Need Help Defining Requirements

[nova3930]

Hello all, new member here in need of help defining requirements so I can start the shopping process.

Little background, I'm an engineer by training and have a decent background with machinery and equipment but not tractors and their use. Grew up a country boy and my grandfather was a dairy farmer so I'm not totally ignorant, just mostly so lol.

My wife and I have 16 acres that we're currently building a house on that I will need to keep up once we move in. Ground is basically flat. West property line is 1100 ft and change long and according to USGS has about 30ft of drop from North to South. Ground is very dry. I've seen it rain for a solid week and only about the top half inch is soggy, everything underneath is rock hard. Got probably about 12 inches of good topsoil followed by clay chert underneath. Ground has been farmed in some capacity or another since about 1848, most recently it's been leased for row cropping, currently with wheat.

Will have a small lawn area around the house of about 1 acre that I'll likely buy a regular residential mower for.

About 4 acres between the house and road will be in between pasture and lawn, kept short but not lawn quality, with a small fruit orchard on part of it. I'm thinking a finish mower would be useful here.

Rear eleven acres will be pasture, needing to be cut with a bushog. Thinking I may eventually run some goats and cattle in a mini-farm setup. Probably require some spraying of fence rows and such as well.

Wife has said she'd like to have a garden at some point too.

Now I have a Mustang skid steer loader, with bucket, forks, hydraulic auger and concrete bucket that my grandfather gave me before he passed away. With that setup I'm pretty sure I don't need a front end loader on the tractor.

So most of my use is cutter, finish mower, tiller and maybe a disc.

Given the above can I get some guidance on the following so I can start narrowing down by brands and models:

What HP range?
2WD or 4WD?

Depending on the answers to the above I might drift towards finding a good used tractor. Right now I'm not looking for any advice on models or brands, just what requirements the tractor must meet. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[HEC]

I always recommend 4wd , you should do fine in the 25 to 30 hp range as long as you keep your equipment properly sized . I would probably stay away from a gear tranny seeing as you will be useing a tiller , alot depends on soil type . A disc can require some pulling force so 4wd would be a must with a light weight tractor . You may want a single bottom plow to turn over the soil prior to tilling , again soil type and condition . I use a plow , spring tooth harrow , and disc for my garden. I am looking into a tiller now which would elimanate the disc in my case .

 

[nova3930]

I always recommend 4wd , you should do fine in the 25 to 30 hp range as long as you keep your equipment properly sized . I would probably stay away from a gear tranny seeing as you will be useing a tiller , alot depends on soil type . A disc can require some pulling force so 4wd would be a must with a light weight tractor . You may want a single bottom plow to turn over the soil prior to tilling , again soil type and condition . I use a plow , spring tooth harrow , and disc for my garden. I am looking into a tiller now which would elimanate the disc in my case .

So the tiller and disc are the big drivers in this case? If they require some pull would it hurt to go bigger on the hp side?

 

[murphy1244]

I would go with a old 2 wheel drive 8n or a massey 135 or such.

 

[deerseeker001]

Welcome from Wisconsin

 

[jeff9366]

The Three Point Hitch, invented by Harry Ferguson between WWI and WWII, made the modern light-weight tractor possible. The next great advance was 4-WD. You need both.

Shop for a tractor with a Category '1' Three Point Hitch for which implements, both new and used, are widely available.

Shop for a tractor with at least 12" of ground clearance.

Hydraustatic, three-range transmission is relatively easy to learn and practical for 16 acres. With max torque at low speeds and the ability to move forward at very low speed, this is the optimal transmission to use with a roto-tiller.

30 to 35 horsepower should be ample if you also have at least 2,600 pounds tractor weight.

With these specs you can pull a 5' Rotary Cutter, a 5' PTO powered tiller and a Disc Harrow with 18" or 20" diameter pans.

You probably will not need both a PTO powered tiller and a Rotary Cutter. They are both tillers.

 

[murphy1244]

The Three Point Hitch, invented by Harry Ferguson between WWI and WWII, made the modern light-weight tractor possible. The next great advance was 4-WD. You need both.

Shop for a tractor with a Category '1' Three Point Hitch for which implements, both new and used, are widely available.

Shop for a tractor with at least 12" of ground clearance.

Hydraustatic, three-range transmission is relatively easy to learn and practical for 16 acres. With max torque at low speeds and the ability to move forward at very low speed, this is the best transmission to use with a roto-tiller.

25 to 35 horsepower should be ample if you also have at least 2,600 pounds tractor weight.

Why do you think he needs 4 wheel drive? His place has been plowed since 1848 and not probably with a 4 wheel drive tractor.

 

[jeff9366]

Good point, Murph------.

I guess I have to make myself invisible again.

nova3930: Ample tractor weight is crucial with 2-WD; at least 2,900 pounds.

( When I was first tractoring, on a John Deere/Yanmar 750, 4-WD kept me from getting stuck on MANY ocassions. Keep 4-WD in mind, as a lower priority. I used 4-WD today, 'hogging through dense Carolina Jasmine, on level ground.)

 

[murphy1244]

Good point, Murph------.

I guess I have to make myself invisible again.

nova3930: Ample tractor weight is crucial with 2-WD.

Jeffy------Not being a smart azz I was just wondering... I have a old Massey and not much stops it and I have a 8 speed trans.

 

[nova3930]

Ok you guys are kinda confirming some initial thoughts I had. I started out this process browsing used tractors and the 2wd models seemed the most affordable even in late model and I wasn't really seeing the advantage of 4wd on dry level ground.

What would be considered ample weight for say a 30hp 2wd tractor? How about a 40?

 

[jeff9366]

Keep rubbing it in, Murph-------- and I will drop you from our Christmas Card List.

Inform nova3930 what your Massey-Ferguson 135 weighs.

I expect the 4-WD is engaged most of the time when you are operating the Kioti.

I like my 4-WD tractor. We have a 4-WD Subaru too. 4-WD Rocks!

 

[murphy1244]

Keep rubbing it in, Murph-------- and I will drop you from our Christmas Card List.

Inform nova3930 what your Massey-Ferguson 135 weighs.

I expect the 4-WD is engaged most of the time when you are operating the Kioti.

I like my 4-WD tractor. We have a 4-WD Subaru too. 4-WD ROCKS.

I rarely use 4 wheel, Off the list I spouse....

 

[murphy1244]

Ok you guys are kinda confirming some initial thoughts I had. I started out this process browsing used tractors and the 2wd models seemed the most affordable even in late model and I wasn't really seeing the advantage of 4wd on dry level ground.

What would be considered ample weight for say a 30hp 2wd tractor? How about a 40?

3700Lbs is the weight of a 135 plus loaded tires would add 1000+ more

 

[nova3930]

3700Lbs is the weight of a 135 plus loaded tires would add 1000+ more

So 80-100lbs per HP would probably be a good rule of thumb.

Last night my uncle informed me there's an old Case 990 left over from the dairy farm sitting at my grandparents old place. Unfortunately he said the engine block is cracked and it's been sitting uncovered for nearly 20 years. If it had at least been sitting in the barn it might be restorable assuming I could get parts. Since it's been sitting out, I could probably get a running tractor for less than restoration cost....

 

[jenkinsph]

I would look for a 50 hp tractor with 2wd that could pull a subsoil plow, heavy brush cutter and disk. If buying new something similar to a Deere 5045E with 4x4 would be a good choice. I would not buy a new 2wd tractor today in this size, while it may work for you it would be harder to sell or trade later.

For the lawn mower which will get more use on a routine basis get something good enough to last and cover some ground quickly. I would put a good percent of the budget in this machine as it will be used on a weekly basis.

 

[HEC]

Level ground or not I would never buy another 2wd tractor , in your case you may only need 4wd on rare ocasions but when you do you have it to get out of sticky situations . I had a 50 hp case tractor many years ago and with good loaded ag tires and it would have a very hard time doing some of the things I needed to get done or just couldn't do them . I use 4wd a good part of the time and I am on level ground also your situation may be entirely different then mine . As far as going bigger with more HP that is your choice for sure . I had a little L235 ( 23 hp range ) and that would run a tiller with no problem at all . If it was new ground I would plow first . I made the big mistake of selling the 235 and tiller several years ago . I have been useing the disc but a tiller does a much better job of preparing the seed beb in my opinion . Good luck with your choice as there are so many out there with many different opinions .

 

[nova3930]

Thanks for all the input everyone. I'm getting some more things to think about.

Another wrinkle that I've thought about. If I go on the smaller end of tractors, I can utilize the pull behind finish mower to do 90% of my mowing, even in the immediate area around the house, then use the nice lawnboy mulching push mower I bought when we inhabited a subdivision to do the rest. I think I could easily get within 10 ft of the house with the right sized tractor and finish mower and then the rest should be easily done with the push mower.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

If your subsoil layer is that compacted, you may want to think about busting it up with a subsoiler to allow the rain to penetrate instead of running off. Those things take a lot of power. A 30hp tractor will probably handle one with a single ripper and even then might struggle depending on your soil, the tractor weight and the type of tires it has (ag vs R4's).

I'd think about going up to a 40hp+/- size. The good news is that used 2wd tractors without FELs are relatively cheap because most people these days want 4wd and a FEL. The bad news is that there aren't that many used 2wd tractors without FELs (at least around my area).

 

[Gary Fowler]

If you only have 10-12" of topsoil and then solid rock, I don't think you would do well to use a subsoiler. Likely it would just pull up a bunch of rocks that you don't want. I used to use a disk to break up my soil and it still has a place in preparing the pasture for seeding when you don't want to kill the existing grass, but a tiller makes a very good seed bed for a garden without any clods to interfere with planting. A 30-40 HP tractor in either 2 wd or 4 wd will do all that you need done especially since you say you never have any wet areas to negotiate. I like the 4 WD myself as you can use a much smaller HP tractor to propel the same implement as a larger tractor pull with just 2 WD especially in the new CUT tractors. They are so much lighter than yesterdays old iron machines that you really need 4 wd to effectively use the HP that they have. A 50 HP CUT may not weigh more than 3000# or even less where as an old iron machine in 50 Hp would be pushing 6-7K without weights but in 2 WD because it needed all that weight to pull ground engaging implements. As for tillers and mowers you don't need traction for those just PTO power but tillers don't require a lot of power to turn just need lift capacity in the 3 PH to be able to pick them up.

 

[nova3930]

If you only have 10-12" of topsoil and then solid rock,

It's not really solid rock. Maybe I wasn't terribly clear on that point. 10-12" of good topsoil (old river bottom the old timer I bought the property from said), then it gets to be a red clay/chert mixture. From what the neighbors have said, bedrock is probably 30+ft down...