Backhoe Need help choosing a backhoe

[sweetjeep]

Hey folks,

I need some help picking a backhoe. I have a Deere 4720 and at this point my choices are between (basically) 3 hoes, the Deere 448, a Woods and Bradco. I don't know which specific model numbers for the Woods or Bradco.

I have used quite a bit a brand new Woods BH80X on a New Holland TC40, and I have been utterly and completely UNimpressed. It's done the job, but been very weak. It's not terribly strong and doing certain tasks, like digging stumps (which I have a lot to dig) is a bit of a chore.

Can anyone shed some knowledge or opinions?

Also, is there any way to boost the power to the backhoe? I also have a 1948 (or so) Massey TO(something) with an integrated backhoe. It's only about a 25 hp tractor but the backhoe has MUCH MUCH more power than the newer Woods. Someone briefly explained that the pump on the old Massey is a crank driven pump (or something to this effect) and therefore it's is able to deliver more pressure than the cam (?) driven pumps on the new compacts. Anyone know that answer?

 

[dfkrug]

It is really about force, not power.

If you expect a compact tractor hoe attachment to be anything
like an integrated hoe on a heavy industrial tractor, you will be
disappointed.

About the highest hydraulic pressure you will see on a compact
tractor hoe attachment is about 2500psi. Industrial machines can
be considerably higher. (Industrial tractor guys, chime in here.)
Take a look at the cyl diameters and the dipper stick ratios, too.

Many compact tractors only deliver 2000psi or so, so even if your
hoe relief is set higher, you are limited to 2000psi in those cases,
unless you get a PTO pump.

Finally, stump removal is prob the hardest thing to do with a hoe,
requiring the greatest forces.

 

[gamble77]

Of those choices I would choose the Deere. curved boom, power beyond power, and the best attachment frame of all the units.

 

[IslandTractor]

For that size tractor, shouldn't you be considering the Woods BH90x? Also consider the benefits of a thumb which can be factory ordered with or without hydraulics on the Woods.

 

[FULLPULL]

I will agree any back hoe added on a tractor wont compare to a industrial bachoe. It is alot in how you run them and your needs . We have a bradco it seems to dig fine on a skid steer but they set it up with good hydraulics . I looked at the woods backhoes they seem like there built strong . I will agree the curved boom would be one to look at. And you got some more good advise get the strongest subframe you can get for any of the units. I would talk to the dealers and make shure it will fit your tractor and dont affect the warantee if you use a other brand. Someone here had a bh80x Woods and took it back and traded for a bh90x and said there was alot of difference between the two .

 

[sweetjeep]

If you expect a compact tractor hoe attachment to be anything
like an integrated hoe on a heavy industrial tractor, you will be
disappointed.

About the highest hydraulic pressure you will see on a compact
tractor hoe attachment is about 2500psi. Industrial machines can
be considerably higher. (Industrial tractor guys, chime in here.)
Take a look at the cyl diameters and the dipper stick ratios, too.

Since you mentioned it.. what is the story in PTO driven hoe? I was told that they are the worst of all.

Or are you talking about running the hoe off a specifically seperate PTO driven pump? Honestly, something I had considered for running a log splitter too.

The old Massey is far from a construction grade machine. It's a farm tractor with a permanant backhoe, but I do understand what you're getting at.

Fullpull/IslandTractor: I just generalized with the 80 as it's what I have access to and frankly, I ASSUMED the 90 was the same thing only with a 9' dig depth. But I'll take a specific look at the 2 and see what the differences are.

It's not the quality of the Woods that's a problem, it's the capability that I am not impressed with. Although it does have a mechanical thumb, and I can see where a hydro thumb would be very very beneficial.

Thanks for the help so far!

 

[FULLPULL]

I dont know how many gpm your tractor has but what i would do is call all three manufactures . Bradco gave me some advise a few times on getting the right unit for the application. Woods and John Deer would do the same. The 509 Bradco seems to have alot of power for digging . If your tractor can be hooked up with out a pto pump it will save you some money but if you need the pto pump get it setup right the first time. There are some other members with backhoes that can tell you more about it.

 

[dfkrug]

Or are you talking about running the hoe off a specifically seperate PTO driven pump?

Yes, lots has been written on TBN on the subject of using a PTO pump
vs. the tractor's hyd system to power the hoe. Your tractor has plenty
of hyd flow to run one of these hoes, if you get a remote valve or
power beyond setup. You also have an oil cooler if you have HST on
your 4720.

All the brands you mentioned have subframes for their hoes and many
JD CUTs, so that is good.

Weight of the tractor is an issue. A backhoe attachment that easily
drags the tractor around will not be as capable as the same one on
a heavier machine.

 

[shaley]

The 90/9000 has 3" cylinders. Quit a bit more power. What size does the industrial unit have? Also, I seen alot of units with the relief set at 2000 vs the correct 2500psi.

 

[nightrodjc]

I have a JD 4510 with a 9' bradco, it seems to be a well built hoe. I picked it up on ebay for 2500.00 in good shape.

 

[Bob_Young]

The BH90X is pretty capable; I like mine. The heavier your tractor the better.

Stumps of any size can be a fight. The effort seems out of proportion for what's actually achieved. Starting to believe my tree guy is right: "Grind 'em". Snatching out the smaller ones isn't bad.
Bob

 

[sweetjeep]

I'll definately check out the PTO pump discussions.

I also, it would appear, need to see the BH90 in person. A friend has a Bradco 509, and it is significantly more a machine than the BH80. Embarrasingly so.

But a couple folks suggest the 90 is a better piece. The specs on the Bradco equipment is quite a bit better than the Woods as well. Granted, I know it's all a game of numbers, but there has got to be a little truth hiding as well.

In my case of the stumps, nope, there will be no grinding. It's removal or removal.


Then again, this all may come down to price too!

 

[richtidebruin]

SJ,

If your main goal is stump removal, you may want to closely look at bucket size.

I have been drooling for a BH80 for my TC 34, and in my research came across comments advocating use of 12" buckets for stump removal b/c it was much easier than the std 18" material bucket.

My dealer had a very slightly used NH 757, at a great price... but I like the permanent Woods subframe. So storage space is also big consideration for me.

Rich

 

[3RRL]

I think Dave is right in that the 3pt hoes are not going to be as powerful as you expect. I have a 7-1/2' Nardi J-220 and my friend has a similar size Bradco. They seem to be pretty much equal in performance. Nevertheless, neither are like a dedicated TLB industrial strength hoe. Mine is PTO driven pump and his is plumbed to the tractor hydraulics. It all depends on what the psi and the size of the cylinders you have. I usually slow the tractor rpm down a bit since I don't need the fastest moves which is what more flow will give you.

One thing I would recommend is to be sure to get an 8 or 9 footer. Not just for added strength or digging depth, but for reach when trenching. I found even mine lacks the reach I wanted and I find myself constantly repositioning. My tractor is a 55hp Kama and could easily have handled a larger capacity hoe.

The other thing is that you'll need to figure out the best way to make it perform for you. Especially for stump digging. The suggestion of using a smaller bucket is a good one. You'll find it can dig more aggressively and get better penetration. If you really need to rip out roots and dig out rocks around the roots, maybe a backhoe ripper like this would be the solution. I could see that coming in handy when digging out tree stumps.

 

[IslandTractor]

The other thing is that you'll need to figure out the best way to make it perform for you. Especially for stump digging. The suggestion of using a smaller bucket is a good one. You'll find it can dig more aggressively and get better penetration. If you really need to rip out roots and dig out rocks around the roots, maybe a backhoe ripper like this would be the solution. I could see that coming in handy when digging out tree stumps.

I have a Woods BH90x and am looking to get a ripper just like that for stump pulling. For 6-12 inch tree stumps I find that if I can break the lateral roots I can tip the stump out of the ground without really digging it out. If I had a ripper I could do that with very little disruption of the land compared to what happens when I perform these steps with a 18 inch bucket. I contacted Woods and they don't make or offer a ripper but they did send me the bucket dimension drawings so I can have one fabricated. BroTek can do it and I might go that route if I don't find a simple local solution. I'd love to do it as a project myself but don't really have sufficient metal working skills at this point (though embarassingly I do own all the necessary equipment )

 

[wedge40]

I have a Woods BH90x and am looking to get a ripper just like that for stump pulling. For 6-12 inch tree stumps I find that if I can break the lateral roots I can tip the stump out of the ground without really digging it out. If I had a ripper I could do that with very little disruption of the land compared to what happens when I perform these steps with a 18 inch bucket. I contacted Woods and they don't make or offer a ripper but they did send me the bucket dimension drawings so I can have one fabricated. BroTek can do it and I might go that route if I don't find a simple local solution. I'd love to do it as a project myself but don't really have sufficient metal working skills at this point (though embarassingly I do own all the necessary equipment )

I have drawings/plans for a backhoe ripper tooth under build-it yourself. They have been updated since I posted them cause I need them detailed enough to take to a welder and fabricate the ripper tooth. I dont have my backhoe right now (being painted) so there are few dimensions that are swags.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/112103-backhoe-ripper-tooth-again.html

I plan on having this made sometime this winter, so once the ground thaws I can start playing. I have some stumps that are almost 26" that I want to remove. Ya Ya .. rent a stump grinder.

There was a previous post TBN about a home-made ripper tooth that gave me most of my info.

 

[IslandTractor]

Thanks Wedge, I'll look up that thread. The Woods bucket mount drawings are precise enough that the only thing I really need is to figure out whether the ripper tooth itself should be fabricated or just to use a box blade ripper. It is not exactly a precision piece of equipment so I imagine someone with a plasma torch and grinder could make a ripper tooth in about half an hour.

 

[wedge40]

Thanks Wedge, I'll look up that thread. The Woods bucket mount drawings are precise enough that the only thing I really need is to figure out whether the ripper tooth itself should be fabricated or just to use a box blade ripper. It is not exactly a precision piece of equipment so I imagine someone with a plasma torch and grinder could make a ripper tooth in about half an hour.

Islandtractor.. I'm looking at getting some teeth off ebay, but I'm still trying to figure out what it really needed. I see that they have teeth and they have "shanks" Right now I'm under the assumption that you weld the shank onto the implement then mount a tooth over that. Correct?

 

[IslandTractor]

Islandtractor.. I'm looking at getting some teeth off ebay, but I'm still trying to figure out what it really needed. I see that they have teeth and they have "shanks" Right now I'm under the assumption that you weld the shank onto the implement then mount a tooth over that. Correct?

I think the "teeth' you are looking at are probably the replaceable teeth for backhoe buckets etc. I don't know how necessary those are for a simple ripper tooth. The rippers used on box blades may not be deep enough (front to back) to be easily stabilized for the forces that a backhoe could put on them. I'd image that bending will be a problem unless they are sandwiched between two hefty plates.

The more I think about it I believe that a ripper tooth could just be cut out of a single piece of 1/2 inch steel and then have some sacrifical cutting pieces welded to either side of the business end. I don't really see a ripper as being something that gets used 8hrs a day and as it is mostly just in topsoil and tearing up wood roots, wear may not be such an important consideration. I posted a diagram of a ripper on your other thread but will repeat that here. I don't think this would be difficult at all to fabricate and could be close to trivial for a shop with a CAD system plasma cutter and any 220v welder. I'd think about 1/2 mild steel (??maybe more)would provide sufficient material strength for an 18 inch ripper for my Woods BH90x but that is just guess.

 

[hayden]

I'll definately check out the PTO pump discussions.

I also, it would appear, need to see the BH90 in person. A friend has a Bradco 509, and it is significantly more a machine than the BH80. Embarrasingly so.

But a couple folks suggest the 90 is a better piece. The specs on the Bradco equipment is quite a bit better than the Woods as well. Granted, I know it's all a game of numbers, but there has got to be a little truth hiding as well.

In my case of the stumps, nope, there will be no grinding. It's removal or removal.


Then again, this all may come down to price too!

I think with backhoes the specs tell an important story. I've used woods and kubota backhoes ranging from 6.5 ft to 9ft and just recently got a Bradco 511. There is just no comparison, and the difference is reflected in the digging force specs. Backhoe attachments on tractors will never match a TLB, but the Bradcos come pretty darn close, adn do match the power of some of the new smaller TLBs from Kubota and JD. I think a Bradco 509 or 511 would make you very happy.