celsius = 4532 Fahrenheit
Oxy Acetylene = about 5720 Fahrenheit (3160 C)
Oxy Propane = about 5112 Fahrenheit (2822 C)
Molten Steel = 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit (1,539 Celsius)
Carbon Arc Torch = 6000 Celsius (10,800 Fahrenheit)
MIG Temperatures

Hydrogen production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thermal decomposition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It would have been nice if I was proven wrong. Even though the OP might not need the advice with his application, it is bad to misinform. This might be read by many and taken as absolute, which it is not, Please research yourselves do not accept opinions.
The hazard does exist and was the First topic covered in the classroom.
Jumping back into the deep end with a fistful of Broco rods! (cold but fun)

Be Safe
Good Luck

 

[deereman75]

I should have said boils at a high enough temperature


does


see below


see below


Was to Lazy to reference


see post #20



...^.


see below



These are forums, individuals have opinion's and express them right or wrong.
The internet does have better sources for obtaining the facts.
This thread has remained on topic, even though a reference was taken out of context.
Advice of removing water before any welding or cutting on a vessel, tank, partially vented or sealed...etc is still advised.
I took the time to provide Wiki links partially backing up my minimal comments, as I am no expert just an aging f*rt that is lazy. Not as lazy as some though.


2500 Celsius = 4532 Fahrenheit
Oxy Acetylene = about 5720 Fahrenheit (3160 C)
Oxy Propane = about 5112 Fahrenheit (2822 C)
Molten Steel = 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit (1,539 Celsius)
Carbon Arc Torch = 6000 Celsius (10,800 Fahrenheit)
MIG Temperatures

Hydrogen production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thermal decomposition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It would have been nice if I was proven wrong. Even though the OP might not need the advice with his application, it is bad to misinform. This might be read by many and taken as absolute, which it is not, Please research yourselves do not accept opinions.
The hazard does exist and was the First topic covered in the classroom.
Jumping back into the deep end with a fistful of Broco rods! (cold but fun)

Be Safe
Good Luck

The problem with this is that the water in the tank never will get this hot.. First of all you are welding a few inches away from the water. Second, the steel a few inches away wont be nearly that hot. Third, the water in the tank is keeping the piece cool. Basically, in theory, this can happen. In practice on this application, no chance what so ever.

 

[muddstopper]

It would have been nice if I was proven wrong. Even though the OP might not need the advice with his application, it is bad to misinform. This might be read by many and taken as absolute, which it is not, Please research yourselves do not accept opinions.
The hazard does exist and was the First topic covered in the classroom.
Jumping back into the deep end with a fistful of Broco rods! (cold but fun)

Be Safe
Good Luck

Maybe your intentions where good, but your delivery could use some work. You started out with a wrong statement, unintentional as it may have been, but then you tried to back your claim up with incomplete information that had nothing to do with the original topic and led others to believe I was doing something completely different than what i was attempting to do. I went from welding on the filler neck of a small tank to submerging myself in a swimming pool. I still aint figured that one out. Now you are wanting someone to prove you wrong. My point here I guess is that if anybody is going to make a statement or comment on a subject, they should at least know what they are saying or at least research the topic some themselfs before trying to give others the "Facts". I heard Moe did it this way, or My buddy did it once, or I think I read this someplace, doesnt qualify as useful information and only confuses the issue. Altho your turning water to hydrogen by boiling did make me do some more research, which is always a positive.

Nobody here knows anything about the other members other than what those members post in their profiles, and some folks even lie about that. I could lie about being a brain surgon and work at it, and probably convince some that I am what I am poseing to be. Of course others would see my terrible spelling and probably figure out I am lieing.
My point, a person might be a ex Navy Diver with years of experience welding underwater, or maybe not. I have no way of knowing one way or the other so i have to read what they have written, the way they wrote it, and then try to decide if they are being truthful. If they start out with wrong or bad information, it does little to give the rest of their argument any support and automaticly puts them in a position where they have to defend what they have said, right or wrong. Which I think is where you are at now by wanting someone to prove you wrong. Posting more information to prove your point, even tho it has little to do with the original topic. If i was going to be welding in a swimming pool, under water, your information might prove useful, I just dont see how it applies to this particular situation and it certainly confused the issue in this thread.


I am now going to change into my swimming trunks, we dont have a Y around here, but there is a deep hole down at the creek.